How important is Made in the USA to you

[Greg Karol]

Hey all,
I have been thinking about this alot reciently as I walk through the stores and see almost 90% of products say made in China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, etc. This made me start thinking about how I would love to see more products made in the usa but how is this effecting us as consumers. It has become an obvious and accepted fact that it is more cost effective for companies to make things overseas but at what cost? Many things that come over have proven their quality while many have not.

I guess I am just conflicted because as much as I would like to see something made in the USA i would also not like to pay a small fortune for it.

To give a specific example. We all liked the old PM66 and Unisaw and they have lasted forever (Made in the USA). But now many people are happy with the PM 2000 and Sawstop; both made overseas. Would you pay more if a saw was made here with similar quality or is the price more important then buying domestic products?

[Mike SoRelle]

Hey all,
I have been thinking about this alot reciently as I walk through the stores and see almost 90% of products say made in China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, etc. This made me start thinking about how I would love to see more products made in the usa but how is this effecting us as consumers. It has become an obvious and accepted fact that it is more cost effective for companies to make things overseas but at what cost? Many things that come over have proven their quality while many have not.

I guess I am just conflicted because as much as I would like to see something made in the USA i would also not like to pay a small fortune for it.

To give a specific example. We all liked the old PM66 and Unisaw and they have lasted forever (Made in the USA). But now many people are happy with the PM 2000 and Sawstop; both made overseas. Would you pay more if a saw was made here with similar quality or is the price more important then buying domestic products?


I think this is the age old issue as it relates to offshore production, and while there might be people willing(and/or able) to pay the premium, clearly there's not enough or it wouldn't have wound up offshore in the first place.

I think the bigger issue (as someone pointed out in another thread, I don't recall which one) is the QC/QA that's being applied to the products being produced OCONUS, the same inspection process that worked for a product being produced in the US probably won't work for the same product being manufactured elsewhere due to the low margins involved for all parties.

[Ken Werner]

Quality is important. Until recently, made in USA implied a better quality than made overseas. But not so much anymore. I would love to buy an American vehicle, but I don't see the reliability coming from the big 3 that Toyota/Honda/Nissan have acheived. More and more items made in China are now well made.

As for hand tools, I much prefer made in USA, but that too is becoming harder to find. Unless you're going with LN, [or LV from Canada.] I bought a Milwaukee router kit. One base made in USA, the plunge base in China.

I think there are many hidden costs in the bargain prices we pay for items made in China, not the least is the loss of jobs and prosperity in this country.

Just my $.02.

[Jeff Duncan]

I go for the best product I can afford, usually it's made overseas, the catch is that there are many places within the term "overseas". European manufacturers make a lot of quality machinery that easily surpasses the quality of most remaining made in USA products. If we're just talking about woodworking machinery then Northfield is one of the few remaining manufacturers of real quality in this country.
I think as pointed out your question has been answered already by the masses. If you have the choice for your shop of buying a $2k Powermatic drill press made in the USA, or a $700 version made in Asia, which one are you going to buy? My feeling is that Asian countries are blamed unfairly for inferior quality. It's the company that puts there name on the product that determines the quality. If Powermatic or Delta or any other company has something made offshore, a major part of the process is building to a price point, ie. this is how much we want to pay for x product. I believe many of these manufacturers have the capability of producing a product equal to any other, it's just about how much that products going to cost.
JeffD

[Mike SoRelle]

Quality is important. Until recently, made in USA implied a better quality than made overseas. But not so much anymore. I would love to buy an American vehicle, but I don't see the reliability coming from the big 3 that Toyota/Honda/Nissan have acheived. More and more items made in China are now well made.

As for hand tools, I much prefer made in USA, but that too is becoming harder to find. Unless you're going with LN, [or LV from Canada.] I bought a Milwaukee router kit. One base made in USA, the plunge base in China.

I think there are many hidden costs in the bargain prices we pay for items made in China, not the least is the loss of jobs and prosperity in this country.

Just my $.02.

I think for alot of things, we don't pay what we realistically should, clothes washing machines are a good example, the prices now are similar to the prices 20 years ago, however, they haven't gotten any cheaper to make (quite the opposite) so the quality of the components and the 'quality' of the people putting them together have lowered to offset that. It's not uncommon to see 20 year old washers still running strong, it is however uncommon to buy a brand new unit and not have some sort of material failure in 5 years or less.

