Embarassing thread for Japanese chisel owners

[Duncan Potter]

Embarassing for me, not you.

After all the discussion here on western vs japanese chisels, I decided to buy one Japanese style chisel to try out.

It showed up today, so I ran down to the basement to set it up and try it out. It came covered with some sort of clear lacquer protectant, so I got out my trusty scary sharp stuff to take off the lacquer and put a hone on it.....

then I dropped it.....

On the concrete floor....
:mad::mad::mad:

I didn't see it hit, and it really doesn't look like it took a direct blow to the edge, but there are little tiny chips taken out of the edge all along its width (3/8 or so).

So I brought out some heavier grit (220) and ground back the bevel. Went up through the grits and finally to my waterstones, got a nice polish, but the little "teeth" are still there:mad:

So, question is, can I use scary sharp with the japanese chisel? Do I have to start over again?

DANG!!!!!!

[Chris Padilla]

I hope you didn't chip the concrete, Duncan!!

;)

[Mike Henderson]

You should be able to sharpen it with essentially any sharpening device. The steel in Japanese chisels is just a bit harder than western chisels but it's not so hard that you'd need something like a diamond stone to sharpen it. Regular sharpening things like oil stones, water stones, or scary sharp will work fine - also any of the water cooled powered sharpening tools.

Just remember to put a bit more of a bevel on it than you would on a western chisel.

Mike

[Dan Racette]

Just re-establish what was there.

What we really need to know is, how slow did time move from the point of falling to the point you heard it impact? Was it a feeling of infinity? Do you feel as if you could have run a marathon in between?? Just saw a discovery channel series about the brain, and it talks about how it "slows time" and I was wondering if you experienced it.

So...where did you get the chisel from?

Dan

[John Dykes]

You didn't "drop it..."

You were merely testing the edge retention properties by chopping dovetails in a thick, exotic piece of cement.

And thanks for the test, I'll stick with my Western style chisels.

- jbd

[Dan Racette]

You didn't "drop it..."

You were merely testing the edge retention properties by chopping dovetails in a thick, exotic piece of cement.

And thanks for the test, I'll stick with my Western style chisels.

- jbd

BAAAAHaaahaaa ha haa

Very well scribed!

[Dan Racette]

IF THERE ARE NO PICS....IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

That is to say. If you don't post pics of the chisel soon. We must conclude that you have no chisel!

At least that's what I have been led to believe around here!

Dan:D

[Chris Padilla]

I wanna see the concrete floor...see how it is doing....

[Mike Henderson]

Well, at least you didn't try to catch it during the fall. That might have been more expensive than buying a new chisel.

Mike

[Dan Racette]

Well, at least you didn't try to catch it during the fall. That might have been more expensive than buying a new chisel.

Mike

Hmm...

Just once, and you will most likely never try it again.

said the man with nine fingers. (I really have 10, thank you).

d

[Duncan Potter]

I really feel the love!

Does anyone remember Jean Shepards Christmas Story when Ralphie drops the lug nuts and then comes out with "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH @@@!$+)(Q*$)*Q@#Q*@_*_Q*#_Q*_*Q@_$" in real slow motion? It was just like that!

[David DeCristoforo]

Well that's not a very good test. Concrete is way too hard for any woodworking chisel. I could have told you that "up front".

But, since you have to deal with it now, you can grind the blade on whatever you want. Just do it slowly in stages. Don't let the steel get hot or you will completely ruin the temper. The blade should not get more than "mildly warm" in your hand. And try not to grind so much steel off that you get into the hollow on the back of the blade or you will have a whole 'nother "can of worms" to deal with.

[Duncan Potter]

When I recover my composure I will go back at it with my flat plate and wet and dry. I do it all by hand so it will not get too hot. At 400 and above, I lubricate with water.

I got it from the Japan Woodworker 3/8" Blue Steel Chisel - Miyanaga.

[Dan Racette]

I really feel the love!

Does anyone remember Jean Shepards Christmas Story when Ralphie drops the lug nuts and then comes out with "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH @@@!$+)(Q*$)*Q@#Q*@_*_Q*#_Q*_*Q@_$" in real slow motion? It was just like that!

I think that's about what thinking, at least along those lines. Well played!

