Steel City Cabinet Saw Disappointment

[Andy Sipila]

After a lot of searching for a used Powermatic 66, I finally decided I couldn't wait anymore and bought a new Steel City 35630. This is their standard cabinet saw with the titanium-nitride coated top. The saw arrived well packed and seemed in good condition. Upon unpacking I found that one of the extension wings had two pretty big gouges in it well through the coating and into the casting and the mounting tabs on one of the support legs for the extension table was badly bent. As I mentioned the packaging was in good condition so I believe the saw was shipped with these defects.

After a call to Steel City's parts department they said they would promptly ship me replacement parts. Their customer service was very good. All they requested was that I e-mail them pictures of the damaged parts. If these were the only problems, I would be satisfied with the product I purchased.

I was too impatient to wait for the replacement parts so I decided I would assemble the saw with the bad wing and replace it when the new one arrived. During assembly and set-up I found that the miter slots on the table were about .017 out of parallel. Then I plugged the saw in and was rewarded with a motor that barely turned and then promptly tripped the 20 amp breaker in my panel. Steel City's parts department is closed for the evening so I will have to contact about these newest problems tomorrow.

I'm just a little disappointed in the overall quality of this product and wonder what further gremlins await me. However, with as good as customer service has been so far I'm sure I will be taken care of.

Anyone else have this sort of experience with Steel City?

[David DeCristoforo]

I don't think there is a company in the world with whom someone somewhere has not had a similar experience. It bites when you are the one who gets the "lemon" but this is a reputable company and I'm sure they will make it right. As to your electrical issue, are you sure you have the motor and circuit hooked up correctly? Both 220?

[Sean Kinn]

Seems like this is becoming more common with a lot of the manufacturers lately....more items slipping through QC at the factory that should have never been packaged up for shipment. Steel City will take care of you no doubt...still a bummer when this happens though.

I don't want to name the company, but I received a machine that should have never left the factory due to a laundry list of issues. In the end, the company more than took care of me, but it sure was a bummer after saving up my $$ and waiting for it to arrive.

[Tom Veatch]

... Then I plugged the saw in and was rewarded with a motor that barely turned and then promptly tripped the 20 amp breaker in my panel. ...

I've had items arrive with dead start capacitors more than once. If the motor/arbor turns easily by hand, and you're absolutely sure the power supply is the correct voltage (220, I presume), a new start cap is usually a lot less difficult to replace than the entire motor - assuming they don't ship you a whole new saw.

[Andy Sipila]

The motor turns over easily by hand and the voltage is correct. I checked it with a meter and plugged my planer into the same outlet to be sure.

Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?

Thanks for the quick responses.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?"

I always tell people not to "split hairs" when it comes to this stuff but I usually draw the line at around .015 which is right close to 1/64th of an inch. After that it can become an issue. So I would think that you have a legitimate concern. I would say that with all of the other issues, ("badly bent", "gouged", "won't run") you would be perfectly within your rights to ask for another machine. That's all a bit much to accept on a brand new "top quality" (and not cheap) machine.

[Mike Goetzke]

Andy - The problems you have uncovered so far are beyond cosmetic. I think you should have the saw returned for a replacement or refund. From your comments with all the problems you have found even if you get replacement parts it's always going to worry you "what's next." I know I'd be pretty upset right now if I were you.

Mike

[Chris Barnett]

Nothing was wrong with the money you paid for it! Get a new saw or ask for a return authorization and go Griz (they have steel motor covers, not plastic). Mine was perfect.

[glenn bradley]

Definitely not what I am used to hearing folks say about their SCTW machines. I had to swap a cast iron part three times before I was satisfied on one purchase. The manufacturer was all over the problem and emailed and called repeatedly to be sure things got taken care of. It took a little time on my part but they compensated me financially and I am completely satisfied. I probably would be just as satisfied without the price adjustment but it was a nice gesture.

With the list of issues and the variety, I would sleep better with a whole new machine. Someone in QA was on break when that one went by. I would just never feel right about it. YMMV.

[Eric Mims]

I have a similar Steel City saw that I got cheap (freight damaged, name plate had been knocked off...) Saw is perfect.. wings needed adjustment and top needed adjustment to be parallel to slots, but once I had it set up it was perfect. I really like it.

