Well check out this BCTW new thingamagadget

[Doug Shepard]

Interesting looking setup
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/What's+New/Jointmaker+Pro
Doesn't have a price listed yet, but it's BCTW so $Kaching$

[Peter Quinn]

Now that is cool...but how much?

[Mike SoRelle]

That looks really really really cool though....

Besides, it's not festool, how much could it be? :D

[Ron Dunn]

That is CLEVER!

I've spend countless hours musing over how I could turn a Nobex (or similar) mitre saw into something that could cut repeatable dovetails, for example, and never solved the problem.

Here's an idea that probably does all that and more.

Can't wait to see the price :)

[Bruce Page]

Very clever.

[Carl Fox]

Very cool. However, can you imagine the injuries? I say this because the demo shows him using is hands, instead of a clamp.

You seem to have to push the workpiece down, against the fence, and toward the blade. With something like that one little slip and owwie.

With a TS or BS the blade does the work, so I can plan out push sticks, clamps, etc.

I dunno, I kind of a clutz.

[Mike SoRelle]

Very cool. However, can you imagine the injuries? I say this because the demo shows him using is hands, instead of a clamp.

You seem to have to push the workpiece down, against the fence, and toward the blade. With something like that one little slip and owwie.

With a TS or BS the blade does the work, so I can plan out push sticks, clamps, etc.

I dunno, I kind of a clutz.


Well the difference is how hard are you going to push when it's totally under your control how much you cut yourself against an inanimate object?

That said, this might be the perfect tool for the emo woodworker :)

The TS, BS, etc doesn't even know our pitifuly soft flesh is there (with the exception of the sawstop of course)

[Dave Lehnert]

I will hold off for the Shop Notes version LOL!!!!

[Ron Dunn]

Looks like it will cost around $1000.

Review here:

http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/First+Look+The+Bridge+City+Jointmaker+Pro.aspx

I still want one :)

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Within 30 seconds of having it set up, I would:

1. Slice my finger halfway off (and I bet there's a lot of that done - one good push with your finger in the wrong place and the cut might not be as ragged as a table saw but I can see being about as deep).

2. Try to cut a nail embedded in a board (with a carbide tipped blade I can usually get by with one or two)

3. Drop something heavy and made out of metal on it. (been there, done that)

[Doug Shepard]

Looks like it will cost around $1000.
...

I still want one :)

And that's just the INTRO price according to the review. I knew it wouldn't be cheap. My Nobex might just be getting outsourced.



Very clever.
Folks, that sound you just heard was Bruce running out to his milling machine. trying to figure out how to make one of his own.:D

[Larry Browning]

That is really cool! However, It is priced WAY too high. I would pay maybe $200 for it. Maybe I'm just cheap, but I don't see $1000 for a saw clamp:eek:
This just reeks of knockoffs in a few years. I can also see a finish carpenter finding this very useful for trim work.

[Bill Huber]

That is cool and looks really neat. It always gets me how someone can come up with these new tools.

Now I do see a problem right off, there is no DC port and I don't see a power cord on it, and we all know if there is no power cord then what good is it....:D

[Dave Norris]

It doesn't look like they cut anything very thick with it, although I didn't get to see the demo the whole way through...

[Amy Leigh Baker]

Shouldn't this thread be over in Neanderthal ;)

[Alan Turner]

Both Bridge City and Sawstop are in Portland, and so I am guessing that the collaboration will soon be announced. But, to save the valuable handsaw, I am thinking the brake material will be something akin to a sanding belt cleaner. John Economaki is a clever and persistent tool designer. Their site also lists a forthcoming honing jig which looks to be of some interest.

[Ron Dunn]

Amy, perhaps Cro Magnon instead of Neanderthal ... an evolutionary step, rather than a Neanderthal dead end.

*grin*

[Don Bullock]

That does look like an interesting saw, but not at $1000. I also noticed that the person doing the demos used mostly very soft wood for the cuts.

[Craig Summers]

now if they added a gizmo that raised the blade after each cut (on the pull back stroke) so that thicker cuts could be made, and the depth of cut per stroke could be adjusted for different woods and sharpening skills. :p

Not sure if this could be used to make the stopped cut in flat tenon, with the saw slope, unless they only slope the entry portion of the saw blade

I am baffled that there are no micrometers or sliding side table for this, to be this precise with a handsaw ...... They might need a new brand name, as Festool is only known for power tools, and this is pricey even for BCTW standards:rolleyes:

Maybe this could be moved to the CroMagnum section .....