We get what we pay for and people aren't willing to pay for what they want. Pretty soon, it won't matter what you're willing to pay because there simply won't be anyone making them to the same standards because that business model isn't sustainable.

[jason lambert]

I agree with Ken, USA use to be synomous with quality. Not so anymore. I simply look for the best I can justify and buy it, doesn't matter where it is made although with all else equal or close I will go with us made. Most of my shop is not US made :( We simply are not as innovative as some other countries, it is to hard to protect what you make we have laws but it slows things down and production cost is high (probably due to the exchange for years but that may change now).

[Randal Stevenson]

I had some old sockets that were my grandfathers. They were USA made and pot metal. Not everything ever made over here was great, let's not kid ourselves. Those were traditionally the first things exported (pay less for junk).

With metal and its shipping costs going up, it may become feasable to make things over here again before long. Probably just get moved to Mexico.

But as this could EASILY fall into a political subject, and get vaporized, all I am going to say, is

The next time you buy an American flag, look at its country of origin!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

First,

Let's try to keep this from getting political...I'd hate to have to move the thread.


2nd. The LOML will fly a flag until all of our soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are out of harms way. The last flag I bought was made in the USA. Yes....I did pay more for it.

I'm not the only Mod watching this thread...Please keep politics out of it.

[Mike Henderson]

I think for alot of things, we don't pay what we realistically should, clothes washing machines are a good example, the prices now are similar to the prices 20 years ago, however, they haven't gotten any cheaper to make (quite the opposite) so the quality of the components and the 'quality' of the people putting them together have lowered to offset that. It's not uncommon to see 20 year old washers still running strong, it is however uncommon to buy a brand new unit and not have some sort of material failure in 5 years or less.
Actually, the design of top loading clothes washing machines has changed quite a bit. In old washing machines the power source was a single speed motor. All of the washing and spin functions were implemented through belts and a transmission.

In a new top loading washer, that's all gone. The design uses an inverter motor and electronics similar to a variable frequency drive (VFD). The electronics is integrated into the motor. There's one belt from the motor to the wash tub.

To wash, the electronics drives the motor in one direction, at slow speed, then reverses the motor and drives it in the other direction at slow speed - and repeats this process.

Draining the tank is done by a separate, small motor integrated into the pump.

And while I don't understand the engineering, old washers would often get out of balance on the spin cycle and stop. The new washers essentially never get out of balance on the spin cycle.

So what's happened in top loading clothes washers is that we've subsituted low cost electronics technology for mechanical devices which has made the washers cost less to manufacture, we have improved the functionality inlcuding making them more efficient in water and power, and we have reduced their price in inflation adjusted dollars.

A pretty significant accomplishment in my book.

Mike

[Mike SoRelle]

First,

Let's try to keep this from getting political...I'd hate to have to move the thread.


2nd. The LOML will fly a flag until all of our soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are out of harms way. The last flag I bought was made in the USA. Yes....I did pay more for it.

I'm not the only Mod watching this thread...Please keep politics out of it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't really see how this is a political issue. I think it's more of societal issue and our mentality of being accustomed to paying less for a perception of more.

At the end of the day you can warp anything into a political problem, but often I think that's just a way of diverting attention from the real issues.

Of all the 'Made in the USA' items I have, I'd bet most of them were not made with domesticaly sourced materials. the more global an economy gets the tougher it becomes to lay the issues with items at the door of the country in which they were assembled, at some point, you have to hold the people specifying the construction accountable for the corners they have requested/allowed be cut.

I once purchased a 'Made in the USA flag' and then noticed the origin of the components, http://www.fmaa-usa.com/madeinusa/certification_program.php has a list of sources that comply with the 'Certified Made in the U.S.A.' program that specifies domestic origin for all components used.

[Ray Gardiner]

It's a worldwide thing, manufacturing moves to where the cheapest labour costs are. Shareholders demand profits. Australia is no different. A lot of Australian Manufacturing has moved offshore to China, India, Indonesia etc.

Specialist wood work suppliers, like Carbatec, Timbecon etc.. are all importing "Badge Engineered" products that look identical to some of the US brands. I have a workshop full of Chinese made stationary machines. Quality is generally pretty good, but I expect to refine/tune/adjust/modify as required.

Bottom Line:- Most consumers buy on value for money, not just the cheapest.

