Band saw accuracy

[Dan Stuewe]

In my constant dream of a dream shop (in a one-car garage) I've lately been thinking about dumping the idea of a cabinet saw + band saw in favor of just a band saw. But, having little experience with a band saw, I'm wondering, can a well tuned moderate (Grizzly-Delta 14"-er) to high (Laguna-Minimax 18"-er) quality band saw be expected to rip stock as accurately as a well tuned table saw. For example, if I were making a face-frame panel, can I joint the edge of a stile and then rip it to width on the band saw (with a fence) and get parallel edges? The same goes for cross-cutting, but the CMS can be used for a lot of that work.

BTW, sheet goods would have to be taken care of with a "skil-saw" and the router table would take care of the dados/rabbets.

Thanks,

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Sure you can do that Dan, as long as the piece isn't too long. I know several woodworkers who chose a bandsaw over a tablesaw. Just leave enough room to joint the rough edge.

[Richard Allen]

You can't do dados on a bandsaw. You can't back out of a cut on a bandsaw (well you can but there is nothing stop the bandsaw blade from being pulled into away from the guides).

The table on a bandsaw is tiny compaired to a tablesaw. There are a lot of great things about a bandsaw but a tablesaw is a LOT faster at setting up for rip cuts which result in a glue joint edge.

I do mostly woodturner now days and a bandsaw is a better tool to support woodturning than a tablesaw.

A tablesaw is a LOT better at supporting "corner" work than a bandsaw.

[Donnie Raines]

If I "heard" correctly...the Euro's center their workshop arounf the bandsaw...like you and I would a tabelsaw. The sad part is this...both excel at certain things. Some are comparble. I could not imagine working without a table saw...of any size for that matter. But, if I had to chose just one...it would be a band saw. Simply because I feel there are things that a band saw can do that a tabel saw could never do(cuttung shapes and the like. You could always cut dados with a hand held router.

Thats all I have to offer...... ;)


Donnie R

[David Rose]

Dan, that is exactly what I do. I have a tuned Delta 14" with a Lenox carbide blade. I frequently have about .008" error (1/128th inch). I allow for that and take a couple of strokes with a hand plane or sand out the blade marks. I do not expect the precision of a rigid blade. That may be possible with some heavier saws. But I don't have any experience with those. :(

David, with a slight lust in his heart for a BIG MM


In my constant dream of a dream shop (in a one-car garage) I've lately been thinking about dumping the idea of a cabinet saw + band saw in favor of just a band saw. But, having little experience with a band saw, I'm wondering, can a well tuned moderate (Grizzly-Delta 14"-er) to high (Laguna-Minimax 18"-er) quality band saw be expected to rip stock as accurately as a well tuned table saw. For example, if I were making a face-frame panel, can I joint the edge of a stile and then rip it to width on the band saw (with a fence) and get parallel edges? The same goes for cross-cutting, but the CMS can be used for a lot of that work.

BTW, sheet goods would have to be taken care of with a "skil-saw" and the router table would take care of the dados/rabbets.

Thanks,

[Mark Singer]

I really love my Agazzani 20" and my Jet 14" bandsaws...I would not think of ever giving up my PM 66 . I do use the Aggazani for ripping. A cabinet saw is essential to furniture making and there is no substitute for certain tasks ...sheet goods, dados, rabbets, jointmaking You need both

[Steven Wilson]

In my constant dream of a dream shop (in a one-car garage) I've lately been thinking about dumping the idea of a cabinet saw + band saw in favor of just a band saw. But, having little experience with a band saw, I'm wondering, can a well tuned moderate (Grizzly-Delta 14"-er) to high (Laguna-Minimax 18"-er) quality band saw be expected to rip stock as accurately as a well tuned table saw. For example, if I were making a face-frame panel, can I joint the edge of a stile and then rip it to width on the band saw (with a fence) and get parallel edges? The same goes for cross-cutting, but the CMS can be used for a lot of that work.

BTW, sheet goods would have to be taken care of with a "skil-saw" and the router table would take care of the dados/rabbets.

Thanks,

A well tuned bandsaw that can handle a 1" or wider blade (i.e. a Minimax MM20) can be used for ripping. Right now I'm without a tablesaw (just sold a PM66 waiting on a combo) and am still doing projects. I can accurately rip on a bandsaw, I just use a jointer plane with a fine set to clean up the edge. If I were to not have a tablesaw for a long time then I would obtain a Festool circular saw, guide rail, vac, and table and use that for sheet goods. But for riping hardwoods a good bandsaw with a wide blade is just fine.

[nic obie]

I find myself using the band saw more and more but couldn't do without my sliding, scoring table saw for sheet goods.