[Shawn Honeychurch]

Very interesting tool, I can see this being a great starting point for some really smart tool designers (festool are you listening), to make a new tool that really blows away the hand saw for finishing work.

Give it a year or two and someone will make one we all have to have.

[Ben Cadotte]

$1,000 for a hand powered mini table saw?? Hmm guess they are going for the high markup / fewer sales economic model. Next question is how much is a replacement blade, or sharpening? $1,000 and the gears for raising the blade look to be plastic. Not very many parts in it. Where is the cost comming from?? Couple hundred dollar range, but I see nothing to warrant $1,000 especially with plastic gears.

[Jeff Dunlap]

that is pretty cool but i agree way over priced, your not cheap. i would say 200-300 hundred i mean its a handsaw mounted to a table on a trunnion with a miter gage and sled, i just bought a 6" grizzly jointer and a 14" 1.5 hp grizzly bandsaw for 1150 delivered and this is 1000.

[Mike Henderson]

Wait for Release 2. That one is suppose to come with the SawStop brake in case your finger hits the blade. Of course, the price on that one is $4K:)

Mike

[Mike SoRelle]

They could always look into the name Lesstool at that price point :)

[Gary Lange]

I can see that in my shop someday when the price comes down. It looks pretty slick.

[Carl Fox]

Makes me wonder if someone could make a TS blade that acted like a Japanese backsaw.

Really narrow kerf, lots of teeth. That could take a finger off and you wouldn't even feel it!

[Peter Quinn]

That price tag might be just the incentive I need to improve my skills with the back saw. I always prefer the blade is not facing me when using not motorized tools.

As to the hardness of wood being cut in the demo I saw they were using white oak (was labeled OAK) to cut dovetail pins.

[jim oakes]

I would like a bigger version ( I know it would cost $10,000 or so), for resawing veneers from 12' long planks.

It may take awhile to cut a slice but:
1- It would be quiet.
2- Everone needs more exercise as they age.
3- Someone is sure to make a hand pumped dust collector to mate with it.
4- When I start to slice into my finger , the pain sensation would be a low cost SawStop.

[Bill Wyko]

Well, I'll have to stick with my Powermatic Table saw and an Incra fence. Bought both for far less.:D

[Dave Bureau]

For $1000., its got to have a motor on it somewhere.;):D

[Bob Knodel]

$1,000 for a hand powered mini table saw?? Hmm guess they are going for the high markup / fewer sales economic model. Next question is how much is a replacement blade, or sharpening? $1,000 and the gears for raising the blade look to be plastic. Not very many parts in it. Where is the cost comming from?? Couple hundred dollar range, but I see nothing to warrant $1,000 especially with plastic gears.

My thoughts exactly.

[John Lucas]

Shouldn't this thread be over in Neanderthal ;)

Amy, good point. that wass my feeling when I first saw it, I am glad that it is
here, cause I would have missed it and I have already asked Bridge for a unit to review.

[Shawn Honeychurch]

Those plastic gears must be made of a very special formula for the unit to cost so much. Either that or the cost includes 300 replacements plastic gears. :D

[Shawn Honeychurch]

$1,000 for a hand powered mini table saw?? Hmm guess they are going for the high markup / fewer sales economic model. Next question is how much is a replacement blade, or sharpening? $1,000 and the gears for raising the blade look to be plastic. Not very many parts in it. Where is the cost comming from?? Couple hundred dollar range, but I see nothing to warrant $1,000 especially with plastic gears.

From John's blog:

The gears are nylon and pressed onto two knurled, anodized aluminum shafts and two black oxide steel shafts that pass through the keel. They are a stock item and can be purchased in small quantities for under $5 (in today’s dollars) It’s a low rpm, no load transmission so the wear factor is likely not an issue in our lifetime–it is very smooth running. The shafts run in acetal bearings. The Jointmaker Pro will ship unassembled so familiarity with the tool will be gained during assembly.

Shawn

[Doug Shepard]

...I am glad that it is
here, cause I would have missed it and I have already asked Bridge for a unit to review.

I debated where to post this and opted for the bigger audience. Plus the first thing that came to my mind was that this might be a hit in the picture framing market (not something I normally associate with the Neanderthals). I wonderied about this being a possible hit with luthiers too due to the small parts and tight tolerances they work with. I doubt this has much appeal to true Neanders as it doesn't require much in the way of Neander skills. It's a cool tool wherever the thread is.