From the viewpoint of an "Local Manufacturer", there are only a limited number of ways to compete against cheap imports. Price is not one of them.

[Prashun Patel]

'made in the usa' doesn't indicate quality anymore.
brand doesn't mean much anymore either.
There's just too much competition and information in the world. You can find better Chinese manufacturers than some US manufacturers and some crappy German products.

The 'best' product varies each year. There's no substitution for researching and finding reviews of each product at a particular point in time.

[Matt Bickford]

It has never been a factor in any buying decision I've ever made. I can't imagine the circumstances in which it would.

[Mark Springer]

I always try to buy as much quality as my budget will allow. Sometimes that is Made in the USA sometimes it is China. I prefer to buy things manufactured here in the states in order to support the American work force which brings that money directly back into our economy. But lets be honest in todays market place and with the rapid pace of globalization it just isn't possible to solely buy domestically made products anymore unless you have a lot of money laying around.

Someone mentioned the quality of the American cars. Ford was recently rated as high as Toyota for quality and customer satisfaction so there have been improvements.

[Joe Pelonio]

In many cases you think you are buying US Made and are not. My Ford Ranger, for example, has an engine made in Germany, the transmission in France.

[Peter Quadarella]

Along with globalization is coming a glut of low cost human labor. This is driving down the value of labor (as low as it already was). Do we really want to be a country full of people with jobs that are being devalued? Also, who thinks that working in a factory is someone's idea of a dream job? In my opinion, with our higher cost and standard of living than somone in rural Asia, we need jobs that are valued higher, and besides, we want ones that are more fulfilling. Given this, why would we want to continue the old way of Americans on an assembly line?

Let most stuff be built overseas if that's the way it's going to be. Let's become more highly trained and find our niche in unique, quality goods, management, and innovation. It's a painful transition, but I don't feel there's any point in fighting it.

This is not to say that I think everything should be built on foreign soil. If you look at Festool, you see a manufacturing business model that works with a more highly paid labor force. Also, there will always be some things that make sense to be built geographically closer.

There's 1 of my 2 cents :D

[Dennis Peacock]

I buy based on American made and purposefully LOOK for items that are American made. BUT....if the product isn't as well made as one that is made in Korea (for example), then I purchase the best made. If it has "made in China"??? I do not buy it....That's just my stand these days.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

When the USA returns to it's roots as the world's premiere manufacturing destination maybe it'll be meaningful again.

[Prashun Patel]

I think in OUR lifetimes, we'll see the rest of the world become better at manufacturing before the US returns to its roots.

In my kid's lifetime, after the long 40 year economic slowdown and death of the US as the world power, then Americans will bootstrap their own country back to dominance as only hungry, meritocratic Americans can.

Sorry for the politics.

Read somewhere that the fall of all great economies is marked by a transition from manufacturing hard goods into economic goods. The dominance of the Citibanks and Merrill Lynches of the world mean it's a time for Rome to start burnin'.

So, when the best thing you can buy from a US tool manufacturer is insurance for your Chinese tablesaw, you'll know it's time to batten down the hatches.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

... who thinks that working in a factory is someone's idea of a dream job?

It's more of a matter of necessity versus a dream. For example, I often dream of being a mattress tester at the Sealy Posturepedic factory. However, I understand the pay is lousy. :)

Society is diverse and not everyone is destined for great things. Considering the status of our educational system and our immigration flux, those decent factory jobs that have been outsourced need to come back, or things needs to change.

However, at this point, 'buying American' has become moot. The horses are not just out of the stable, but they crossed the pasture, jumped into the ocean, and swam eastward.

-Jeff :)

[Pat Germain]

Someone mentioned the quality of the American cars. Ford was recently rated as high as Toyota for quality and customer satisfaction so there have been improvements.

Indeed, I understand the new Taurus, previously the "500", to be a very good car. Interestingly, Ford didn't really do anything to improve their passenger cars until people stopped buying them, and then stopped buying SUVs as well when gas prices spiked.

Thus, whether it's cars or woodworking machines, I think it's best to buy a quality product at a good price. If it's made in the USA, so much the better. But buying junk out of loyalty doesn't pay.

I have a friend who strongly believes we should always buy cars made in the USA. She got mad when I suggested her Eagle Talon is a rebadged Mitsubishi; which goes to show it can be hard to buy "Made in the USA" even when you try.

