Hock spearpoint marking knife

[Jack Camillo]

Who would think such a simple tool as a single beveled spearpoint marking knife could bring squeaks of joy from a woodworker. I've been using Xacto-style and single bevel handled skew blades for a long time, and never knew what I was missing. I took a chance on a hock wide spearpoint layout knife, despite subtle warnings that "some find the narrower size easier to handle" and similar. I don't think I've ever marked such a excellent set of layout lines throughout a handcut dovetail project or felt such ease of manipulation and perfection in laying out lines in all directions as I did with this knife in hand. It's simply a joy to use. Simplicity does breed perfection.

[Jason Beam]

I'll second that, Jack!

I have the narrow one and really really like having it. I've been a big fan of spear point knives for awhile now - mostly because i'm a lefty and finding skew point ones that i actually like is sometimes tricky.

I specifically chose the narrow one for getting into those teeny spaces when marking handcut dovetails - transfering the tails to the pins, for example. Of course, shortly after buying that knife, i found the "baby powder in a sock" trick. :P

[Brian Kent]

Do you guys use these as they come or do you make handles first?

[Jason Beam]

i debated putting a handle on mine ... so far, i haven't ... but if i did, it'd be oen that'd leave at least 2" hanging out there so I could get into some of the deeper dovetails if needed. I've found that with the thin one, not having a handle makes me more ... hmm ... careful .. delicate ... deliberate ... i don't have a word for it, but i USE it differently ... with a little more care than the ones i've had a handle on before ... I think the small size sets up some unconcious behaviors in my brain.

I'm not sure it's bad so i've held off coming up with a handle for it. *shrug* I'm weird, that ain't news :P

[Jack Camillo]

I think part of what makes it a great tool is no handle - you can hone it like a plane blade.

[Todd Bin]

I'll second that, Jack!

Of course, shortly after buying that knife, i found the "baby powder in a sock" trick. :P

OK, you have my attention. What is the baby powder in a sock trick?

Thanks,

Todd

[Steve Hamlin]

Cool! I saw this on Jim Kingshott's DT DVD, though haven't tried it

Pounce bag - saw tails but don't remove the waste, line up same as you would for scribing, then tap the bag on top of the kerfs - gives a talc impression on the pin board.

Presume you cut just up to the mark?
[More thoughts...]
Is it as effective for pins first? Thinking about for blind DTs

Cheers
Steve

[Jason Beam]

OK, you have my attention. What is the baby powder in a sock trick?

Yep, what steve said:


Pounce bag - saw tails but don't remove the waste, line up same as you would for scribing, then tap the bag on top of the kerfs - gives a talc impression on the pin board.

I picked it up from Chris Schwarz in a popular woodworking thing ... i think it was the emailed tips edition.



Presume you cut just up to the mark?


Yup - the trick for me is avoiding the temptation to brush the sawdust off! :P


Is it as effective for pins first? Thinking about for blind DTs

I haven't tried ... but it should get you a start if you mark your tails by laying the pin board flat on it - trouble is the angle, though. I don't know if the pounce bag helps in this case. I don't cut a lotta half blinds by hand so my perspective may be a little skewed. :)

[David DeCristoforo]

While I have never personally used the Hock marking knife, it is very similar in principle to the Japanese marking knives that I have used for many years. And they do make layout much easier... Check some out here:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13220

[Dan Racette]

While I have never personally used the Hock marking knife, it is very similar in principle to the Japanese marking knives that I have used for many years. And they do make layout much easier... Check some out here:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13220

David,

Is it typical for these types of knives to be used bare metal or to be made into a knife with a wood or rattan wrap handle. Obviously, I guess anyone can do whatever they want, but I'm curious what you'd do, what others would do traditionally, etc.

Dan

[David DeCristoforo]

I prefer the "bare steel" markers. Because they are flat on one side, they can be laid flat on stock or placed against edges. Wrapping the "handle" (altho it might look nice) can obstruct this.

[Jim Koepke]

Looking at the ones from Japan Woodworker makes me wonder why some of them are so costly. How fantastic can a piece of steel for marking lines be? Must be that 150 year old steel.

There is one for $7.49.

Mine is made from an old broken knife that came with a bunch of stuff bought years ago.

Have been thinking of making one from worn out plane blade. It has been used as a scrapper blade, but just recently got another blade that is at its end of life for the use it was made.

jim

[David DeCristoforo]

"How fantastic can a piece of steel for marking lines be?"

