LV Alum Bar Clamps?

[Randy Klein]

Has anyone tried out the clamps that LV has a special offer (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57673&cat=1,43838) on right now? The price seems real nice.

[Jerome Hanby]

Neat looking clamps, but is there anything they can do that Bessey k Bodies wont? Reason I ask is that you can get Besseys cheaper at Lowes since they marked them down...

[Randy Klein]

Neat looking clamps, but is there anything they can do that Bessey k Bodies wont? Reason I ask is that you can get Besseys cheaper at Lowes since they marked them down...

A better price, really? The price quoted is for 10 clamps which makes the smaller ones $6.50 and the longer ones $8.50 a clamp. I can't find a better price at Lowes. Do you have a link?

[Dewey Torres]

I have a couple of these. Not even fair to compare to Bessy but the price is right and they work good. Prob 7 on scale of 1 to 10.

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?catPath=All%2BProducts%252F%252F%252F%25 2FUserSearch%253Dbar%2Bclamps&currentPage=4&lastPage=4&isNext=false&isPrevious=false&category=&attributeValue=&attributeName=&requestedPage=1&resultsPerPage=10&resultsPerPageBottom=0

Dewey

[David Schnegg]

That seems like a pretty good deal. I bought a few of the 60" versions at Harbor Freight. Used them on a couple projects and they work all right.

60" Version:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92490

36" Version:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38184

[Ben Cadotte]

I have about 15 of the 48" ones from different company. All look extrememly similar in construction though. The thing to watch with the longer aluminium clamps is the bar tends to twist as you really tighten down on the clamps. Useually not an issue but an annoyance. They are my main clamps for that size range.

I think its a decent price for the 48" ones. I think I got mine for like $4.50 each buying in bulk about 5 years ago (ebay). Have not seen the HF ones but it looks like they have taller jaws?

[Randy Klein]

Well, I went ahead and ordered a set of both sizes. I trust LV's return policy if they turn out to be bad.

[Rob Russell]

Moved to Classifieds per this post (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/announcement.php?f=3&a=15).

[Curt Harms]

Has anyone tried out the clamps that LV has a special offer (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=57673&cat=1,43838) on right now? The price seems real nice.

Paid about $20/each:o a few years ago. These have one attribute--they're light. K bodies work great when they're low but I find they can make narrow tall glue ups top heavy. The aluminum bar clamps are light so they're not tipsy. I was comparing Jet clamps to those sold by Penn State Industries. I felt the Jet jaws stayed perpendicular to the bar as they were tightened better than the PSI version, which is why I went with the Jet brand.

I don't know anything about the Lee Valley ones but Lee Valley doesn't sell junk so they're probably a good deal.

Curt

[Randy Klein]

Moved to Classifieds per this post (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/announcement.php?f=3&a=15).

Really, why? I asked for opinions/review of the clamps. Which one of the following do you think this thread falls under (pulled from you linked post)?


Want Ads - To buy or sell or trade.
Deals, Discounts and Codes, Trade Listings or any commercial interest announcements in whole or in part.
Requests for pricing on tools, equipment or services including inquiries concerning any commercial or company offerings.

[Mike SoRelle]

Really, why? I asked for opinions/review of the clamps. Which one of the following do you think this thread falls under (pulled from you linked post)?


I'm going to guess 'including inquiries concerning any commercial or company offerings.' with my fear that if that answer is correct, it pretty well rules out any discussion on the merits of any product by any company which would be a terrible shame and eliminate probably 60% of the posts in the general ww and power tools forum.

Let's hope that this was just an overly cautious move and not the new standard.

[Randy Klein]

I'm going to guess 'including inquiries concerning any commercial or company offerings.' with my fear that if that answer is correct, it pretty well rules out any discussion on the merits of any product by any company which would be a terrible shame and eliminate probably 60% of the posts in the general ww and power tools forum.

Let's hope that this was just an overly cautious move and not the new standard.

I agree with you on that, if this is truly the correct interpretation, the classified forum will become a very busy forum.

But I do politely request a second opinion from another moderator.