[Jim Becker]

Since I sell globally, it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to avoid buying globally. I do appreciate it when I can buy something I need that is also made in North America. I didn't say USA, because a lot of the remaining manufacturing on this continent spans the US, Canada and Mexico for any number of reasons, but made in USA is nice when it's available. I can't really avoid China either, as it's currently the most lucrative market for new business in my industry...the number of of my colleagues in that patch has grown from about a dozen to many hundreds in what seems like almost over night. That said, no matter where something is made, I'll always choose quality over anything else.

I was pleasantly surprised today that the two brands of ZTR mowers I'm considering as an alternative to using the mid-mount mower on my Kubota tractor are both made in the USA. That was nice to learn.

[Tom Godley]

My family WAS in the manufacturing business. For so many products the percentage of labor in a finished product relative to the ability to mark up that labor in the product determines the final manufacturing location.

I remember being told -- "always follow the shoe business". The making of shoes contains a very high percentage of unskilled labor that then becomes skilled to make shirts then coats and other higher skilled goods. Thirty years ago I remember being on a plane with a sneaker maker going to China from Korea - he was complaining about the high Korean costs-!!

I always try to buy a US made product if I can - I am one of those label flippers. With everyday consumer goods it is a shock when I see "made in USA". I never shop at Walmart for the reasons in this thread

I was talking with another guy on a plane who designed gasoline "leaf blowers" - handheld not back-pac. He told me they can deliver them to the US for about $12.00 each-!! They sell for the $70.00 range -- my jaw dropped! No way we could or would want to compete with that.

I worry most about the primary education system in this country>

[Larry James]

RE: National Geographic - May, 2008.

% of the world's umbrellas made in China - 70
% of the world's buttons made in China - 60

% of the U.S. shoes made in China - 72
% of the U.S. kitchen appliances made in China - 50
% of the U.S. artificial Christmas trees made in China - 85
% of the U.S. toys made in China - 80

% of unsafe toys recalled in the U.S. in 2007, including Thomas the Tank Engine, that were made in China - 100

Number of months a Chinese factory would need to work to earn the cost of a Thomas the Tank Engine train set - 6

Level playing field come to mind?

For woodworking, I try to buy U.S., Canada or EU when I can. Companies like Lee Valley, Hartville Tool, Woodpecker, Kreg, Whiteside, and others that mark country of origin. I'll pay more if the quality is there.

Larry

[Brian Elfert]

To many folks, a good factory job is a dream job. Auto workers used to make upwards of $29 an hour. How many jobs that require minimal schooling pay that well?

[Anthony Anderson]

If it has "made in China"??? I do not buy it....That's just my stand these days.

Dennis, I didn't know that it is possible to completely stay away from "Made in China". How do you achieve that? I also purposefully LOOK for "Made in the USA", but find it impossible to exclude "Made in China". I do not exclude "Made in China", because it is just a fact of life, when purchasing goods these days.

[Steven Hardy]

http://www.manufacturing.net/News-US-Tops-In-Global-Competitiveness.aspx

[Kyle Kraft]

Let me tell you a story about my Whirlpool Duet washer..........

[Bob Moyer]

I remember a sign in a company I worked for.


QUALITY - LOW PRICE - FAST DELIVERY

You can only have two!!!

[Greg Karol]

I figure since I started this discussion I should add something more to it. I support quality products and American companies. The thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that the companies which contract their manufacturing overseas are still American companies which employ countless workers. Everything from engineers and marketing to custodians and facility people.

Since made in china is such an abundance I look to buy products where the parent company is here. The other fact of that is I would like to see a "designed in" label on things. There is a big difference to me if something is made and designed in asia vs. something designed in the us and made in asia.

On an interesting note, there is a trend to bring manufacturing for complex and high tech components back stateside, if nothing else to stomp out the clones and "ghost shifts" that plague many industries and cut into their bottom line. If you look at the iphone for example, while some of the components are made overseas the main electronics board is made here, to curb the clones that would hit the market otherwise.

[Bob Moyer]

Having worked in manufacturing my entire life, this is an area where I have a lot of experience, many disappointments; loss of income etc.

I remember when Wal-Mart advertised "Made in America"; I remember the days when every article of clothing I wore; was Made in America.

