Wood Suitable For Salt Water

[ROBERT FALK]

Esteemed colleagues

I've been asked to supply some White Oak hardwood strips to be used as bumpers at a local marina. The specifications are:

1"th x 2"w x 6-8' long and will run vertically so that 1/2 will be submerged and the other will be above sea-level.

I'm not sure if White Oak is the best solution but am open to suggestions.

[Mike SoRelle]

Ipe' or teak are about the only other things that come to mind, but I'm not sure what the difference in longevity would be across the selections, I do know there would be a significant price differential though.

What's the finishing plan, or is there a plan not to?

Mike

[Scott Loven]

The ship "Old Ironsides" was made from white oak as I understand it.

Scott

[ROBERT FALK]

Funny...being from the Toronto area It was never a consideration but now I'm on the coast I was surprised to hear that white oak was an option.

I had suggested Ipe and or Teak for their natural oily properties.

No finish was specified - what would you suggest on oak?

[Chris Padilla]

I'm thinking "milk jug" lumber. Wood and water...dem don't go together very well...for very long....

[Mike SoRelle]

Funny...being from the Toronto area It was never a consideration but now I'm on the coast I was surprised to hear that white oak was an option.

I had suggested Ipe and or Teak for their natural oily properties.

No finish was specified - what would you suggest on oak?

There's a lot of docks that have been built from white oak, so it should hold up fine, I'm not sure it would need a finish, there's not really any that would last any amout of time submerged in saltwater other than maybe coating it with some West system epoxy, if you just want the above water portion to look pretty for awhile, maybe some marine grade spar urethane. Ultimately though I think it's going to end up looking like weathered oak :)

Mike

[Mike SoRelle]

I'm thinking "milk jug" lumber. Wood and water...dem don't go together very well...for very long....

Chris has a point, you could use some strips of Trex or some other synthetic decking material, might be easier on the rub strips of docking boats too.

Mike

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I read this and saw 'teak' and thought......well, somebody beat me to it. Then for no good reason one of the engineered products like Trex came to mind later, and.....well, somebody beat me to it. :o I guess they have their reasons for specifying wood but wonder why they don't use something like rubber (old tires) like everyone else seem to use.

[William Addison]

You said hard wood and Cypress isn't all that hard but- - -

In far South Texas where where the Rio Grande used to enter the Gulf of Mexico, Zachary Taylor erected a floating bridge in 1847. He used untreated Cypress pilings to anchor the bridge and most of them are still there. This is a subtropical environment with borers, hurricanes, and a host of things that usually make wood short lived. I never cared much for Cypress until I saw those pilings and I became an instant fan. Might be worth considering.

[Scott Vigder]

The ship "Old Ironsides" was made from white oak as I understand it.

Scott


Quarter-sawn white oak, to be sure.

[Casey Calouette]

You may want to look into black locust. There was a recent project in my area to protect some habitat from a river. Granted it was freshwater but they specified black locust stating that it would last twice as long as any other wood. I also found a reference in an article on it...

"A Natural History of Trees of Eastern and Central North America (Houghton Mifflin Co., 1950): “In the first place almost the entire woody cylinder of the trunk is heartwood, always the strongest part of a tree. It is the seventh hardest in all our sylva and, as to strength in position of a beam, locust is the strongest in North America outside the tropics. It is the stiffest of our woods, exceeding hickory by 40 percent. Of all important hardwoods, black locust shrinks least in drying, losing only 10 percent volume ... It is the most durable of all our hardwoods; taking white oak as the standard of 100 percent, black locust has a durability of 250 percent. The wood takes such a high polish as to appear varnished. The fuel value of black locust is higher than any other American tree, exceeding even hickory and oak, being almost the equal, per cord at 20 percent moisture content, of a ton of anthracite coal.
“Yet with all these splendid qualities black locust is not even mentioned in the usual lumbering statistics. The chief reason is that the locust borer beetle (Megacyllene robiniae) is so ruinous in many regions that black locust is too seldom found in sound condition. In North America, but not in Europe, the infection is all but universal and no measures of control have had any effect. Locust boards are therefore almost unknown, and the only common uses has been for fence posts, railway ties, and small articles such as rake teeth, too handles, ladder rungs, and (in the days when such things were in common use) buggy whips and policemen’s clubs.”

Sorry for the wall of text there... but from other digging I've done it seems that it is recomended well. Might want to check out the USDA wood handbook, they may list more info.

[Joe Scharle]

Look up live oak too.

[Mike Heidrick]

Why not use plastic bumpers that are made for this purpose?