[Art Travers]

it even gets better since you can get a couple of coupons for $10 ea
which reduced my purchase of two 50" K clamps to $65 including tax..

[Glenn Clabo]

Ken...
We are discussing this among the mods. It takes a little time to get everyones thoughts.

[Randy Klein]

Ken...
We are discussing this among the mods. It takes a little time to get everyones thoughts.

Thanks for the update and the consideration.

[Mike SoRelle]

Upon looking a little closer at the general forum, my 60% estimate might have been a little low, I'm seeing more like 70-80% involving discussion of specific brands, and the same of course applies to virtually all the forums (turning, etc) though not all with the same percentages.

Of course, moving all that to the classifieds forum would solve the member vs contributor issue once and for all, one way or another that is...

[Jerome Hanby]

Bessey 40" $34.96 (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=34459-1073-K3540&lpage=none). plus there is a link here someplace where you can get a $10 off $25+ purchase. I used every email address i could lay hands on and bought a total of 6 for less than $28 a piece after sales tax.

Duh!, never mind, that quantity of 10 comment just hit me. Heck I may order some, Never have too many clamps! thanks for the post!




A better price, really? The price quoted is for 10 clamps which makes the smaller ones $6.50 and the longer ones $8.50 a clamp. I can't find a better price at Lowes. Do you have a link?

[Matt Day]

I just got my 10 of the 24" clamps in the other day, and am using them right now for some shelf glue ups. They're nice and light, and I thought the same thing: that LV doesn't sell anything that's junk so I got them.

A couple things... these are inexpensive clamps, not nearly the same standards as Bessy's or Jet's. one of the heads is a bit rough and will probably need to be chased or at least oiled a bit. The legs are not tall enough to allow the handle to rotate without hitting the table it's sitting on.

But for glue ups and general purpose duties, I think they'll work great.

[Randy Klein]

Ken...
We are discussing this among the mods. It takes a little time to get everyones thoughts.

So how's that discussion going?

[Glenn Clabo]

Ongoing...and interesting. Going away from a contribution only model to advertising has caused issues that are not easy to resolve without significant thought.

[Chris Padilla]

Yes, it has gotten quite complicated but I think we've whittled it down! :)

[Steve Clardy]

Yes, it has gotten quite complicated but I think we've whittled it down! :)



Better sharpen yer knives. Yer whittling is taking too long. ;):D:D



Back to the clamps, I have a half dozen or so that look like LV's, but didn't come from there. A couple of mine stripped the threads out of the head for the threaded shaft.
Not a well made clamp.

[Randy Klein]

One nice thing about having this thread moved to the classified forum, is that it's really moving up the rankings in Replies. We're almost half-way to first place. :D

Of course, once I post this, it'll probably move back and then it's lights out.

[Chris Padilla]

Randy,

We're also discussing how threads vanish off the the PT/GWW page so quickly due to its popularity.

I'd like to suggest Folks simply use the "New Posts" link and then one doesn't really care WHERE a thread is started. I've forced myself to use it for a couple of months now and I really like it as you can see posts in all forums.

BTW, I picked up 10 of the 49" clamps. LV stands behind their stuff and I NEVER worry to order from them.

[Randy Klein]

Randy,

We're also discussing how threads vanish off the the PT/GWW page so quickly due to its popularity.

I'd like to suggest Folks simply use the "New Posts" link and then one doesn't really care WHERE a thread is started. I've forced myself to use it for a couple of months now and I really like it as you can see posts in all forums.

BTW, I picked up 10 of the 49" clamps. LV stands behind their stuff and I NEVER worry to order from them.

My "technique" (although that sounds wrong) is to check subscribed threads, then Neanderthal Haven, and then new posts. But sometimes New Posts brings back 200+ threads, so then I just jump into the individual forums as time permits. I have also used the "focused New Post" search technique, but it's just not as convenient.

And about the clamps, that's how I feel about LV, so I ordered them with confidence.

[Ted Jay]

I agree with you on that, if this is truly the correct interpretation, the classified forum will become a very busy forum.

But I do politely request a second opinion from another moderator.