[Jim Taylor]

In my constant dream of a dream shop (in a one-car garage) I've lately been thinking about dumping the idea of a cabinet saw + band saw in favor of just a band saw. But, having little experience with a band saw, I'm wondering, can a well tuned moderate (Grizzly-Delta 14"-er) to high (Laguna-Minimax 18"-er) quality band saw be expected to rip stock as accurately as a well tuned table saw. For example, if I were making a face-frame panel, can I joint the edge of a stile and then rip it to width on the band saw (with a fence) and get parallel edges? The same goes for cross-cutting, but the CMS can be used for a lot of that work.

BTW, sheet goods would have to be taken care of with a "skil-saw" and the router table would take care of the dados/rabbets.

Thanks,

Hi Dan,

I am not the best reference for this, simply due to my lack of experience. However, this is the road that I am travelling. I recieved my LT18 last week, and am using it as my sole large machine. I debated which way was best for me, and due to the always limited budget, decided that I could only go with one machine. Altimately I decided that I wanted the features of a bandsaw more than the table saw.

Anyway, my experience so far... I think that with experiece, I will be able to get things down to the point where it is very possible to rip with very good results. I am doing a shop project first to aquaint myself, and have ripped about 10, 6' , 1 1/4 ", boards from poplar for this project. My first mistake, after jointing, rip to the right of the blade, otherwise you are removing your reference, and you will need to joint the board over. This means moving the fence for each cut. Basically, I ripped everything about an 1/8" wide, then planed my strips down to 1 1/4". Also, I can see that I need to add infeed/outfeed tables to manage the boards better.

Finally, I would say that "a well tuned" bandsaw is more tweeking than some would find acceptable. Each time you tension the band, there are a series of steps to go through before a straight cut will be of high quality. If I was doing this for money, this would be a stumbling point, but I enjoy the whole process, so its not a big deal to me. The repetative steps I have experienced so far are:

- track/tension blade
- adjust guides
- test cut - adjust fence to drift
- check/correct table angle square to blade
- ready to go
- change blade/tension, go back to step one.

So far, I have ripped sizable boards, and done tenons, both have come out to my expectations, and there is plenty of room for me to refine the process.

It takes a bit a fiddling each time, but I think that it is a manageable thing. The bandsaw is just so versatile, that if you can only afford, or fit one machine.... to me this is a good choice.

-Jim

[Dale Thompson]

Dan,

NO!! Don't even THINK about it!! The table saw is the CENTER of almost ANY shop!! It's like saying, "Would you trade your lathe for a table saw?" The answer is simple. "Sure, for the right price, but I would also change hobbies and probably get into cross-stitching, or something like that!" The GREATEST bandsaw in the WORLD will NOT replace the WORST table saw in the world!! :) :) Each has its place but the table saw MUST come first!! .

I'm sort of a black/white person. Don't EVER listen to me!! :( ;)

Dale T.

[David Rose]

Jim, I am surprised that you have to go through all the setup steps after retensioning a blade. I don't expect that much work unless I at least change blades. I detension at the end of each day, when I don't forget. Tracking, drift and guides don't seem to change on my little cheap Delta 14. I may be missing something, but my cuts don't show it.

Puzzled David


Hi Dan,

I am not the best reference for this, simply due to my lack of experience. However, this is the road that I am travelling. I recieved my LT18 last week, and am using it as my sole large machine. I debated which way was best for me, and due to the always limited budget, decided that I could only go with one machine. Altimately I decided that I wanted the features of a bandsaw more than the table saw.

Anyway, my experience so far... I think that with experiece, I will be able to get things down to the point where it is very possible to rip with very good results. I am doing a shop project first to aquaint myself, and have ripped about 10, 6' , 1 1/4 ", boards from poplar for this project. My first mistake, after jointing, rip to the right of the blade, otherwise you are removing your reference, and you will need to joint the board over. This means moving the fence for each cut. Basically, I ripped everything about an 1/8" wide, then planed my strips down to 1 1/4". Also, I can see that I need to add infeed/outfeed tables to manage the boards better.

Finally, I would say that "a well tuned" bandsaw is more tweeking than some would find acceptable. Each time you tension the band, there are a series of steps to go through before a straight cut will be of high quality. If I was doing this for money, this would be a stumbling point, but I enjoy the whole process, so its not a big deal to me. The repetative steps I have experienced so far are:

- track/tension blade
- adjust guides
- test cut - adjust fence to drift
- check/correct table angle square to blade
- ready to go
- change blade/tension, go back to step one.

So far, I have ripped sizable boards, and done tenons, both have come out to my expectations, and there is plenty of room for me to refine the process.

