Veneer cutting

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi All, I need some help with cutting veneers as far as joining two pieces for a panel. I've used a veneer saw and got ragged crooked edges. And I've tried the router method where you sandwich the veneers between two boards. But when I put the two edges together, they do not make a good joint. Any help in jointing veneers would be much appreciated . Thanks Alan in Md.

[Chris Padilla]

Hi All, I need some help with cutting veneers as far as joining two pieces for a panel. I've used a veneer saw and got ragged crooked edges. And I've tried the router method where you sandwich the veneers between two boards. But when I put the two edges together, they do not make a good joint. Any help in jointing veneers would be much appreciated . Thanks Alan in Md.

Alan,

When you sandwich the veneers, you are sandwiching the two veneers together, right? You cut them both at the same time, right?

When you sandwich them, be sure to do it as a bookmatch...put the two faces that will be seen towards each other (like the pages of a book) and then sandwhich that stack between two other boards. Adjust the veneers so that you barely take anything off of them and be sure you are using a good, clean sharp flush-trim bit or pattern bit.

For the boards creating the sandwich, be sure they are lined up perfectly flush with each other and they match each other. To do this, clamp or better yet, screw the two boards together and use one as a reference to trim the other so they are exactly the same. The reference board doesn't even need to be perfect just so long as the two boards are the same. The TS could accomplish this, too.

As a matter of fact, you could sandwich the veneers between the two boards and run an edge through the TS. Don't just take a small bite...cut like a 1/2" to 1" into the board (be sure to correctly position the veneers within). With a good sharp blade, I think you'll be in business.

[Mike Palmer]

Alan, when cutting veneer it is important that your reference is very straight. I always sandwich my veneer for final trimming with a router.

Below are the rules I follow when trimming veneer:
1. Use a staight two flute or greater bit and climb cut the veneer. Don't use a spiral cutter.
2. The sandwhich needs to be tight and secure.
3. The reference staight edge needs to be perfectly straight. If not, when you open your book match, the error will be double. If you only need to route two pieces, you can flip the second piece end for end. This will keep any irregularities from doubling.
4. Final trimming of the veneer needs to be limited to approximately 1/16". This will produce a cleaner cut while climbing.
5. Use a small piece of sand paper to remove the fuzz before you open the sandwich.

I made and used my own jig for years. Then, I found a jig that works great for cutting veneer especially when you want to cut long pieces. See link below.
http://www.jointability.com/s/static/jointability_one/jointability_one.htm

I hope this helps.

Mike Palmer

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Chris, Thanks for answering. Yes I am sandwiching the two veneers like you describe using 3/4 MDF and clamps on either end. I'm thinking I don't have enough pressure in the middle.

I'll try what you suggest and see how it goes.

Thanks again. Alan




When you sandwich the veneers, you are sandwiching the two veneers together, right? You cut them both at the same time, right?

When you sandwich them, be sure to do it as a bookmatch...put the two faces that will be seen towards each other (like the pages of a book) and then sandwhich that stack between two other boards. Adjust the veneers so that you barely take anything off of them and be sure you are using a good, clean sharp flush-trim bit or pattern bit.

For the boards creating the sandwich, be sure they are lined up perfectly flush with each other and they match each other. To do this, clamp or better yet, screw the two boards together and use one as a reference to trim the other so they are exactly the same. The reference board doesn't even need to be perfect just so long as the two boards are the same. The TS could accomplish this, too.

As a matter of fact, you could sandwich the veneers between the two boards and run an edge through the TS. Don't just take a small bite...cut like a 1/2" to 1" into the board (be sure to correctly position the veneers within). With a good sharp blade, I think you'll be in business.[/QUOTE]

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Chris, Thanks for all the info. Which Jointability did you get? That jig seems like a great idea.

I'm going to incorporate all your suggestions into my technique and see if I can get a good joint for once.

Thanks Alan in Md.



Alan, when cutting veneer it is important that your reference is very straight. I always sandwich my veneer for final trimming with a router.