I worked for Fruit of the Loom and Hanes, and did cost studies on imports vs. made in U.S. I remember the quality on the first imported goods was so bad, we actually dumped them on 3rd world countries.

I remember because we added silk-screening to items, we cut out the made in (fill-in the blank country) and sewed in a processed, packaged, or assembled in America label.

I remember one division of a company that began in importing with only a handful of people; we signed contracts with Wal-Mart and K-Mart and did all the manufacturing in the U.S.; only to be forced in to lowering our prices to the point where 1000's of people lost their jobs when we again needed to import goods.

Sorry for the rant.

[Jim Becker]

Good point, Greg. I sorta eluded to that in the case of my own company, which sources/manufactures globally as well as sells globally. We are based in New Jersey. Our top competitors are based in San Jose CA and Ontario Canada...and to a certain extent, Redmond WA. All of these companies also source/manufacture/sell globally. And all have extensive human resources based here in North America.

I have seen in my trade magazines what you mention about the trend to bring some manufacturing of "stuff" back to North America for the reasons you state. But hardware is less of a factor in "tech" these days...software rules the roost and there is still a major movement of development resources to other parts of the globe, largely for cost reasons since customers for the technology insist on getting more and more for less and less...this is an ugly cycle and in many respects, "we" are all to blame when we individually ask the question, "What/where can I buy ____ the cheapest?"

[Dennis Peacock]

customers insist on getting more and more for less and less...this is an ugly cycle and in many respects, "we" are all to blame when we individually ask the question, "What/where can I buy ____ the cheapest?"

Ouch! That statemt (I took out the reference of technology) hurts, but is the real truth to the cause and the result. :o

[Chris Padilla]

It's a global economy, Folks. Simple as that. Borders don't mean as much as they used to in this regard. Buy the best you feel, hope it lasts, prepare for the worst. :)

[Richard Kee]

I've not been a radical "Buy American" person, and I do have a couple of Jet products in addition to my made in America Delta equipment. However, when the Economic Stimulus Package was announced, I decided that it was meant for American economy and I made immediate plans for an American-made Oneida Cyclone, that is now operating in my basement workshop.

Richard

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Made in the USA by ____________. (I'll let you fill in the blank.....I don't want to get censored). :rolleyes:

OK, now that I've spread my hate and discontent for the day I'll withdraw. :D

[Steven Hardy]

I've not been a radical "Buy American" person, and I do have a couple of Jet products in addition to my made in America Delta equipment. However, when the Economic Stimulus Package was announced, I decided that it was meant for American economy and I made immediate plans for an American-made Oneida Cyclone, that is now operating in my basement workshop.

Richard

I agree with you there. I bought a US made Whites metal detector and a Digital Antenna cell phone repeater with my check. I havent played with the detector much(it looks excellant)...but I must say the US made repeater is by far,the best quality electronics I have seen in a LONG time.

[Frank Guerin]

We want a good retirement, a 401K, a dream of security in our later years that someone had to pay for but we don't want to pony up for the next generation. Stock holders want more for there investment, we want "the best tool at the best price" so we keep lowering our standards for the sake of the almighty buck. America was once the leader in take home pay and quality with products that lasted. Unfortunately WE want it cheaper, faster, and we don't care if general labor in this great country is on the bread line or working jobs with no benefits. We don't want to drive any distance to pick up old iron and rebuild it. We want it delivered with a tailgate lift, put in our shop and if possible set up by someone.
Instant gratification. What would our forefathers think.
And the worst part is how many people trully even try to buy American?

[Daniel Berlin]

Quality is important. Until recently, made in USA implied a better quality than made overseas. But not so much anymore. I would love to buy an American vehicle, but I don't see the reliability coming from the big 3 that Toyota/Honda/Nissan have acheived. More and more items made in China are now well made.

Toyota makes most of their cars in America, whereas the big 3 make most of their cars outside of the US.

(Soon, however, Toyota's biggest plant will be in Canada. They actually felt it was too hard to train american workers compared to the canadian workers.)

[Stephen Edwards]

I have seen in my trade magazines what you mention about the trend to bring some manufacturing of "stuff" back to North America for the reasons you state. But hardware is less of a factor in "tech" these days...software rules the roost and there is still a major movement of development resources to other parts of the globe, largely for cost reasons since customers for the technology insist on getting more and more for less and less...this is an ugly cycle and in many respects, "we" are all to blame when we individually ask the question, "What/where can I buy ____ the cheapest?"