[Randy Klein]

There's a similar thread going on in the Neanderthal section already, so I guess we got it all covered.

[Carl Fox]

Those plastic gears must be made of a very special formula for the unit to cost so much. Either that or the cost includes 300 replacements plastic gears. :D

could they be UHDP?

[Chris Padilla]

There's a similar thread going on in the Neanderthal section already, so I guess we got it all covered.

Uh-oh, crossposting!!!!! Should we combine both threads into one big mess of a thread? I have the power...the power to really screw things up! LOL :o

I think we'll get differing viewpoints in each one so life's good. :D

[Bruce Page]

And that's just the INTRO price according to the review. I knew it wouldn't be cheap. My Nobex might just be getting outsourced.



Folks, that sound you just heard was Bruce running out to his milling machine. trying to figure out how to make one of his own.:D
LOL Doug! Maybe after I retire, I'll have the time!

[Doug Shepard]

I've bought a few things from BCTW but have never opted to pay for their Founders Club membership (currently $45 for 1 year). They got prices posted now and:
The introductory price will be $1095 (FC $995).
$1295 vs $1165.50 (FC) after the intro

Kind of makes the FC a no-brainer this time if you're going to buy one.

[John Shuk]

I think it looks great. I don't see that as a high price really. It is alot of money but I'm sure the quality is top notch. There are alot of people who do small precise work who will love this thing. It seems like it would be great for luthiers as well.

[Carl Fox]

From John's blog:

...The Jointmaker Pro will ship unassembled so familiarity with the tool will be gained during assembly.

Shawn

The fact it saves assembly and shipping costs has nothing to do with it. Kind of like charging extra for a BMW because it arrives at your house in a bunch of crates. Also it allows for lighter-weight construction since the parts won't have to survive shipping. Sounds like a win-win for the manufacturer.

Or, paying extra for my Jet Air Filter because the fan cage arrives bent. So I could experience the joy of disassembling it and truing the cage.

-- cynical old curmudgeon

[Doug Shepard]

Did y'all get yer Economaki Stimulus Package check yet?:D

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
>$1K - plastic gears and it ships in pieces you put together?
Barnum was right.

[George B. Tracy]

I'm still backed up about Festools' "biscuit jointer" with a motor and $XXXX entry fee---I think I'd rather go spend the money on some really expensive Japanese slicks. (Waits patiently)

[Larry Browning]

Are you listening BridgeCity??? This sounds like a great opportunity for someone like Grizzly to come up with a knock off and make lots of money. Maybe even make it better for 1/4 the price. Heck, I'd bet even Festool could do it for 3/4 the price and it would have great duct collection to boot!!!!

[Ron Dunn]

Chris Schwarz addressed this nay-saying in the comments following his blog entry about this tool:


... And so here's how it really works: Someone introduces a new tool, and everyone poo-poos it as too expensive before they have seen it (Lie-Nielsen, Veritas and Holtey were earlier examples -- believe it). Then the tool finds its audience and people see what it does. It succeeds or it fails.

This tool is an improved miter box. And if you can cut wood as well as this tool, my hat is off to you. I sure can't do it. Nor can my table saw. Nor can a plunge router...

How true this is!

Someone comes up with a great new idea. NEW idea. And all some of you can do is complain about the price, or think about ripping off his design.

[Larry Browning]

Chris Schwarz addressed this nay-saying in the comments following his blog entry about this tool:

... And so here's how it really works: Someone introduces a new tool, and everyone poo-poos it as too expensive before they have seen it (Lie-Nielsen, Veritas and Holtey were earlier examples -- believe it). Then the tool finds its audience and people see what it does. It succeeds or it fails.

This tool is an improved miter box. And if you can cut wood as well as this tool, my hat is off to you. I sure can't do it. Nor can my table saw. Nor can a plunge router... How true this is!

Someone comes up with a great new idea. NEW idea. And all some of you can do is complain about the price, or think about ripping off his design.

Well, all I can say is I guess you think I am just cheap and don't appreciate quality. And to be fair, I also think you are correct to a certain extent. I do not own a tool from any of the mfg. you mentioned except for Veritas. I have a couple of their bench dogs. I also do not own Festool and many other "top of the line" tools. I drive a Toyota, not a BMW, not because I don't like the quality, but because I have a limited budget, and also I think the we as a society put way too much value on that label attached to the products we buy. If I am going to have the tools and "stuff" to do the things I want to do in life, I cannot own all these "name brands" things, especially when there are other brands that will do the job just as well (or almost as well). My farther once told me to always try to buy in the middle , Don't buy cheap, it ends up costing you more in the long run, but also stay away from the top of the line as well. Most of the time this only means bell and whistles that you probably won't use anyway. This way I can own 5 or six different hand tools that do all sorts of things or just 1 Festool that does one thing REALLY well.
Oh, well, I could go on and on about this subject, but I have to go to work now to earn that precious money that I never seem to have enough of.