[Peter Quinn]

If you want to go deep into expensive look for morado (bolivian rosewood), pretty tough stuff, pretty expensive too unless your in south america with a saw. I was told most of it comes from old pilings that are pulled out of the muck and resawn, been buried in a swamp for 40 years and remains unaffected by the environment.

My understanding is that white oak does well when submerged, or when above the water line and kept dry, but not so well where it gets wet and dry in a continuing cycle, tends to lead quickly to dry rot. The maintenance schedule for a wooden boat might not be appropriate for a dock bumper.

I hear live oak is the most durable domestic as its actually a sub-tropical hardwood. My guess would be some modern resin based product or hard rubber would make the best bumper these days unless aesthetics or budget prohibit its use.

[M Toupin]

Bumpers are wear items, white oak is the typical choice. As you stated it was for a marina I'll assume large boats that stay in the water, not grandpa's jonhboat so they are going to take a lot of abuse. Bumpers are designed to take the beating and be replaced as needed. Forget the exotic woods and plastics and stick with the utilitarian you can replace every few years and not feel bad about.

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

Bumpers are wear items, white oak is the typical choice. As you stated it was for a marina I'll assume large boats that stay in the water, not grandpa's jonhboat so they are going to take a lot of abuse. Bumpers are designed to take the beating and be replaced as needed. Forget the exotic woods and plastics and stick with the utilitarian you can replace every few years and not feel bad about.

Mike

Oh, I thought we were having a sort of theoretical discussion about what might last a while in a marine environment. I seem to recall that few large boats actually stay in the water permanently, they all go to either dry dock for maintenance or to the bottom. Living in coastal New England I've seen plenty of tall ships in dry dock being repaired or refinished. Even NAVY subs need maintenance. Every thing marine has to be repaired eventually. I guess dock bumpers are the functional equivalent of pallets! Repair means replace!

If the client (commercial marina) specified white oak I'd give them what they asked for, and I'd probably look for #1 common flat sawn 8/4 to rip those 1X2's giving you the qrt sawn face as the wear face. #2 common has maybe too many knots? That's a cheap replaceable option that should wear out just about when its starting to rot and be quick to make. I'd guess that's why the client spec'ed WO.

[Adam Grills]

Tested and proven for over 100 years- White oak!
Adam

[Jacob Reverb]

White oak is waterproof and very UV-resistant. (They make whiskey barrels out of it, after all.) No finish is needed.

I suppose you could use teak, but at $15+/bf versus maybe $4 for slab sawn WO, I know what I would use...

Another alternative is iroko ("African teak") but again, for bumpers, WO is the no-brainer choice.

Just about all woods will eventually dry-rot along the waterline in freshwater, but not in saltwater.

[Lawrence Smith]

Try marine pressure treated lumber. That will hold up the best even when submerged in salt water. Practically all docks here in Florida are built out of it. Marine pressure treated lumber is different than the regular pressure treated that Home Depot sells. Find a lumber source that handles marine lumber and get it from them. White oak will not hold up for very long submerged in salt water.

my $.02

[Tony Bilello]

White oak is probably the best choice for bumpers. It will give you the most bang for the buck (pin intended). No sense buying gold flyswatters to kill cockroaches.
Teak will cost about 8 to 12 times as much and will not last 8 to 12 times as long.
As several already stated, Old Ironsides was built of white oak and we know from history, it is cannonball proof.
Tony B

[Steven Hardy]

White oak is probably the best choice for bumpers. It will give you the most bang for the buck (pin intended). No sense buying gold flyswatters to kill cockroaches.
Teak will cost about 8 to 12 times as much and will not last 8 to 12 times as long.
As several already stated, Old Ironsides was built of white oak and we know from history, it is cannonball proof.
Tony B
As was the USS Constellation.......still afloat in baltimore!

http://www.constellation.org/

Construction Materials:



Live oak:frames, stem, and kneesWhite oak: keel, keelson, sternpost, hull plankingYellow Pine: ceiling, deck beams, deck planking, heavy sparsWhite Pine: joiner bulkheadsSpruce: light sparsLocust: trunnels

[Josiah Bartlett]

Part of the reason for using the white oak is that it wears well without being particularly abrasive on fiberglass hulls, and it doesn't tend to splinter like a lot of treated softwood, which would puncture inflated rubber fenders and annoy foot traffic on the docks. I'm guessing this is used to provide the rub surface for the dock, and it is there to both protect the dock and the boats. The plastic decking materials would tend to cause wear on whatever is riding against it. I wouldn't try to second guess the marina. You don't want to rub a hole in the side of a large boat.