Jim has "hit the nail on the head here" in regards to the tech aspects of outsourcing.

I'll give you an example. My brother needed some software written for a web based, start up company that he was just beginning. He sought bids from Amercian software programmers to write this particular piece of software that he needed. He received bids ranging in price from $10,000-$80,000. Thinking that price was a bit high, he expanded his search to include programmers abroad. He found a company in India that agreed to do this project for $900.00. They did an excellent job and have since done four more projects for him.

Another example that I personally know of are Search Engine Optimzation (SEO) companies. I know a SEO guy from Holland who now lives in the Philippines. He hires a staff of people with computer science degrees whom he pays the equivalent of $8.00-$10.00 per day. For his employees, that's a good middle class salary in many parts of the Philippines. And, they are good at what they do.

There is no way for American companies to compete with those prices for those services. Period. For other American companies, being able to outsource their technical needs is what allows them to exist as a company here in the USA.

As others have pointed out, we live in a global economy now. This isn't about politics, this is about economics.

Respectfully,

[Pat Germain]

Sometimes US companies don't even want to try. Example: I'm a stockholder in The Walt Disney Company. Years ago, Disney was launching their cruise line and, as I heard it, asked several US shipbuilders to submit bids for two ships. They all declined. They didn't even consider it. So, Disney had the ships built overseas. Disney is now building two more, much larger ships. Again, they are being built overseas.

Also, buying old, American iron may be very satisfying, but it doesn't do anything more for the economy than buying a '69 Chevelle. I suppose if you buy some replacement parts, and the parts are made in the US, that would be helpful. I just ordered some parts for my Campbell Hausfeld air compressor, but I doubt that will keep the company in the black for the quarter.

FWIW, I like to buy old American iron, but it's typically hard to come by in my area. I'd have to drive to California.

[Jesse Cloud]

Its interesting how my attitude toward quality/price has changed over the years. I used to shop Home Disappointment and Amazon sales for most of my stuff. Most of it broke or went out of adjustment so often it was a hindrance rather than a help. So I bought one router after another and the router I use now, if you include the cost of all those bargains that are now in the junkpile, is at the tail end of maybe $1,000 worth of routers. I kick myself for not spending $300 or so for a good one many years ago.

With the economy going the way it is, I'm not going to be able to continue to buy a lot of tools, so my philosophy now is to buy only quality tools and hope they last as long as I do.

I would dearly love to buy American but, except for a few companies like LN, nobody is making anything I would trust to last.

[Clara Koss]

Hey all,
I have been thinking about this alot reciently as I walk through the stores and see almost 90% of products say made in China, Japan, assembled in Mexico, etc. This made me start thinking about how I would love to see more products made in the usa but how is this effecting us as consumers. It has become an obvious and accepted fact that it is more cost effective for companies to make things overseas but at what cost? Many things that come over have proven their quality while many have not.

I guess I am just conflicted because as much as I would like to see something made in the USA i would also not like to pay a small fortune for it.

To give a specific example. We all liked the old PM66 and Unisaw and they have lasted forever (Made in the USA). But now many people are happy with the PM 2000 and Sawstop; both made overseas. Would you pay more if a saw was made here with similar quality or is the price more important then buying domestic products?
if we buy made in usa then americans make more money from their jobs and making more money can buy more usa products...if we buy made elsewhere then americans have no jobs and eventually will not be able to buy even the imports...BUY MADE IN THE USA!!!!:D

[Steven Hardy]

if we buy made in usa then americans make more money from their jobs and making more money can buy more usa products...if we buy made elsewhere then americans have no jobs and eventually will not be able to buy even the imports...BUY MADE IN THE USA!!!!:D

There are some countries that do a balanced trade with us and support global trade and all the benefits it does for poverty around the world....and then there are countries that year after year rack up a massive trade deficit with the USA and with other smaller countries around the world.They practice predatory trade practices,do not honor patents and copyrights ,and care little about consumer safety. I go to great lengths to avoid buying their products because I simply do not want to contribute to the new world disorder. It really shouldnt be hard to figure out which two countries I avoid buying from.
What they do to the USA..they do to other countries.
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/top0711.html
The big hoopla in wood working right now is SawStop...I would like to start a "pool" for how long it takes before the technology is "borrowed" and sold around the globe. That will be comical to me.