Since a member has not listed their "personal property" for sale I see no reason for this thread to have been moved to the classified forum.

But that's just my opinion, as I try to boost my post count up:D
Thank you,:rolleyes:
Ted

[Richard Dooling]

I have tried the New Posts link as Chris suggests. It helps but would be a little friendlier if there were sorting options. Today as of about 9:40 a.m. EDT, there were over 130 new posts in numerous categories.

BTW I am very impressed with the way conscientious way the moderators are attempting to address this issue.

[Danny Thompson]

Mods,

Really appreciate the role you play in keeping this forum organized, positive, and informative.

I can see how the OP looks like an ad.

That said, my biggest concern about this policy is that a "Member" would not be allowed to comment on any commercial product, or post any more than an initial question about a commercial product.

I am a Contributor now, but it was a good 6 months before I was sold on becoming a contributor. I needed the experience of asking a few questions and getting a few answers first. With this policy, we are asking people to marry us without dating.

Questions for your consideration:

Are Patrick Leach's site and products considered commercial?
How about discussing Clint's rehabbed planes?
Krenov, who sometimes sells a plane?
Joel's online museum, sharpening instructions, or award-winning saws?

Reminds me of Jay Leno saying he once refused a $100 tip from a "made man." He knew it would change him and he would be obligated to/owned by the guy, later.

My $0.02. I think it makes sense to have a "Commercial Products" forum, but Members should be allowed to post to it.

Best of luck sorting this out. Again, we really appreciate you.

[Chris Padilla]

Moved back to GWW/PT. :)

[Rob Russell]

I'm going to break with our rules and explain why I moved the post to the Classifieds.

Randy's original post, while asking a question, clearly included an announcement of "a deal", which in this case was a link to a commercial website and the label "special offer". Per the announcement at the top of the forums, such an announcement of a deal needs to be in the Classifieds.

Some of the points and questions that you are raising in this thread are similar to what we're discussing in the Moderator forum. To expand on what Glenn noted, Keith has been forced to take SMC to an advertising model based on overall lack of financial support from the membership. That shift definitely forces some changes. If the advertisers feel that members can post "ads" for their competitors for free, they won't advertise. No advertisers means no $$$.

We definitely understand that links to products are an important part of many posts. What becomes very subjective is determining when a post changes from:


(A question) "I'm thinking about buying link to a product, does anyone have any experience with it" to
(An advertisement) "Hey - here's a great deal on this product!"
We're working through a change that is neither clear-cut nor simple. We mods also recognize that the ability to consistently apply the new policies is important and that is another aspect of our discussions.

Rob

[Mike SoRelle]

I'm going to break with our rules and explain why I moved the post to the Classifieds.

Randy's original post, while asking a question, clearly included an announcement of "a deal", which in this case was a link to a commercial website and the label "special offer". Per the announcement at the top of the forums, such an announcement of a deal needs to be in the Classifieds.

Some of the points and questions that you are raising in this thread are similar to what we're discussing in the Moderator forum. To expand on what Glenn noted, Keith has been forced to take SMC to an advertising model based on overall lack of financial support from the membership. That shift definitely forces some changes. If the advertisers feel that members can post "ads" for their competitors for free, they won't advertise. No advertisers means no $$$.

We definitely understand that links to products are an important part of many posts. What becomes very subjective is determining when a post changes from:


(A question) "I'm thinking about buying link to a product, does anyone have any experience with it" to
(An advertisement) "Hey - here's a great deal on this product!"
We're working through a change that is neither clear-cut nor simple. We mods also recognize that the ability to consistently apply the new policies is important and that is another aspect of our discussions.

Rob

I for one appreciate your transparency in this instance, I understand what you're going through but it's nice to see the rational explained because I was extremely troubled by the potential ramifications of wholesale enforcement of moving any and all posts relating to a commercial offering to classifieds for obvious reasons.

I know this model is new for everyone, it's a shame that being member supported couldn't happen, none of these conversations would be being had.

At the same time, I hope there's no vendor favoring going on either where the rules don't apply to advertisers.