It takes a bit a fiddling each time, but I think that it is a manageable thing. The bandsaw is just so versatile, that if you can only afford, or fit one machine.... to me this is a good choice.

-Jim

[David Rose]

Gollllllly! Dan, Dale is right. Don't ever listen to him. He is all out in the gray area. Let him do his knitting and such. Real men only need a bandsaw! ...and a planer, and maybe a plane, for when you need glue ups and such... and maybe some duct tape and baling WIRE (remember those days?) Jeese! Dale, everyone doesn't need one of those kick backing (kicking back?) kind of saws! :mad: Wow! The Europeans are wrong about most everything else, but they get the bandsaw part right. If you can smooth the edge a little, the bandsaw does most of the rest.

David who is VERY black and white!


Dan,

NO!! Don't even THINK about it!! The table saw is the CENTER of almost ANY shop!! It's like saying, "Would you trade your lathe for a table saw?" The answer is simple. "Sure, for the right price, but I would also change hobbies and probably get into cross-stitching, or something like that!" The GREATEST bandsaw in the WORLD will NOT replace the WORST table saw in the world!! :) :) Each has its place but the table saw MUST come first!! .

I'm sort of a black/white person. Don't EVER listen to me!! :( ;)

Dale T.

[Dale Thompson]

David,

OK, guy, you're right. I give up!! The folks in Europe know what they are doing -- just ask the French!! ;) :D :D By the way, don't EVER ask a Norwegian ANYTHING! I'm one of them and I KNOW how smart we are! :eek: :eek: :)

Dale T.

[David Rose]

Ouch! You really know how to hurt a guy don't you? Do I dare own up to being mostly German? Heeeeey! Whadayamean... I'm AMERICAN! Red, White, and Blue USA born raised and all that stuff! Don't you get me off on that other stuff, you sly dude. :D

David

[Jim Taylor]

Jim, I am surprised that you have to go through all the setup steps after retensioning a blade. I don't expect that much work unless I at least change blades. I detension at the end of each day, when I don't forget. Tracking, drift and guides don't seem to change on my little cheap Delta 14. I may be missing something, but my cuts don't show it.

Puzzled David


David,

All my tweeking in most likely due to lack of experience with the saw at this point... I did see that after bringing the tension down on a 1" blade, and starting over the next day that the drift was slightly different. At the time I was attributing it to a slightly different tension or tracking. I figured that the curve on the tire could skew the blade off depending on its tracking and/or tension. However, it could simply be that, with the new saw (3 days old), I am tweeking so many aspects that it is hard to nail down exactly what I am doing.

It also seems that with a smaller blade (1/4), that the Laguna guides are able to deflect the blade out of square to the table... so this is something I need to mess with more. It may be that my table is not quite as square to the line of the blade as I first thought.

As an example... I cut about 16 tenons, if I take the waste from all those cuts and line them up as they come off the cut. I can see that when they are stacked that the accumulated angle from top to bottom is maybe 5-7 degrees off perpendicular. I can just barely see this difference in any individual tenon by eye, but it is there.

I can be rather obsesive (or so the LOML says), so I will keep poking and tweeking the saw until I understand the effect of all my adjustments. Your post gives me hope that I will settle down to a relatively stable setting!

I am tempted to jump on that tablesaw/bandsaw thing... but lets just say that the last time I tried to cut a curve on the table saw, well ya know... and with very little experience, I have been able to make very nearly straight cuts on my bandsaw which are easy to clean up!

-Jim

[David Rose]

Jim, I really do suspect that it is just that things are not fully set up yet. I don't think you will have to do the whole operation each time that you retension once all is aligned. When I am about to undertake a critical cut I will make some checks. Seldom does anything need to be touched.

I wouldn't seriously get into a table saw vs. bandsaw argument. If it sounds like I am that serious it is an error on my part. I don't own a table saw nor really have room for one. I occasionally miss that, but so far have found ways to work around it. I have a much larger shop built table on my bandsaw than the little factory one, and have a stand and big sled for larger work. The limitation with the frame post can be agravating, but again there are workarounds. The ideal situation would be to have both probably. As a hobbiest though, I don't really miss the table saw... often. :)

David

[Dan Stuewe]

All,
Thanks for all the insight. I'm still struggling with this, but I know I have time since right now I'm too in-debt to spend much $$ on my hobbie (I did just blow $50 on 2 24" K-bodies, but that was therapy after having to say 'no' to a MM16 at show display price :( ).

Another question, if I may, how much do you think a book would help someone like Jim in setting up an unfamiliar bandsaw? Could this be something that helps him (and will help me) out?