[Tom Veatch]

The motor turns over easily by hand and the voltage is correct. I checked it with a meter and plugged my planer into the same outlet to be sure.

I'm probably sensitized to the start cap situation, having had to deal with three of them in three different machines in the last 6 months, but that would be my "go-to" solution for the starting problem.



Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?


Can't say whether or not it's normal. I've never checked mine. You didn't say, but I'm assuming that measurement is a Total Indicator Reading (TIR) from one end of the slot(s) to the other. If the slots are in the neighborhood of 26-28" long, which is pretty standard, then that's about .008 per foot which doesn't sound quite as bad. I suspect that after your blade/arbor/fence is aligned with whichever slot you'll be using the most, you won't notice the difference as long as you're only using one of the slots at a time.

But, and it's a pretty big one, if you ever decide to build a dual runner sled, you could have a binding problem that's hard to fix without a very sloppy fit of the runners in the miter slots.

All told, I agree with David and the other responders. You've reported sufficient damage and other discrepancies with the saw that I doubt you'll ever be really happy either with it or with the amount of time and labor you'll have to invest to bring it up to the standards it should have had when it was unloaded from the truck. In your place, I'd be lobbying for a complete replacement and return of the pile of scrap iron that was shipped to you.

[Bob DeWolfe]

I have just taken delivery of a SCTW saw as well. Everything seemed fine when the saw was uncrated but the main table and one wing looked and felt as they had not been ground/polished after the machining. A call and email were answered the next day and a tech came out Wednesday of last week to replace both. The wing he brought was not flat (dipped 15 thou in the middle). He explained that 6 thou was acceptable and he left and brought another back on Friday and completed the reassembly.

I found that the customer service was very good at working with me to set this saw right. Count me a pleased customer.

Having worked in China for a tool manufacturer I can assure you that quality control is good with most North American companies but not every unit can or does get inspected.

I believe Steel City will do everthing possible to correct the problems.

[Mike Gabbay]

Not to rub salt into the wounds... this is why I bought a General. They are one of the few manufacturers that really check out their equipment before it ships.

If you are getting tools that are obviously not inspected then I would say the QC process that the manufacturer is using has failed. Why would we spend thousands on something and expect that customer service and a rebuilding process is in order to get what we paid for? If you bought a $2,000 flat screen TV and it did not work would you try and rebuild it or have the manufacturer/retailer replace it? If it happened more than once would you stay with the manufacturer or buy something else?

I'd return the saw and get a General, PM, or Jet. You don't hear as many issues with these saws.

My grumpy 2 cents! :)

[Sean Kinn]

Having worked in China for a tool manufacturer I can assure you that quality control is good with most North American companies but not every unit can or does get inspected.



I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

[Joe Jensen]

I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

I think the Branded supplier gets what they pay for. If SC wanted 100% inspection, they could get that. Too many Branded suppliers go offshore and look mostly at price, or they go with the same sampling plan they used here. There are many examples of companies in emerging economies cutting corners everywhere to win on price. In my professional life I am constantly amazed at the low margins manufacturers will accept in China. Distributors of electrical components in China routinely take 1% markup, where their American and European competitors walk from less than 8%. As a result, there is a culture where if the branded company doesn't specify, and inspect, every detail, then the Chinese company will cut a corner there. I go to China several times a year, and there are factories manufacturing motherboards there that are state of the art in the world. With the right specs and rigorous testing, one can get absolutely great quality product. This is however more expensive that the typical output from China. I also believe that one factory in China will supply the exact same machine in different colors to different customers. But, they will supply them to different levels of outgoing inspection and different levels of precision. Take a table saw for example. There are many aspects of the trunion that depend on tight tolerances in machining to get consistent blade to table parallelism no matter what blade height or angle. Errors for this are compensated for with shims between the cabinet and the table, but these shims only split the errors so it's 1/2 one way and the 1/2 the other. Now back to the manufacturing line. They make table saws for 10 companies, all on the same line. One company has tight specs, and they want 100% tested. 100% of theirs will meet the tight specs. The ones that fail the tight specs will get used in the other 9 companies machines. Same manufacturing line, but different quality levels. Now, the same applies to bearings, electrical components, motors, etc. In china you can clearly get different grades of motor that would all look identical. Heck, China can make clones of anything that look idential to the original, they can easily do different grades of motors. Look at the rash of bad start capacitors lately on this forum for a number of machines. Do you think that all capacitors are created equal? Here is another example. Years ago my kids had those small keychain size electronic pets. The toys took 3 watch batteries. The toy only cost $5, but within a month, the batteries died. Replacement batteries in local stores were $5-10ea. I was complaining to a seat mate on a flight, and he laughed and said that his company qas buying 55 gallon barrels of watch batteries in China (untested) for $50. He said they look identical to standard watch batteries, and most work for a while, but none work for a long time.