Hopefully this stuff will work itself out without trashing the community in the process.

Mike

[Rick Thom]

I just got my 10 of the 24" clamps in the other day, and am using them right now for some shelf glue ups. They're nice and light, and I thought the same thing: that LV doesn't sell anything that's junk so I got them.

A couple things... these are inexpensive clamps, not nearly the same standards as Bessy's or Jet's. one of the heads is a bit rough and will probably need to be chased or at least oiled a bit. The legs are not tall enough to allow the handle to rotate without hitting the table it's sitting on.

But for glue ups and general purpose duties, I think they'll work great.
I've had these clamps since last year when they were introduced and have used them as Matt describes with good success. They are very decent quality LIGHT DUTY aluminum bar clamps IMHO, and are not fairly comparable to Bessey or Jet parallel jaw clamps. I use them for light duty jobs and if I find the pressure is distorting the bar a bit, I'll add another clamp to lessen the load, or resort to heavier duty conventional bar or pipe clamps as an example. These are a good way to economically supplement your basic clamps. Another advantage to these is that you can easily cut them to the length most useful to you. I don't necessarily need 10-48", and sometimes the 24" ones aren't long enough, so I wouldn't hesitate to cut a few to 36" if that's what I frequently need to make them easier to handle in my small shop. One thing to watch out for is oil staining by the plastic pads which is a common problem with all similar clamps, and not at all unique to these. A few friends mentioned small "oil" stains on their fresh unfinished cherry after the new clamps were removed. I guess this just comes with the territory sometimes. Not a big issue for me, just thought I should mention it.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike,

Things are getting mighty interesting around here with the new ad-based support, that is for sure! I hope everyone is as patient as you are as we come to grips with things. It isn't easy at all.

[Chris Padilla]

One thing to watch out for is oil staining by the plastic pads which is a common problem with all similar clamps, and not at all unique to these. A few friends mentioned small "oil" stains on their fresh unfinished cherry after the new clamps were removed. I guess this just comes with the territory sometimes. Not a big issue for me, just thought I should mention it.

Rick,

Thanks for the info and head's up on the oil-staining. Looks like I may be gluing on something else to these pads or removing them for something else.

[Rick Thom]

Chris, I haven't found it a biggy, just experiment first and maybe give them a bit of a wipe with a degreaser if necessary. I've had the same problem with most clamps with plastic pads and it may more prevalent if one constantly over tightens them.

[Chris Padilla]

Rick, I haven't noticed such things with my Bessey clamps but weren't some folks complaining about the Jet clamps causing such things? There was a thread not long ago concerning this very thing.

[Rick Thom]

Chris, I've never noticed problems with the hard faced plastic clamps, but I have with some of the economy clamps with soft plastic pads of the sort pictured here. There may be a bit of some sort of liquid within the structure of the plastic used.

[Mike SoRelle]

Chris, I've never noticed problems with the hard faced plastic clamps, but I have with some of the economy clamps with soft plastic pads of the sort pictured here. There may be a bit of some sort of liquid within the structure of the plastic used.

I believe it's a plasticizer/elasticizer used in making the flexible plastic used for the coverings being forced out under pressure, I've been able to get clamps with soft pads to leave marks regardless of manufacturer and regardless of age (in the thread about the marks on cherry that came up a few weeks ago, I tested an old clamp I had and was able to get it to exude an oily subtance), but have never been able to reproduce it with bessey or jet (or Jorgenson) with the solid plastic jaws.

I had never ended up with the oil stains on any real work myself since most of the clamps with those coverings have far too little surface area to provide good clamping pressure so I alway used scrap cauls.

Mike

[Rick Thom]

Thanks Mike for a good explanation that makes some sense to me.

[Randy Klein]

Now that the diversion has been taken care of, I can steer this thread back to topic.

I received these clamps today. I was planning on trying them out on a glue-up I have this weekend.

Unfortunately, I don't even think they're going to make it that far.:(

The first thing that took me back was the "Made in China" labeling on the packaging. I was under the impression that LV either used N. American manufacturers or indicated country of origin on the product page. Maybe I was mistaken. Normally, that wouldn't mean much to me, but I was surprised to see it.