[Steven Hardy]

When I recover my composure I will go back at it with my flat plate and wet and dry. I do it all by hand so it will not get too hot. At 400 and above, I lubricate with water.

I got it from the Japan Woodworker 3/8" Blue Steel Chisel - Miyanaga.

Ahhhh good ...I was going to say "make sure your Japanese chisel is not "made in China" i saw a Japanese square at Woodcraft that caught my eye...but the label said Made in China!!!!
:D

[Greg Cole]

Duncan,
My LN 60 1/2 met my concrete floor last winter & the corner of the sole lost that battle.
It'll be ok, you only took a couple years of life out of a tool meant to be around a couple centuries from now.

Greg

[Wilbur Pan]

It showed up today, so I ran down to the basement to set it up and try it out. It came covered with some sort of clear lacquer protectant, so I got out my trusty scary sharp stuff to take off the lacquer and put a hone on it.....

[truly horrifying experience snipped]

So, question is, can I use scary sharp with the japanese chisel? Do I have to start over again?

Couple of suggestions:

1. Use lacquer thinner to take the lacquer off the blade. Your fingers will like gripping the chisel without the lacquer there. Then oil it with something to prevent rusting. I like camellia oil. This won't make the grip slippery.

2. Really any method of sharpening can be used with a Japanese chisel: waterstones, diamond stones, oil stones, Scary Sharp. The one method I would stay away from is a grinder, as these chisels seem to be more sensitive to changing their temper from heat.

3. However you do it, make sure that those chips are completely gone. You'll be much happier.

[Chris Padilla]

C'mon, Folks!! How about some love for concrete!! It is an amazing material that has revolutionized the world over! :D :D :D

[John Thompson]

The worst injury I have had in WW over the years was instinctively trying to catch a dropped chisel. Mistake as I had gone on blood thinner just after getting a stent in my leg artery. Took two hours of compression in the emergency room just to stop the bleeding to get the stitches in.

Let em drop as it's cheaper as had already been mentioned.

Sarge..

[Wiley Horne]

Duncan,

Sorry that happened to you. I need to tell you about some saw accidents I have had to make you feel a little better. Like when I was doing some carpentry on a workmate, and had my nice $170 Chueymon 240mm ryoba from Hida Tool out cutting 2x6s I think it was. coupla 2x6s and the saw slid off the workmate at the same time. Again, it was one of those eternities, but you know it's all over even in that state of suspended belief and disbelief. 2x6 landed on saw. gonzo. snapped clean in two. I just said f____ it and walked off. I still have a few super nice scrapers I made from the remains of the saw--best scrapers I ever saw.

I have a few of those Miyanaga blue steel chisels from JWW. Mine were bought years ago, but it's probably the same steel. I have found that particular steel hard to grind back, so am not surprised that you're still working on it. It's going to take some elbow grease, I would suggest upending a belt sander in a vise to make the going a little faster. Or something equal. I do think you'll find those chisels will excel in edge retention, barring new matchups with concrete.

Are you using scary sharp, or did I dream that? Anyway, if so, please draw the chisel backward on the final couple of grits (stropping) fashion, using a light touch, to avoid dubbing the edge.

Hope this helps.

Wiley

[Stephen Shepherd]

The worst injury I have had in WW over the years was instinctively trying to catch a dropped chisel. Mistake as I had gone on blood thinner just after getting a stent in my leg artery. Took two hours of compression in the emergency room just to stop the bleeding to get the stitches in.

Let em drop as it's cheaper as had already been mentioned.

Sarge..

I too have cursed that fine substance concrete, however when I was an apprentise some 35 years ago, a chisel with a round handle rolled off my workbench and I instinctively caught it to prevent damage to the concrete floor. Well I saved the floor and chisel but my hand didn't do well, bad cut, no stitches.

I immediately and since then have replaced every handle with a tapered octagon handle and quit catching things. I no longer have the instinct to catch anything, it goes to the floor, I pick it up, curse and sharpen the tool, not bleed and get on with my work.

People have tossed me things and I pick them up off the floor, when they ask why I didn't catch it, I tell them the story.

The only drawback, I can't play catch.