Moral, if you don't rigorously spec quality and materials, and test them at a very high sampling rate, quality will be low. Basically, you get what you pay for.

[Sean Kinn]

I think the Branded supplier gets what they pay for. If SC wanted 100% inspection, they could get that. Too many Branded suppliers go offshore and look mostly at price, or they go with the same sampling plan they used here. There are many examples of companies in emerging economies cutting corners everywhere to win on price. In my professional life I am constantly amazed at the low margins manufacturers will accept in China. Distributors of electrical components in China routinely take 1% markup, where their American and European competitors walk from less than 8%. As a result, there is a culture where if the branded company doesn't specify, and inspect, every detail, then the Chinese company will cut a corner there. I go to China several times a year, and there are factories manufacturing motherboards there that are state of the art in the world. With the right specs and rigorous testing, one can get absolutely great quality product. This is however more expensive that the typical output from China. I also believe that one factory in China will supply the exact same machine in different colors to different customers. But, they will supply them to different levels of outgoing inspection and different levels of precision. Take a table saw for example. There are many aspects of the trunion that depend on tight tolerances in machining to get consistent blade to table parallelism no matter what blade height or angle. Errors for this are compensated for with shims between the cabinet and the table, but these shims only split the errors so it's 1/2 one way and the 1/2 the other. Now back to the manufacturing line. They make table saws for 10 companies, all on the same line. On company has tight specs, and they want 100% tested. 100% of theirs will meet the tight specs. The ones that fail the tight specs will get uses in the other 9 companies machines. Same manufacturing line, but different quality levels. Now, the same applies to bearings, electrical components, motors, etc. In china you can clearly get different grades of motor that would all look identical. Heck, China can make clones of anything that look idential to the original, they can easily do different grades of motors. Look at the rash of bad start capacitors lately on this forum for a number of machines. Do you think that all capacitors are created equal? Here is another example. Years ago my kids had those small keychain size electronic pets. The toys took 3 watch batteries. The toy only cost $5, but within a month, the batteries died. Replacement batteries in local stores were $5-10ea. I was complaining to a seat mate on a flight, and he laughed and said that his company qas buying 55 gallon barrels of watch batteries in China (untested) for $50. He said they look identical to standard watch batteries, and most work for a while, but none work for a long time.

Moral, if you don't rigorously spec quality and materials, and test them at a very high sampling rate, quality will be low. Basically, you get what you pay for.


EXACTLY!! Thank you for adding to this. This is exactly the sort of stuff I'm referring to. It's happening in the auto parts markets too. All sorts of parts that look identical to the originals are coming out of China (and other countries) that are not made to tight tolerances of the oem part. Heck it might be the same plant that made the oem part, but they are now re-branding the rejected oem parts and selling them on the gray market. Many times, you can even see where a person took the time to scratch out the original logo on the part.


OK, rant over..thanks for listening ;-) I have no problem with SC or China, I'm really just becoming frustrated with the state of a lot of the goods circulating in the global econmy. Time to go hug my vintage Uni.

[Peter Quinn]

Not to rub salt into the wounds... this is why I bought a General. They are one of the few manufacturers that really check out their equipment before it ships.

I'd return the saw and get a General, PM, or Jet. You don't hear as many issues with these saws.

My grumpy 2 cents! :)

When I bought my PM 66 5 years ago it came with a final inspection tag showing the vital stats of each check that had been done in Tennessee proir to shipping (motor/switch wiring, motor runs, miter slots parallel and any deviation, tables and wings checked for flatness, blade parallel to miter slot and any deviation, etc.) It was an eight or ten point check list with the inspectors name and the supervisors signature on it. I was impressed, and their stats were dead on. The machine was basically perfect, and if it wasn't I had the name of the individual responsible for final inspection to begin the repair claims process with.