Below are the rules I follow when trimming veneer:
1. Use a staight two flute or greater bit and climb cut the veneer. Don't use a spiral cutter.
2. The sandwhich needs to be tight and secure.
3. The reference staight edge needs to be perfectly straight. If not, when you open your book match, the error will be double. If you only need to route two pieces, you can flip the second piece end for end. This will keep any irregularities from doubling.
4. Final trimming of the veneer needs to be limited to approximately 1/16". This will produce a cleaner cut while climbing.
5. Use a small piece of sand paper to remove the fuzz before you open the sandwich.

I made and used my own jig for years. Then, I found a jig that works great for cutting veneer especially when you want to cut long pieces. See link below.
http://www.jointability.com/s/static/jointability_one/jointability_one.htm

I hope this helps.

Mike Palmer

[Mike Palmer]

Alan, I decided to go with the 8 ft version which is the one in the middle. Occasionally, I work with long veneers and I wanted the capacity to trim it. However, 98% of the time, the smaller 5 ft version would work for most applications. If you decide to purchase you will need to put a scrap piece of MDF on the bottom to provide the sandwich. The Melamine partical board is the top surface. The neat thing about the jig is it has a slight vertical bow in the center that helps to keeep things tight along the entire lenth of veneer.

Mike Palmer

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Mike, I'm sorry for calling you Chris. Brain fade I guess. :) What do you use your jointablility jig for besides veneers? Is it really accurate for jointing boards for panel glue up? Maybe I won't have to lust after that 8" jointer after all. Alan in Md.





Alan, I decided to go with the 8 ft version which is the one in the middle. Occasionally, I work with long veneers and I wanted the capacity to trim it. However, 98% of the time, the smaller 5 ft version would work for most applications. If you decide to purchase you will need to put a scrap piece of MDF on the bottom to provide the sandwich. The Melamine partical board is the top surface. The neat thing about the jig is it has a slight vertical bow in the center that helps to keeep things tight along the entire lenth of veneer.

Mike Palmer

[John Miliunas]

Alan, I decided to go with the 8 ft version which is the one in the middle. Occasionally, I work with long veneers and I wanted the capacity to trim it. However, 98% of the time, the smaller 5 ft version would work for most applications. If you decide to purchase you will need to put a scrap piece of MDF on the bottom to provide the sandwich. The Melamine partical board is the top surface. The neat thing about the jig is it has a slight vertical bow in the center that helps to keeep things tight along the entire lenth of veneer.

Mike Palmer

Mike, you've really sparked my interest on this "Jointability" jig. I too am approaching the veneer stage of a project and, not having a whole lot of experience with it, any "ace" in my hand would be a big help! I guess one of the biggest questions I have for you is, exactly what router bit are you using? Is it one of the high-end ones the company sells "for" the jig or something most of us may have in our bit collection? Regardless, thanks much for the post! I had not even been aware of such an animal! :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,
I use a top bearing flush cut w/ 2 flutes....sorry you didn,t ask me did you, oh well
If you are joining veneered panels to other panels or solid edges...start with oversized sheets and cut to the finished sixe on the table saw, or an eigth over and trim with the router bit, Even the Tru Grip clamp works good

[John Miliunas]

John,
I use a top bearing flush cut w/ 2 flutes....sorry you didn,t ask me did you, oh well
If you are joining veneered panels to other panels or solid edges...start with oversized sheets and cut to the finished sixe on the table saw, or an eigth over and trim with the router bit, Even the Tru Grip clamp works good

Hi Mark, don't be "sorry"! You already *know* I value your input! OK, so top bearing/flush cut/2 flutes. I understand the oversize part and all, but will that bit work well for matching up two pieces well enough for bookmatching on the same piece of substrate? :cool:

[Mike Palmer]

Alan: The jig is very accurate for producing a straight edge. It will definately give you the ability to joint wide boards.. no problem. It won't, however, give you the ability to produce a flat face. I have used it a few times on solid wood when I had an extremely bowed board. It was easier to hog it off on the jig than making multiple passes on the jointer. The jig was designed as a jointer alternative. Personally, I have grown to like it for trimming veneer. Another note: if you deside to use it on solid wood, use a circular saw first against the fence then follow up with a 1/2" upcut spiral on the router.

John: When trimming veneer, I alway use a standard 1/2" two flute straight cutter. It does not have to be a high end bit but it should be sharp. I have tried different bits but to me the best result come from the straight flute bits and climb cutting. If you have any other questions about veneering, let me know. I will help you the best I can.