[Rick Gifford]

The original question is How important is Made in the USA to you?

My answer is it is important enough to specifically search for those products, but not so important to go without a product when the price is too much or the quality lacking.

If I can buy USA without sacrificing reliability and spending more than I can afford I will every time.

But most of this discussion takes the path of China goods, and their history of inferior products.

China and Taiwan are usually the targets of discourse.

I dont feel bad if I am buying from Canada, England, France etc. but I feel like a sellout if its from China or Taiwan.

Regardless of where it is made, if the quality is poor I refuse to buy it at any price.

I own SawStop and it is excellent quality yet made overseas. I have a local Harbor Freight store I cant stand to go in often because I get disgusted with all the junk quality made in China tools.

So basically I will shop quality over origin. I will try to look for USA items if possible. It is getting harder to stay USA products anymore.

[Mark Kosmowski]

Regarding the Chinese boycotting - the next time you're out on a road trip, try to find out what the supply chain is for that diner you're having breakfast in.

What does "Made in the USA" even mean anymore? Do the subassemblies need to be made in the US? Raw materials? Or is it just that the corporate officers need to be in the US?

Part of the reason my car is a Toyota is because I felt that my purchase would put more money in the hands of US workers. I don't care where the rich suits live, I want to know where the worker bees live.

[Rich Schneider]

I do consider it when I'm making a purchase...sometimes it is difficult to overcome the price differences (a recent example was when I bought a hot melt glue gun the other day...US made hot melt glue gun is $16.00 whereas the import is under $5.00 for basically the same thing..quality was about the same, features the same, etc)...I bought the US one anyway, debating my choice all the way to the checkout)..the question I always ask myself when confronted with this dilemma is "Who are my customers? Where do they live? Who is most likely to buy my products? Who ultimately pays my bills? Where do they get their income from? Where does the "value added" money go?". The irony of all this is that the US worker is not the only one faced with the stress of "foreign" competition. I was looking at new 8" jointers a while back...what caught my eye was this one very popular manufacturer/importer had two machines with nearly identical specifications, but the two were $300.00 different in price (about 30%). I contacted the company and inquired as to what the difference was and why the price difference? The customer service person told me straight out that the units were basically the same, but the higher priced one was made in Taiwan, whereas the cheaper one was made in China..they were in the process of switching their product lines from Taiwanese manufactures to Chinese manufactures due to cost competition.....

[Michael Gibbons]

I don't think that the U.S. public had anything to say about the whole deal. The big companies were looking for ways to make more profit which just happened to involve moving production to other countries where labor cost were much lower. The consumer still needed the products so we didn't have anything to say except "How Much"? Once we became accustomed to paying less, the downfall of American industies were inevitable and it just snowballed from there. I really can't think of anything we need from any other country that we can't make here or have made here at one time or another.

[Mike Minto]

not very important to me. tired of being used, lied to and overcharged by businesses, american included. mike

[Greg Peterson]

It's a moot point. Consumers have little control or power of influence on the retail side. More than enough people shop at Walmart to effectively cancel out any Buy American drive. The die is cast and overcoming the inertia of the marketplace is unlikely.

Investors, that would be you, me and any body else that has stocks (401k....) have far more control over how these corporations operate than consumers do. Don't like the profits your stock generates by a company that is manufacturing overseas? Pull your shares.

We got just exactly what we asked for deserve. Low prices.

When there is a reasonably priced choice, I will buy American made.

We as a nation are really not all the interested in keeping our dollars close to home. At least not enough of us.

[Denny Rice]

I agree with Ken, USA use to be synomous with quality. Not so anymore. I simply look for the best I can justify and buy it, doesn't matter where it is made although with all else equal or close I will go with us made. Most of my shop is not US made :( We simply are not as innovative as some other countries, it is to hard to protect what you make we have laws but it slows things down and production cost is high (probably due to the exchange for years but that may change now).