I know of others that have had a less positive experience with PM in recent years, and many changes have occurred across the market in the last decade, but even if part or all of a machine is made off shore, what is stopping the seller from performing final inspection/repair here in the good old USA? Are you listening MANUFACTURERS? Perhaps they could offer this as an upcharge service "For an extra hundred bucks, we'll open the crate and make sure your machine actually works!" Uh...sarcasm....

I recently purchased a Laguna slot mortiser made in China, and I ordered cutters to go with it. The salesman told me "We will ship your cutters in the crate with your machine to avoid separate shipping charges if you like". I asked "will that be a problem having you uncrate the machine just to put in my cutters?" He told me "We uncrate, inspect and recrate all machines from over seas anyway, so putting your cutters in the crate is no problem." NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

If a manufacturer ships me a machine with major mechanical defects that they have clearly not bothered to inspect they may lose my future business and they can come get/fix the machine directly. All this talk about "We'll send you the parts" is crazy. I have not and will not perform maintenance or repairs on a brand new machine under warranty myself. I am fairly mechanically inclined, but if I wanted a fixer upper or a basket case I'd buy one and pay accordingly.

I'd reserve your serious disappointment until they have made an attempt to remedy the situation. I also wouldn't be afraid to remind them while you have their attention that this situation was avoidable, is in no way your fault or responsibility, and may weight heavily on the decision to purchase or recommend their machines in the future.

[Ted Torres]

Ordered a 7-drawer sheet metal work bench that came in 2 large boxes. One box contained the 7 drawers, of which 5 had badly bent drawer faces. The other box contained the sheet metal pieces and laminate top...3 of the 4 horizontal channel supports were bowed bad with twisted ends! :eek: Actually, everything was well packaged and protected and the boxes were in Perfect Shape, so factory QC must have been on a Holiday at the time.

Not cool and Certainly All Parts were packaged "As Is" with damages like this (can't blame the shipping companies on this one)!!!

The vendor offered to take it back, but since I had 1\2 of it together (erector set assembly), I straightened up most problems and got the unit in the shop...but it was aggravating. :mad:

Ted




I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

[John Thompson]

Not to rub salt into the wounds... this is why I bought a General. They are one of the few manufacturers that really check out their equipment before it ships.

I'd return the saw and get a General, PM, or Jet. You don't hear as many issues with these saws.

My grumpy 2 cents! :) ..... a poster


**************

And one could hardly argue that The General (not General International which has numerous issues) doesn't have many issues as they are quality controled at the factory and very well built indeed. But one could not argue that the base model equilavent is $1000 more than the saw that was purchased and the deluxe 650-T50 is more than a $1000.


If I pay mid 2.5 K for a saw.. I hope they have gone over it well as reflected by the price. I have a friend that is an installer for General here in Atlanta and it is highly tauted by many cabinet shops and commercial ventures. But.. it has issues as any machine and that's why they have a service department to deal with them


I will bite my tongue on the statement of the PM and Jet not having "as many issues" as the saw purchased just to avoid an argument in general. I spend 8-10 hours a day in my shop running 3 Steel City machines where Jet and PM also reside. I post on 3 forums and again would hold that statement suspect.. highly suspect!


Now.. I have to go down and get to work using machines as I do daily. BTW.. I recieved all three SC's in excellent condition.. set them up and put them to work over a year ago. I did replace a start capacitor on my BS which was a 10 Amp and would trip the circuit. The problem was idenified by SC and the latter BS's now have a 20 A capicitor. A replacement with apology was sent to me the same day by CS to get my saw running.


Other than that which is minor IMO, all the machines have performed extremely well regardless of where they were made and how well they were quality inspected before they were crated.


So... we all have an opinion based on whatever I suppose....

Sarge..

[glenn bradley]

I will bite my tongue on the statement of the PM and Jet not having "as many issues" as the saw purchased just to avoid an argument in general. I spend 8-10 hours a day in my shop running 3 Steel City machines where Jet and PM also reside. I post on 3 forums and again would hold that statement suspect.. highly suspect!

I understand Sarge. A coworker of mine thinks all Fords are perfect and all Chevys stink. Comments like you are referencing come from the same sort of mindset. Now let me see if I can dig up that review where General got blasted for horribly awkward blade changing acrobatics on that cabinet saw . . .