Mike Palmer

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Very interesting Mike. As far as bits go I read on vacupress.com that an Amana bit was really good. It's a four flute and I can look up the no. if anybody's interested. I just order a 3 flute one from MLCS so I'll see how it does. I followed your suggestions and got better results. One problem I have is dull plane blades. I don't have a good sharpening method even though I should at this point. I got a little tear out with the plane so I stuck out the veneers about another 1/32" and sanded it down to the sandwich MDF. It came out much better. I taped it together and it looked pretty good to me. Thanks for you help. Alan



Alan: The jig is very accurate for producing a straight edge. It will definately give you the ability to joint wide boards.. no problem. It won't, however, give you the ability to produce a flat face. I have used it a few times on solid wood when I had an extremely bowed board. It was easier to hog it off on the jig than making multiple passes on the jointer. The jig was designed as a jointer alternative. Personally, I have grown to like it for trimming veneer. Another note: if you deside to use it on solid wood, use a circular saw first against the fence then follow up with a 1/2" upcut spiral on the router.

John: When trimming veneer, I alway use a standard 1/2" two flute straight cutter. It does not have to be a high end bit but it should be sharp. I have tried different bits but to me the best result come from the straight flute bits and climb cutting. If you have any other questions about veneering, let me know. I will help you the best I can.

Mike Palmer

[Chris Padilla]

I have the 8'+ Joint-Ability. This is a heavy, cumbersome sucker to have around a 2-car garage "shop." I'd sure like to figure out some easy storage or some kind of "ironing board" stowage for it.

Maybe I'm not good with my hand-held router or something but I have a hard time getting a good clean edge along that length. I always seem to tip the router a bit--like when adjusting your feet to move along. If you think about it, you have less than half the router base riding on the melamine top. A D-handle helps improve things. I think what I need is more practice and perhaps some kind of weight to add to the router to help balance it better.

John Lucas at www.woodshopdemos.com (http://www.woodshopdemos.com) has done a fair amount with his JA so peruse his sight and learn from him.

If veneering is your idea of use for this, get the smaller one. If you think you might want to make an 8' table someday with long stock, then try out the 8' but it is a big heavy sucker. To be frank, I've thought about selling it since I haven't used it much and I am now seriously looking into a J/P combo machine from Felder, Hammer, or Mini-Max. :D

[John Miliunas]

If veneering is your idea of use for this, get the smaller one. If you think you might want to make an 8' table someday with long stock, then try out the 8' but it is a big heavy sucker. To be frank, I've thought about selling it since I haven't used it much and I am now seriously looking into a J/P combo machine from Felder, Hammer, or Mini-Max. :D

After checking out the site, that's one of the first things I noted. Somehow, I just can't envision myself doing a lot of stuff that big and, even if I do build something of that size, it will probably be broke down into a couple pieces, anyway. May just have to look a bit more seriously into the shorter one. The BIG 'un, I think, would be too cumbersome to use comfortable, unless one had the room for a permanent setup. For me, if it's too much hassle to use, I won't! :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

The BIG 'un, I think, would be too cumbersome to use comfortable, unless one had the room for a permanent setup. For me, if it's too much hassle to use, I won't! :cool:

Can you spot the JA in this picture? :)

[John Miliunas]

Can you spot the JA in this picture? :)

OK, never seen one, per se, but I'll take a stab at it. Would it be that long object, hanging horizontally just above and to the right of the Bessey clamp collection? :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Yep...I put it up there, oh, 6 months ago...haven't really needed it since so I am thinking to unload it but I dunno. I'm sure I'll want it as soon as its gone.... :D

[John Miliunas]

I'm sure I'll want it as soon as its gone.... :D

LOL! Yeah, that's the way it typically happens. Or, in my case, I'll virtually be tripping over something for months, but when I need it, do you think I can remember where I put the dern thing?! :cool:

[Mike Palmer]

Chris: the eight foot version is big and little cumbersum. I keep mine on the far right side of the outfeed table of the tablesaw (looking from the front of the saw). When I want to use it, I just slide it to the end of the outfeed or onto my workbench. I also have a two-car garage shop and space is a premium. Putting up that high would make it extremely difficult to use. I don't pick mine up. I just slide it... then clamp it.