[Don Bullock]

...
Someone comes up with a great new idea. NEW idea. And all some of you can do is complain about the price, or think about ripping off his design...

Perhaps it is as you say " a great idea." Only time will tell if you are right. As for the price, yes many here seem to think that it is "high" for the tool. Here, as well, only time will tell if it is. We'll see if they continue to be offered and if the price holds. Time will also be a big determining factor in the durability of the tool as well as how the blades hold up. Sure, there may be some who will jump at the opportunity to purchase a new tool like this because they either love to buy new tools or they have a specific need, but for the average woodworker, it's not priced right. It does look like a tool that could easily be duplicated by others, depending on the status of the patients, at a more reasonable price. That's the nature of our "market."

Bottom line for me:
Would I like t have one and could I put it to use? Yes.
Will I buy one at that price? No

[Will Blick]

Don, as you probably know, BCT will never be a low priced tool maker. Their claim to fame is high end, well designed and unique tools. Like all new products, the goal of the maker is to patent it, to avoid competition, then make a decent profit, something which is very difficult with 10 competitors breathing down your neck.

Time will tell if the Asians will make something similar. With saw patents going back hundreds of years, i wonder just how strong a patent can be for a product like this. My guess is, this tool has similar concepts patented 100+ years ago, as before the advent of power tools, this concept was even more valuable...

[matthew Roberts]

I agree with the others. Neat concept...for a few hundred. But 1000 bucks? Waterjet aluminum and off the shelf gears they must not expect to sell very many so they raise the price to compensate?

[Dave Lehnert]

OK be honest.....

How many has been in the shop at least trying to come up with something like it?

[Larry Rasmussen]

Well first I haven't done the homework but have a first impression. When we had less income I looked at the Jorgenson specialty miter saws and asked my wife to buy me one for Christmas- a hundred bucks or so. I am not a great craftsman but pretty patient and willing to read instructions twice if I have to. I could do better cuts by hand with a back saw, worst tool I've ever owned. After a suitable period of mourning it went to Good Will. Next was this combo package from Japanese woodworker- a nobex "precision" saw guide and japanese saw sold as a combo. The nobex was off at 90 degrees and actually broke eventually.

Since I love to work and listen to NPR or music on the radio I have wanted to be able to make a precision cut without having to fire up a piece of machinery and the dust collector. If these guys have a retail location in Portland maybe next time we run down from Seattle I'll take a look. Really hard to imaging results without a lot of set up time but if it felt good in the hand and had some complicated stuff hanging off it to make it look valuable........ So if they (credit card company) send me one of those no payment for two year offers on the credit card it would only be $42 or so a month and well.........probably no way but it would be cool if the product was really that impressive. There really is nothing else that can do it that I've found.

Larry R
Seattle

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

It would be so much easier to justify if they would just make it in Festool Green....

I stumbled into a retail store for Bridgeport many years ago on a sales call, but, looking at their website, any type of address is very absent leading me to believe that they no longer welcome visits. Too bad, it was an interesting store, part of the shop itself, stuck away in a very strange building right off the banfield.

I really dislike websites that do not list an address and quite often, phone numbers...often times won't buy from them for that reason only. I like to have an idea where something might be shipped from, helps me calculate shipping time.

Doug

[Ron Dunn]

Doug Jones, here is the location of Bridge City Toolworks:

http://www.bridgecitytoolworks.info/directions

Note that this is not Bridgeport.

According to a post I read in the Festool Owners' forum, the Jointmaker Pro will be manufactured in Oregon, and presumably shipped from there as well.

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

My error. I meant Bridgecity in my original post...just got my bridges mixed up which is easy to do in Portland. Thank you Ron.

According to the directions, they have moved their office. Wonder if production is still in the same old building it was years ago?

At least now we know where to go to look at the new gizmo when it is released.

Doug

[Doug Shepard]

...Wonder if production is still in the same old building it was years ago?
...


I read an email quote from the owner on the Festool Owner Group site that said they're going to be made in Idaho.

[Ron Dunn]

Doug (Shepard), you're right, it was Idaho.