PM66 rehab

[Andy Livingston]

I have a line on an old green powermatic 66 tablesaw. It will need some rehab (paint, rust removal, new fence, outfeed table etc.) The motor is good and the cabinet is in good condition.
Do any of you rehab gurus have any wisdom you can pass along before I buy this old saw? What types of things would be fatal flaws? What is involved with paint, rust removal etc.?
I'm looking forward to your advice!

[Jeremy Monge]

When buying old saws the things to look for are wear in all the moving parts. Pay attention to the play in the wheels when you raise and lower the blade as well as tilt. If the mechanism responds well and you don't see a lag time when reversing rotation you know it's in good shape. Then check the lock knobs for the tilt and raise hand wheels to see if they actually work as intended. These tend to fail over time when the hand wheels are cranked while they are locked down. Also ask the seller what the saw has been used for, in a commercial shop or home use. Find out the history of the saw, previous owners etc. As far as checking the bearings I'm not sure how far you want to go before you buy the saw, but if it's a good deal, and the blade raises and tilts well get it home and check the bearings (old screwdriver stethoscope trick). If they make any noise what so ever, replace them. The bearings and the arbor are the heart of a saw. Bad bearings would be a source of vibration (as well as bad belts) and that would transfer to your cut. Those are the main items I would replace before I set up an old saw. I just went through all this (and am still going through) with an old Rockwell Unisaw that has been in storage for twenty years after being used for only five years as a hobby saw. Even just sitting for that long has required me to replace the bearings, and belts for that matter. I was lucky to pick mine up for $750 and have it be in such good condition. There is no play in the trunnions, the hand wheel locks work, and the motor is great. I'll be posting a gloat with pics as soon as I have it fully set up. There's some advice to consider before buying an old saw so you know what to expect and aren't disappointed once you get it home and spend the time setting it up to find out it needs work done to it.

[Matt Meiser]

Broken or missing parts could be fatal flaws depending on their cost. Not that you couldn't get them for that saw, but if the costs start adding up it might not be worth it.

When I redid a lathe, I cleaned everything with Castrol Super Clean, which actually is pretty good paint remover (and will burn the @#$% out of your skin, so be careful.) I didn't have any rust to deal with. When I work with moderate rust, I really like a cup-type wire wheel in a 4-1/2" angle grinder. But don't do something like that to the top. Then I use an acid etch to convert any remaining rust and clean the bare metal. For paint, depending on how accurate you want the color, there are numerous options, but I choose Do-It-Best hardware's store brand of Rust-O-Leum type paint in gray for the Delta lathe. You could also go with an automotive type paint at a much higher cost--and they really aren't home-shop friendly in terms of toxicity, etc. The Unisaw I just bought was painted with automotive enamel by a body shop. You might want to check with one on what they would want to spray it for you.

[Andy Livingston]

Thanks guys. Great advice!!! The seller wants 750. I think I'll buy it. Here are a few pics.

[Andy Livingston]

more pics. Please let me know if you see any red flags!

[Fred Woodward]

Buy the saw. Go to the OWWM.org site and you'll find lots of advice and help in the restoration but it doesn't look like there is a lot of restoration to do from the pics. Pictures can be misleading though.
Plan to replace the arbor and motor bearings and belts. Take a lot of pictures during the teardown of the saw and take your time.
The cast iron extensions with that saw are probably worth the price for the saw.
You're going to love that saw. :)

[Pete Bradley]

Maybe buy it. That decision depends on condition. The most important question is what parts are broken or missing. Used parts show up various places, but they will cost time and money so figure that in. Trashed arbors and shafts are common as are breaks from machines being tipped over so look for those.

Bearings usually fail long before they make noise or have noticeable play. It's a green Powermatic, unless it's been professionally rebuilt recently it needs arbor and motor bearings. It is worth checking for play in the motor and arbor shaft as that can indicate a severely spun bearing which usually requires shaft replacement.

Good luck!

Pete

[Kirk Poore]

When you do replace the bearings, don't skimp. Buy US or Japanese bearings. They don't cost that much more, and they'll be good for 25 or 30 years.

Kirk

[Steve Leverich]

Even more important - check the wear on the TILT mechanism - this is done with a curved rack and pinion, only the "rack" on these saws is part of the trunnion casting. If the rack gear is too worn, tilt won't work right and the ONLY repair is to replace the entire trunnion. This part costs approx. $450, and the matching pinion gear is around $70.

I know this because I recently bought the same vintage saw from a cabinet shop (I know :rolleyes:) and found out while cleaning out the pickup load of sawdust afterward that the tilt had been blocked in place with a piece of oak - further examination showed that the rack gear was REALLY worn, and even with adjusting the backlash it wasn't right.

The GOOD news, in my case, was the integrity of the previous owner - apparently he had no idea one of his employees had done this, since they only used it for 90 degree rip cuts - so he told me to order the parts, and he would pay for them.

Now all I have to do is completely disassemble the saw and install the new "guts", and re-align. Since the saw had just had its Leeson 3 horse motor rebuilt, when I get the new trunnion/pinion in place I'll have essentially a new (old) PM66 for $1000.

It's kinda hard to see these parts to check wear - you'll probably need an inspection mirror, flashlight and a small wire brush/air blower to clean enough caked sawdust off to see the condition... Steve

[Andy Livingston]

Thanks for the great advise everybody! I am going to look at it on Friday. I'll post the results.