Stephen

[Pam Niedermayer]

Wooden floors always help. As magical as is concrete, it's not all that appropriate for workshops.

Pam

[Chris Padilla]

Thank you, Pam!! Whoo-hoo!! ;)

[John Thompson]

Wooden floors always help. As magical as is concrete, it's not all that appropriate for workshops.

Pam

When I cut myself with the dropping chisel.. the floor is covered in inter-locking mat. Just instinctive reflex in my case.

BTW.. send money, I will cover the concrete under the mats with a false hardwood floor if you do. I promise! :D

Regards...

Sarge..

[Ethan Sincox]

I was thinking the laminate cork flooring might be a good alternative to the concrete floor in my shop. They install on top of concrete, so there isn't that to worry about, and they would save chisel tips, preventing the aforementioned embarassing situation.

They are a bit pricey unless you live near a Lumber Liquidators. Or, you can always make friends with the owner of a flooring company. In my case, a friend of mine owns a carpet and tile store, so I can get them at cost...

[Albert Wagner]

<snip>
So I brought out some heavier grit (220) and ground back the bevel. Went up through the grits and finally to my waterstones, got a nice polish, but the little "teeth" are still there:mad:
<snip>
DANG!!!!!!

Did you really look at the edge for the first time only after going up through the grits? I would have stayed on 220 until the chips were gone.

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

The worst injury I have had in WW over the years was instinctively trying to catch a dropped chisel. Mistake as I had gone on blood thinner just after getting a stent in my leg artery. Took two hours of compression in the emergency room just to stop the bleeding to get the stitches in.

Let em drop as it's cheaper as had already been mentioned.

Sarge..


When I was young, I once caught a hot soldering iron that was pulled off the bench by my foot snagging the cord. Once.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Not catching falling sharp objects has been engrained in me from childhood (thanks, Mom); so the best thing to do is practice mentally what you'll do when a chisel falls. I raise my arms and jump back. Probably a good thing I didn't have kids. :)

Pam

[David DeCristoforo]

"... raise my arms and jump back. Probably a good thing I didn't have kids...."

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/Misc/rofl.gif

[Eddie Darby]

Not catching falling sharp objects has been engrained in me from childhood (thanks, Mom); so the best thing to do is practice mentally what you'll do when a chisel falls. I raise my arms and jump back. Probably a good thing I didn't have kids. :)Pam

I did not have the benefit of having a Mom that could spend time with me teaching me these essential survival tactics, so instead I watched the Three Stooges.

The end result is that I don't bend down to quickly pick-up something that has fallen to the floor..........Oh and a tendency to Shuffle!:D

[James Mittlefehldt]

I he found through bitter experience that if something fals to the floor I don't grab for it but watch where it goes so I can find it and retrieve it after, partucularily those odd parts that would be hard to replace. Nine times out of ten if I grabbed for it it would go flying to parts unknown, never to be seen again.

I can also say that hands make very inadequate bench stops when chiseling, don't ask.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Hand grinding on whatever abrasive medium you please will do it - in time.
I'd use a belt sander or a grinding wheel to get the ugly stuff out.
Then hand hone it.

[Dan Racette]

One other thing...

Concrete, wood or other...Plus the learned skill of leaving your hands out of the way, one of us still has not yet mentioned feet. I had a chisel "score" my leather boots pretty nicely. I also know of someone else who does their wood work in sneakers, and a chisel wins that battle right to the skin.

So, to re-iterate. A falling tool reaction at my place really looks like some sort of 50's dance with the arm flailing out and the feet spreading back.

I'm told it's entertaining to watch, and painful, if standing behind.

Dan

[Harry Goodwin]

I have western and entered the japanese chisel club. My only complaint is that both my cheaper and more expensive Japanese chisels from the right places are not ground on the sides. I fixed it quickly but I never had to do that with English or US. I don't think it's the high point of their craftmanship. Harry

[Pam Niedermayer]

I have western and entered the japanese chisel club. My only complaint is that both my cheaper and more expensive Japanese chisels from the right places are not ground on the sides. I fixed it quickly but I never had to do that with English or US. I don't think it's the high point of their craftmanship. Harry

The arrises on all my Japanese chisels are sharp as can be.

Pam