Ahh... Here we go again.... The expensive Japanese knives are made just like the chisels and plane blades... "hand forged", laminated high carbon steel cutting edge.... all that crap. Plus they are blessed, not only by the gods of steel, but by Buddha and Kaihili, and are quenched in a rare bat blood. So of course they cost more. Obviously you could just take a piece of steel and in about five minutes, grind yourself a marking knife. But who would you get to bless it? A priest? A rabbi? Come on, how straight a line are you going to be able to cut with something like that?

[Chris Padilla]

I had Dave Anderson whip me one up...even has a Snakewood handle! Cool stuff....

[Dan Racette]

"How fantastic can a piece of steel for marking lines be?"

Ahh... Here we go again.... The expensive Japanese knives are made just like the chisels and plane blades... "hand forged", laminated high carbon steel cutting edge.... all that crap. Plus they are blessed, not only by the gods of steel, but by Buddha and Kaihili, and are quenched in a rare bat blood. So of course they cost more. Obviously you could just take a piece of steel and in about five minutes, grind yourself a marking knife. But who would you get to bless it? A priest? A rabbi? Come on, how straight a line are you going to be able to cut with something like that?

I especially like the rare bat blood part!

[Mark Stutz]

WOW. A couple of days ago, Harry advised me to swing a dead chicken counterclockwise above my head, and now we're talking about rare bat's blood!:eek::D Those guys upstairs are sure to be scared off!:D

[Dan Racette]

Hmm...That's probably more western than eastern? I'm not an expert. totally kidding. David's post made me laugh again this morning, and so did your dead chicken post, Mark!

Thanks guys

[James Mittlefehldt]

I would be willing to wager David that if you worked in my climate you would wrap that handle, cold bare netal, even the blessed kind makes your hands cold real fast.

Personally I would never pay that kind of money for a marking knife. Dosen't Blue Spruce make one as well?

[Dan Racette]

What's the current conditions like in Ontario, in the part you live in, like this time of year, James?

How do you keep heat in your shop? Just curious, as I understand what you are saying. I went into "hibernation" mode for 2.5 months, and it was killing me to do that. I am making arrangements, beefing up insulation, augmenting auxiliary heating methods, so I don't have to do that again.

Dan

[James Mittlefehldt]

What's the current conditions like in Ontario, in the part you live in, like this time of year, James?

How do you keep heat in your shop? Just curious, as I understand what you are saying. I went into "hibernation" mode for 2.5 months, and it was killing me to do that. I am making arrangements, beefing up insulation, augmenting auxiliary heating methods, so I don't have to do that again.

Dan

Great now, but we had some exceptionally cold weather this past winter. I have a pair of gloves that fit like rubber gloves and they allow me to use my tools when it is cooler. I have one of those little rads that plug into 120 volt. It makes the air temperature comfortable enough most of the year, but the tools particularily when you have to grip metal are unusable, my hands get so cold that I can barely make them function.

We actually get milder winters that you would in Wisconsin on average, but this year was bad. Basically I read a lot and research from Christmas to early march. Though last year I think I was able to work out there every month.

So I guess the short answer is I do not have a decent heating system, and my garage was built in 1938. I insulated the walls and put wood over that and most years it seldom goes below freezing in there even without heat, but I recorded the coldest temerpatures I have ever seen this winter just past, and prolonged to. So much so that the water around my water stones froze, though the stones did not incur any damage. (whew)

[Dan Racette]

Back and forth, back and forth.

A constant struggle for me. Our place was built before 1920 and we don't have room to store my waterstones, and I had the same sigh of relief a couple of days.

I am in very southern wisconsin, but I live on a high bluff, so I get a constant 10mph wind, minumum all winter long. I can't yet convince my wife that a windmill is a good thing. Darn!

I am working on a "special" cabinet for "perishables". I think an old fridge would do the trick, but haven't decided on a method to keep it warm, that is uncomplicated and reliable.

Sorry for Hijacking this thread, but this winter was brutal.

[Mark Singer]

For me its diffferent, a little, I have a 2000 year old piece of steel from Jerusalem, blessed by a Rabbi with a Baruch a toh.... Vel let me show you some dovetails! Boy dovetails I'll show you!:rolleyes:

[Mark Singer]

The price you ask? Lets just say I didn't pay the first price ....I woyeked a vey nice package deal vit a removable handle....so nice:rolleyes:

[Dan Racette]

Oy, I vish I could have Hewrd you with the accent!

oy vey!

Dan