But, back to helping the OP . . many folks have worked through issues with PM, Jet, Delta, SCTW, etc. (including General). I agree with others (and repeat myself) that a full exchange would sit best with me.

[John Thompson]

Thanks Glenn... and with that I will go down for a pleasant day and evening of WW in the shop with a mix of machines that are not top of line Mercedes in quality, but give quality results regardless. :D

Regards...

Sarge..

[Joe Jensen]

Just to clarify, I'm not indicting all imported machinery. I am just saying that the quality of an import machine depends on what the branded company specifies, and measures.

Take the case of tainted wheat gluten (pet food issue last year). In the end, the investigation determined that the supplier was "spiking" the product with plasticizer (poisonous chemical) because it made the low quality wheat gluten test like high protein wheat gluten. So, even when the customer tests the product, suppliers pushed only for price can try to find ways around the test...joe

[David DeCristoforo]

OK, so here it is... the next day. Andy, have you contacted SC on this issue? I'm curious as to how they will deal with you. To me, the most important product any company has to offer is their service. I would love to know how this "shakes out"...

[John Thompson]

I'll second David as to the outcome as I'm certainly curious.

But.. I read your statement that your miter slot is off .017 on the saw you recieved. The cry goes up to get another saw based on the assumption that it is off .017 but... nobody has ask how you measured it to come to that conclussion.

And I'm not pointing a finger.. I saw a so-called expert do an article on the Steel City BS when it came out for FWW magazine. He is currently doing an article on how to tune a BS and he is one of their so-called experts.

His Article title was.. Steel City 18" BS has Major Flaws.. He said the table flatness was off by .018 but went on to say "with the pin out". Now this was a slap in the face for a new company trying to get a foot-hold in the market with an article as such. Everyone raised their eye-brows and Oh, my God .018. An expert said so!


But.. some of us recognized that he measured with the pin out. And expert doesn't do that as All BS's tables should be measured "with Pin In" as they are ground flat at the factory with Pin In. He also told of how the guide bar was bent and the guides wouldn't align. As it turned out he took the BS off the crate and tested without even a minor adjustment. You have to adjust All BS's regardless of quality as BS's are very finiicky. He admitted he had a Dead-line latter in a letter of apology.

So... if an Expert can be wrong in his approach... so can one of us that think we did it the correct way but we really didn't.

Thank you in advance if you could post just how you got the .017...

Regards...

Sarge..

[Andy Sipila]

I spoke with Steel City customer service this morning before work and again was impressed by their willingness to help. The guy I talked to wanted me to look at the capacitor wiring in the motor for the no-run condition and remeasure the miter slots to be sure that they are truly that far out of parallel. He was supposed to e-mail his cel phone number to me so I could contact him after I got off work, but I didn't recieve an e-mail. I'm going out right now to remeasure the miter slots, but will have to wait to talk to someone about the possible capacitor rewiring. If I find my measurements yesterday were correct and the motor is not a simple fix I am leaning towards returning the saw and going with a different brand. This isn't a very convenient scenario though, because I sold my old table saw to make room for the new one which leaves me somewhat high and dry.

[glenn bradley]

This isn't a very convenient scenario though, because I sold my old table saw to make room for the new one which leaves me somewhat high and dry.

It will be even more inconvenient if you are displeased every time you use that tool. I don't know that you need to change brands. My first hybrid had some cast iron issues and a whole new saw was sent out. Re-palletizing the first saw and arranging to be home for it to be picked up were both an inconvenience. But I enjoy the current saw every time I use it. I have never been sorry. Just my experience.

[Neal Clayton]

I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

if there was a demand for it someone would supply it, but the average person simply doesn't want quality, they want cheap, because that's what lowes and home depot tell them to want.

it's no different than anything else over the past 100 years. look at the houses full of plastic and particle board people buy these days, they're a far cry from what's still standing from the late 1800s and early 1900s. after all, the granite counter tops in the kitchen and the freshness of the paint are all that really matters, right?

tools are no different, at this point i'm happy that there are a few manufacturers left that still have a separate commercial/pro line of tools that you can buy from at all.

and yeah i'm one of the lucky ones that got a ~20 year old PM66 for under a thousand bucks, so i guess i can afford to be philosophical about it due to never having to buy another table saw ;).

