Pull Vs. Push...

[Dean Matthews]

Sooooo....

I have seen a bunch of videos. Seems like some people do what I would call a pull cut and others push the gouge when making a bowl.

I seem to do a bit more of the pushing style and rub the bevel.

As long as you are getting the shape you are looking for, and no blood is lost, is there a "wrong" way to cut?

The pull cut I am referring to is when the flute is aimed at the wood but you are bringing the tool towards you instead of pushing it away. I always try to get the bevel of the "nose" of the tool up against the supporting fibers...

Hard to explain this without pictures...

look at it from a clock's perspective...

Imagine you just rounded out the blank... now you are going to start shaping the outside of the bowl.

The "pull" cut is when you have the flute towards the bowl and and the handle is towards 4 or 5 o'clock.

The push cut is the flute away from the blank (sorta) and the handle anywhere between 6 and 8 o'clock.

I have done shearing cuts with the handle towards 4 or 5... but not quite like I have seen some others doing it.

Ideas?

[Bruce Pennell]

Dean Bill Gumbines video will take you through all 4 cuts with a bowl gouge. He use both the push and pull cuts, then a tangent cut, and a shear scrap cut. Didn't you say you ordered his video?
Bill uses push cut mostly when hollowing, pull cut on short flattening cut's, tangent and shear scrap to clean up tool marks. Thats the basic's....Bruce

[Dean Matthews]

Dean Bill Gumbines video will take you through all 4 cuts with a bowl gouge. He use both the push and pull cuts, then a tangent cut, and a shear scrap cut. Didn't you say you ordered his video?
Bill uses push cut mostly when hollowing, pull cut on short flattening cut's, tangent and shear scrap to clean up tool marks. Thats the basic's....Bruce

I did order the video... Just waiting for it to show up. =)

[Bruce Pennell]

Waitings the worst, something I never understood is why aren't people selling their videos in a downloadable format online? Even a slow connection it only takes a few hour to download a video. Sorry you have to wait, but he's the best at answering your questions. He was pretty good at sending them out only took 3 days to get here.

[Dean Matthews]

I just get into these fits where I want to turn stuff and things start to pique my interest. I was also watching some vids on youtube.

[Bruce Pennell]

Thats the nice thing about turning. Grab a piece of firewood and go, the worst thing that can happen is you use it in the fire pit. If you turn something or try a new way of doing things and they don't work out (as long as you do it safely) no big loss a little time....A few month back I went to get some 3/4" baltic birch plywood, they were out. Went to the borg and bought cabinet grade ( shouldn't have borg and cabinet grade in the same sentence) ply. What a mistake, picked out only straight nice edge ply. Got home put together a 24" X 72" work bench with 20 drawers. Installed all my drawer slides and quit for the day. Two days later went to make the first drawer, Ya warped like a noodle. What a joke had a peice 10" X 72" that I was going to cut for drawers, ya right, it had bowed by 4- 5". Had some oak laying around, made my first drawer, would push in about 1/2 way, sanded the sides, until it fit and closed. When you opened it it fell off the tracks, couldn't even come close to adjusting it. The box was square 2 days before, sure didn't stay that way. Lesson learned or did I, I'm still like you I hate to wait! Thank goodness it was only a $100 worth of worthless ply, and 7 hours wasted.

[Bruce Pennell]

Dean check out the videos on the Woodworking Channel (http://www.woodworkingchannel.com/dolphin/vidego_video_library.php) Under AAW and Nick Cook turning a 1200 pound log on two PM 3520's under misc.

[Jim Becker]

I use both types of cuts multiplied by many times via the orientation of the tool and the cutting surface. (I use Ellsworth grind gouges for the majority of my turning and how you hold the tool is also relevant to the type of cut, especially with some shearing cuts (pull cuts with the tool angled in various directions) on exteriors.

[Matt Hutchinson]

For roughing the outer shape, I usually end up having to vary my cuts. I tend to take the biggest cut possible, and this can get fatiging. So I will pull for a while until I get tired. (It's tough to pull 3/8" shavings for very long.) Sometimes I lean over the lathe with the handle virtually parallel to the ways, and push towards the rim/headstock. But for final shaping, I always use some style of pull cut.

The inside of the bowl is another story. I generally do some funky stuff, like hoggin out a huge divot in the center by doing a pivot cut against the normal direction of cut. Then I return to the rim and do a high angle push cut, taking very heavy shavings and letting my body weight to the work. Not until the blank is near the rough wall thickness do I switch to a sweeping push cut to creat the most consistent curve.

I know this may not be very clear, but the point is do what works for you. I am young and tend to make cuts that beat up my body. Many don't like this, and so take gentler cuts. Any way you make a good turning is how it should be done, cuz you learn more every time, and the methods often change from turning to turning when just starting out. (By just starting out I mean the first 100 bowls. I am still in this category.)

As far as Bill's video, it's a great place to start, but you should experiment constantly. I have found some interesting cuts that I find very useful not covered in most videos. I would imagine that most turners learn their own set of 'moves' in this way. (BTW, I have Bill's video.)

Hutch

[Richard Madison]

Good summary there, Matt. Different strokes (or cuts) for different folks. On end grain turnings you might generally want to cut "down-grain" when feasible, and that could be either push or pull depending upon shape of the work.

Unlike Matt, my body parts tire, hurt, get cramps, etc. easily, so I switch cuts (and even switch tools) frequently to transfer the load to an area that isn't hurting at the moment. Try to hold a little in reserve for the last couple light passes with the right tool in the right direction (when I know what that is).

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use both cuts Dean. Depends on the situation. Sometimes a pull cut works better in the bottom of a certain bowl and sometimes push cuts are called for.

[Reed Gray]

When using a gouge, I use a pull cut on the outside of the bowl for roughing, but a push cut for the finish cuts. I push from the back end with me standing more towards the bottom of the bowl (actually, this is more of a handle against the body, and rotate than a push), and pull from the headstock end of the lathe. On the inside, it is always a push cut. However, I use a scraper for the roughing, and you can push and/or pull from the same stance. For rouging cuts with a scraper, it doesn't really matter if you are cutting with or against the grain. If you have some tear out, so what. You start taking smaller and lighter cuts as you get closer to final form, then finish cuts to remove the last of the tearout.
robo hippy

[robert hainstock]

The thing that gets lost most times is that Bills four cuts use ALL the cutting edges, and thus save sharpening time. I would also point out that while he never says anything about the gauge he's using, it sure looks like the Elsworth grind to me. If you have the wolverine jig, you can modify the standard grind to the Elsworth lookalike. I have modified my bowl gauges to that profile. Good luck with yours.:)
Bob