After removing them all from the packaging, I started playing around with them. They were light and seemed to have a build quality equal to their price. But I had some sever issues with the screw.

On some of the clamps, the screw turned just fine. But on others, it would bind and advance no more. And this was without any clamping pressure, just turning the screw. It seemed you could work past the bind by turning the clamp over and such, but that won't be possible in a glue-up. This also leads me to believe that the binding might be occurring in the clamp head and not the screw. But regardless, it occurs.

So, I don't do this often with LV purchases, but these are going to be returned.:(

I guess I'll go stick with Rockler pipe clamps or try another brand of pipe clamps. Any opinions on that?

[Phil Thien]

On some of the clamps, the screw turned just fine. But on others, it would bind and advance no more. And this was without any clamping pressure, just turning the screw. It seemed you could work past the bind by turning the clamp over and such, but that won't be possible in a glue-up. This also leads me to believe that the binding might be occurring in the clamp head and not the screw. But regardless, it occurs.

Did you try oiling the screw? The clamps that I purchase at HF (which are identical to what you've got there) tend to stick and bind until I put a couple of drops on the screw and worked it into the head. After a little oil they work great.

I wish they were made in North America too, though.

[John Keeton]

Just received my order of the 48" yesterday. I have not used them yet, but did not notice any binding issues. They are lightweight, but seems they will do fine for the work intended. Certainly would not want to use them in place of a pipe clamp or Bessey, but there are many times that this should be a sufficient clamp. For what its worth, my blastgates from LV were made overseas as well. It is very difficult to avoid that market as has been commented on in other threads. I agree that information should be available prior to purchase so decisions can be made.

[Jim Becker]

The first thing that took me back was the "Made in China" labeling on the packaging. I was under the impression that LV either used N. American manufacturers or indicated country of origin on the product page. Maybe I was mistaken. Normally, that wouldn't mean much to me, but I was surprised to see it.

Lee Valley marks an item sourced from USA or CA with a little flag designation. If that little flag is not there, then the product is from somewhere else and often from Asia. There is no USA or CA designation on the web site for that item.

'Sorry that these did not work out for you. Fortunately, you are dealing with a company that will stand by your decision if you want to return them. Be very sure to explain what went wrong...they do listen, unlike many other vendors.

[Chris Padilla]

I got mine yesterday as well: WOW, THEY ARE SO LIGHT!!! :)

I have yet to take them out of the box but I will need to play with them first and make sure they are all right. I would hate to send them back but if necessary, I will....

[Jim Becker]

Chris...ok, they are light. Are they usable within what you perceive their capabilities?

[Chris Padilla]

I will try them over the holiday weekend, Jim.

[Randy Klein]

Did you try oiling the screw? The clamps that I purchase at HF (which are identical to what you've got there) tend to stick and bind until I put a couple of drops on the screw and worked it into the head. After a little oil they work great.

I wish they were made in North America too, though.

I tried oiling the screw and waxing the bar. It seems that its not the screw that is binding, but the clamp head. If I hold the clamp upside down, I can advance the screw all the way forward and back. But when I hold the clamp right-side up, it binds. I imagine I could "lift" the clamp head as I'm advancing the screw to overcome, but that's not something I would look forward to doing as the glue sets...

[Scott Schwake]

On some of the clamps, the screw turned just fine. But on others, it would bind and advance no more.

I noticed this same thing with mine, and was disappointed after all the good things I read about Lee Valley on this site. From reading this thread, I take it they have a good return policy, unfortunately I think these will probably be going back.

[Chris Padilla]

Scott,

Yes, their return policy is good. I will have to give all my clamps a good shake-down to be sure if I will return mine or not. Bummer to hear about the problems but I guess for under $10/clamp....

[John Keeton]

...but I guess for under $10/clamp....
I echo what Chris has said. We just can't expect an $8.50 clamp to perform with the same smoothness and quality as one that costs 4 or 5 times as much. We do get what we pay for, and that doesn't mean these are junk. They are inexpensive clamps for those times when you need to use several, but don't need the extreme pressure. Seems they would do fine gluing drawer boxes, etc. I will be interested to hear how everyone decides to handle this purchase.