[Andy Sipila]

After some more careful measurement I confirmed that the miter slots are out of parallel, but by .015" not the previously stated .017". The customer service representative called me at home well after business hours and offered immediately to send me a new top. I told him that if the motor proved to need replacing I would want a new saw and he was happy to offer that. I told him I would call tomorrow when I looked at the capacitor wiring. I'm still very impressed with customer service even if I'm not entirely thrilled with the product so far.

[John Thompson]

I don't believe anyone covered this question or if they did I couldn't find it but.... you don't by chance have a DC.. fans..cyclone.. etc. operating simultaneously with the saw on the same electrical line leading to the outlet used for the TS do you?

Regards...

Sarge..

[Mike Gabbay]

Andy - I'm not sure I would accept a new top unless they were going to install and align it. Shiming it with the blade at 90 degrees and 45 degrees can be a time consuming and frustrating job if you don't do this a lot. I think it would be easier for you to get a totally new saw.

They may be happy to send it to you but the real work is installing and aligning. Not to bum you out but know what you are about to get into.

[Thomas Pender]

I agree with Mike. You paid for a new operating unit that you would not have to repair and reassemble. Fixing it is their problem. I do not consider sending a new motor and top for you to install to be a satisfactory result. Rhetorically - how much are they paying you to install the top and motor? :rolleyes: That seems to be a pretty big favor. (You as a customer have rights.)

If they want to adjust the price significantly, well then maybe. But I agree with others. Getting a top level is a difficult job - not one I would want to attempt. Thus, I would insist upon a new saw or get one from someone else. There are plenty of really superior products out there and they usually work when they arrive.

My .02.

Tom Pender

[Adam Cavaliere]

Just thought I would throw in here that I have a Steel City Table Saw, Jointer and Planer. All are perfect in my mind. Haven't really had any issues at all with them.

I will say that they do not answer questions filled out through their form on their website. Getting them on the phone when they are opened is easy and they are very helpful!

Adam

[Randal Cobb]

I've also got a Steel City TS and Bandsaw. Both are top-notch IMHO. I did, however, go out and measure my miter slots on the top of my own titanium TS table... they are perfectly in line to me (well, they are .001 out at the far end where they exit the top), so I'm not worried in the least. And my nice granite bandsaw can't be beat.

Both of my units are "scratch and dent" but brand new. No warranty, and they still helped me when I called support on a splitter alignment problem! Not too many companies will do that.

[Paul Johnstone]

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. .

Yep, no additional labor is necessary. If the guy boxing it up cared in the least, he would notice that a piece was obviously flawed and not use it.
But I guess when you only pay people 10 cents an hour, you can't expect them to care.

All part of the race to the bottom, I'm afraid. Someone figured out that it's cheaper to have the customer mail bad stuff back.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I told him that if the motor proved to need replacing I would want a new saw and he was happy to offer that."

If they are "happy to offer that" I would take them up on it. You are entitled to a properly functioning machine "out of the box". You should not have to mess around with re-installing the top, the motor or anything else. Now if they wanted to send someone out to do it for you, that would be a different story altogether....

[Andy Sipila]

I spoke with Jim from customer service after work today (again after hours) and after a few quick troubleshooting steps to confirm it wasn't a wiring problem with the start or run capacitors it was decided that he would ship me a replacement saw. He also said he would give me some sort of accesories with my new saw to compensate me for my time spent re-crating the old saw. I have nothing but good things to say about the customer service at SC. Hopefully the new saw will be all I expected of the old one.

Also, for those interested, I used a master gage and the saw blade (same tooth rotated 180 degrees) then extrapolated the error out across the length of the table to get the measurement for how far out of parallel the miter slots were. I then measured between them with a steel rule to confirm that I wasn't getting an erroneous reading. The reading with the steel rule is admitedly tough to get great accuracy, but it did confirm there was an error and this concurred with the measurement that I got with the master gage.

[Tom Veatch]

...it was decided that he would ship me a replacement saw. He also said he would give me some sort of accesories with my new saw to compensate me for my time spent re-crating the old saw. ...

That's good to hear. I know it's been a RPITA for you, but at least it looks like SC is going to do the right thing.

[Mike Goetzke]

Andy - once it's up and running you owe us some pics:D.