I have to disagree with you Jason, America is probably the MOST innovative country on this planet. I will say America has allowed itself to lower its standard of living today vs 50 yrs ago due to the stagnet wages employeers pay American workers adjusted with inflation compared to 30 to 50 yrs ago. NAFTA has killed our economy, we need to make China play on a leveling playing field if they want to do business with the USA. American companies need to realise that shareholders are not the only concern they have, they need to care for their workers as much. Americans use to buy TV's that lasted 20 years and could be fixed, now you keep it for a couple of years and throw it away, a good example of this is an Asian built USA named vacuum cleaner purchased by my wife last year, a switch was broken on this unit, we tried to get a replacement switch (2.00 part) but the company has discontinued any parts for this model. We just purchased a new vacuum cleaner made in the USA with a 10 yr warranty. AS far as American laws that slow things down here in America thank God I don't live in China with all that smog and polluion in the air (the Olympics are a good example) on an average day you cannot even see the birdsnest due to their lack of pollution control laws.

[glenn bradley]

Consumers demand quality at a low price. American workers demand higher wages and more benefits. Do the math. We can sometimes be our own worst enemy. I treasure my quality America made tools and products. Few of them were made in the last 30 years or so unfortunately. We still turn out some great stuff. A lot of it isn't carried at Wal-Mart or Costco. I seek them out when I can.

Given a choice I would buy American. Given a choice I buy from merchants in my community . . and so on.

[steve reeves]

Labor costs, compliance costs (the vast miriad of federal and state regulations) taxes and greed (on both sided) have driven these jobs overseas in the beginning.

In the beginning it was american owned companies building plants on foreign soil... these goods were still of good quality and allowed the companies to keeps prices low while at the same time increasing profits which of course keeps the shareholders and the upper tiers of management happy as their huge bonuses and stock options kept flowing.

Then some of these countries saw that they were getting their workforces basically trained for free... the governements and or entrepreneurs within those countries started opening their own factories or increasing their productivity and quality within their own factories in order to keep the back side profits within their own borders.

We gave them the opening by opening the doors as result of many international trade agreements. These agreements were all driven by big business interests in their search for more profits.

Labor has and had it's own contribution. Unions demanding ever higher wages and benefits programs for what was and is essentially nothing more than general labor. The corporations caved into these demands time after time and were eventually forced to move jobs elsewhere. It's still happening everyday around the country. The local bottling company here just finished a protracted strike.... when it was all over and done the guys went back to work minus their company paid retirement program and a 3% raise... I don't begrudge anyone for making every penny they can make but 20 bucks an hour to load and unload trucks? What ended that strike was the company started hiring replacement workers the day the strike started at $10 an hour.... I don't care how long you've been loading trucks, if it's a $10 an hour job then it is what it is.

I know those guys have families to feed, cars to pay for, mortgages etc. but we've become a society that thinks flipping burgers should come with the ability to make new car payments and pay the mortgage on a $200,000 house....

On the other hand, companies have gone much to far in distancing themsleves from their employees. Most employers simply don't give a damn about you so long as you're there on time and assemble the correct number of widgets during your shift or load x number of trucks etc.

The disconnect between the worker bees and the suits has never been larger and continues to get worse.

One huge difference between the US and most of the rest of the world is executive compensation... while the worker bees are lucky to get 3-4% raises the upper tier of management are demanding and getting 10-25% pay raises not including the "incentives" and perks that are already rediculous.

European and asian managers make no where near what their american counterparts do... not even close. Further, they generally work longer hours and are held to tighter standards.

So in my opinion greed on both sides was the harbinger of these issues developing and politics gave them the avenue.

We've become a "me" society that demands instant gratification... instant fixes.. yet we created the problems that need fixing right here.

[John Schreiber]

We've become a "me" society that demands instant gratification... instant fixes.. yet we created the problems that need fixing right here.
The problem is well stated.

Solutions? (I don't have them either.)

[Neal Clayton]

how important? not at all.

i prefer european/japanese to american even.

[Darryl Hazen]

FWIW, I like to buy old American iron, but it's typically hard to come by in my area. I'd have to drive to California.


All that "old American Iron" from scrapped autos made in the USA gets shipped to Japan and comes back here as Toyotas, Nissans & Hondas. :D

[John Schreiber]

All that "old American Iron" from scrapped autos made in the USA gets shipped to Japan and comes back here as Toyotas, Nissans & Hondas. :D
I wish. More of it goes to China and never comes back.

[Jim Becker]

All that "old American Iron" from scrapped autos made in the USA gets shipped to Japan and comes back here as Toyotas, Nissans & Hondas.

They probably don't need to ship it...all three manufacture in the US at this point...much of their lines, at least.