[Randy Klein]

I echo what Chris has said. We just can't expect an $8.50 clamp to perform with the same smoothness and quality as one that costs 4 or 5 times as much. We do get what we pay for, and that doesn't mean these are junk. They are inexpensive clamps for those times when you need to use several, but don't need the extreme pressure. Seems they would do fine gluing drawer boxes, etc. I will be interested to hear how everyone decides to handle this purchase.

I agree with what you say, but I at least expect the clamp to function. Maybe it won't function as well or as smooth as more expensive clamps, but when they don't function at all, then I have a problem.

[Mike Heaney]

I think I bought these (10x24" and 10x48") last year when the special offer was on before. I've used them for a bundle of things- here are my observations so far:

- The price per clamp is incredible
- out of 20, one clamp was unusable due to previously mentioned binding issues
- With several clamps the rivet that should hold the clamp head to the screw thread does not do that- so the clamp head slides around up and down the bar unless its under pressure and in place. A little awkward when setting up glue ups
- The tightening lever thingy, is a small chrome bar fitted with a nut on one end. Several of the nuts have fallen off mid clamping, making for some frustration. I tightened all these and glued them now as I don't plan on needing to remove them anytime soon.
- The long bars will twist sometimes on wide glue ups- especially if they are on top of a glue up- when they are on the deck its less of a problem
- Occasionally I have issues with the wood "climbing" up the clamp face as things tighten up. It looks like some of the faces seat on the bar at more than a 90 degree angle.
- Adding cork to the orange pads helps with that problem, and avoids the staining issue others mentioned.

Sounds like I hate them, but I don't. I have some old Jorgensen's of a similar design that are loads better, but they cost me $10 each for 36" from an old tool dealer and he only had 2. For the money, these are great
- even allowing for one being basically useless- I still got 19 clamps for a great deal. Most of the time they work perfectly well and they are my "go grab" clamps for most occasions (I actually prefer them to my much larger Bessey clones from Woodcraft). The fact of life is that I will probably replace these over a period of time with better quality clamps, but in the meantime they have earned there purchase price 10 times over.

regards

Mike

[Randy Klein]

Mike,

I was motivated by your post to go out and see how many of these clamps have issues. My test consisted of simply spinning the screw forward and back while the clamp was both rightside up and upside down.

Out of the 20 (10 long, 10 short) only 1 had the binding issues. It just so happened that was the first I pulled out last night. A few had some difficulty turning, but a little oil on the screw solved that problem for those.

So thinking I had maybe been a little too critical, I decided to do a mock dry fit (if there is such a thing) to evaluate how Light duty this are. I have two 2 x 4-1/8' x 10'6" SYP that had a little bow to them. I figured if I could clamp out the bow, it'd be all good. Now I wouldn't normally do this for real since they haven't been jointed or planed, but mind you, it was just quick and dirty test.

I had 4 more clamps that started binding up when they made contact with the wood. These clamps had spun freely just a few minutes ago, but not so much when they actually need to clamp. The remainder clamps were fine.

An additional test to see how much bow was taken out, I used a jet parallel next to one of the LV ones and clamped down. The small gap that had been there was clamped out by the Jet. I did the same next to another LV clamp using a Rockler pipe clamp. Same thing. So I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that except that these clamps are light duty, which is how they were advertised.

But 5 out of 20 failures is too much for me, so I'll be returning these not for their light dutiness, but the binding.

If anyone else has these clamps and they don't bind up on you, I imagine a well fit joint would be no problem for them.

[Chris Padilla]

LV did claim they sold out of these last time so they must not have had too many returns. I'll give mine a run through this weekend and report back to this thread.

[Rick Thom]

Not wishing to hi-jack the thread, but since we are talking clamps... I noticed the Announcement in the LV monthly catalogue regarding Bessey K-body's being discontinued and a new model K-body "Revo" to be introduced and available later in the summer. It said the redesigned model will be dimensionally different.