4x8 sheets of Baltic Birch at Menards

[J. Z. Guest]

Forgive me if everyone else knew this, but I thought BB could only be gotten at lumber stores in 5x5 sheets.

I was surprised to see decent lumber at Menards. 4x8 sheets of baltic birch plywood. I think it was $80 for a 3/4" sheet. It looked like a TRUE 3/4" too, not "nominal." They had a couple other thicknesses too. It looks like good quality stuff.

They are also carrying edge-glued lumber now in pine, oak, and a couple other species. The only thing that really worries me is that a lot of their lumber is shrink-wrapped. It's like they're trying to show me that it is flat now, so that when I break the seal and the humidity change hits it and warps it all to hell, they can shrug their shoulders.

[Adam Cavaliere]

It bothers me that they shrink wrap wood. I mean come on! Do we really need any more waste than there already is?

[Jamie Buxton]

Be cautious about that plywood. What is more commonly seen in the big box stores is not Baltic Birch -- y'know, made in Russia, and all the plies are birch. Instead, it is Chinese-made, and the inner plies are not birch. They may not even be hardwood. It has a bad reputation for warping and bowing when it is cut.

[Rick Gooden]

A Mennards recently opened near me and I really was quite suprised at the quality of the plywood. Oak and Maple at $45/sheet. The signs say "Made in USA", and I measured them at a true 3/4". I bought a sheet of the oak to see how it was and the quality was as good as the $63/sheet stuff I had been getting at my local (good quality) lumber yard. They can also special order cherry, walnut, hickory, oak, etc. which appear to be plain sawn instead of rotary. I sure like saving $18/sheet for the same quality. As I do will all borgs I will avoid the dimensional lumber.

[Joe Chritz]

I have used a couple sheets for drawer stock (1/2" variety). It was decent enough stuff but the 5x5 I got from a lumber supplier about 30 minutes away was better stuff. Not sure if it was wood quality, drying or sheet to sheet variation but I noticed less chipping on dovetailing with the 5x5 stuff I got.

Menards maple ply was (is currently) good stuff. Decent thickness on veneers and decent quality. Graded B2 which is plenty good for cab boxes. The stuff here was HPVA graded too. If I needed a maple show face I could get it by picking out a nice piece.

Joe

[Matt Meiser]

A Menards is opening about 12 miles from me sometime in the next few weeks and they've really ramped up their advertising since that will be their third store in the Toledo area. I noticed the Made in USA logo on the plywood in one of the ads. If they really are carrying decent plywood, I can't wait as my local plywood suppliers are a longer drive, and about the only convenient times for me that they are open are Saturday mornings. It would be really nice to be able to get basic sheet goods whenever I want.

On Jeremy's original question, my local plywood supplier sells BB in both 5x5 and 4x8 sheets. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if you are building standard size cabinets, there a lot more waste in a 5x5 sheet than 4x8.

Having both sizes available could be nice for hobbyists where material consumption is more important than speed (going on the principle that your own labor is free when you are a hobbyist.) When I built my bathroom cabinets I put both into my inventory in Cutlist Plus. At one point when I was messing with dimensions, buying some of each was going to save me something like $60. Then I changed my dimensions a few more times and ended up that all 5x5 was cheapest. Cutlist Plus would auto-figure that for me depending on my optimization settings.

[Prashun Patel]

My experience with big box oak and maple and 'birch plywood' is that it's veneered with good stuff and the inner plys are invariably lauan - ofttimes with lotsa voids.

The upshot is that it can warp considerably when ripped. I've gotten lucky about 50% of the time.

At $50/sheet, that's what you get.

My belief is that true Baltic Birch only comes in 5x5 or smaller. 4x8 is a giveaway to me that it's mislabeled.

[Ben Cadotte]

The Orange borg near me has Poplar ply instead of Birch ply. I have not had a bad sheet yet. It's 13 ply with thickish face skins. I have not found a void or delam cutting it yet. $42 a sheet. I have been only making shop jigs and cabinets with it. I think it would be fine for good cabinet carcases though.

[Prashun Patel]

Like all BORG lumber (sheets and solid stock) it's hit or miss. I personally like their selection or stock poplar and red oak. They were also selling 1x6 sticks (4' long) of straight, pre-sanded, clear white pine for like $2.30 this spring. I dug that.

[Jim King]

As a producer of all shrink wrapped lumber I can tell you that the shrink wrapping is to protect the quality and appearance of boards . The question of twisting or warping is really not a question as if in fact the wood was moist enough to twist or warp it would mold in the shrink wrap . With the cost of producing quality lumber it would seem unreasonable to ship high quality lumber and have it on display at the stores smudged or dirty when for 5 to 10 cents a board you can gaurantee a clean quality product.

The end result is a clean good quality baoard and no waste.

[J. Z. Guest]

Well, that's why I wrote this, because it looked good. 13 plies, no voids on the edges. It ought to be pretty good for $80.

[Deck Reagan]

Menards is the only large supplier near me. Lowes and Home Depot are 2 hours away. Menards is only 2 minutes away. I have been satisfied with their ply. My store sells 3 grades of the birch ply. The lowest grade, which I think they call the classic is good stuff. I have use it for shop carts and cabinets and will continue to buy. I watch it and pick it up when it goes on sale, which seems like it is about every other month.

deck

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I have seen BB in sizes other than 1/2", but its been for things like specialty thin stock for toll painting, etc. The BB in lumberyards here is 1/2" and is being carried as drawer stock for cabinet guys. For general use for 3/4" stock we've been using 4'x8' paint grade birch which has been going for about $25-$30 a sheet and has been reasonable quality.

[Mike Heidrick]

Our menards also has the 4'X8' sheets of 3/4" BB for $79. Doubt it is mislabled.

What makes true BB plywood?

The veneers in the BB are the same width and I have not seen any voids in it so far.

[Brad Townsend]

Awhile back I bought some excellent 1/2" and 3/4" maple ply at Menards. If I recall, it was around $50 a sheet for both thicknesses. I used it in some bookcases and it came out great. Home centers CAN have good plywood. Their power tool selection is kind of pathetic, but for lumber and building supplies, Menards beats HD and Lowes by a wide margin.

[Peter Quinn]

As a producer of all shrink wrapped lumber I can tell you that the shrink wrapping is to protect the quality and appearance of boards . The question of twisting or warping is really not a question as if in fact the wood was moist enough to twist or warp it would mold in the shrink wrap . With the cost of producing quality lumber it would seem unreasonable to ship high quality lumber and have it on display at the stores smudged or dirty when for 5 to 10 cents a board you can gaurantee a clean quality product.

The end result is a clean good quality baoard and no waste.

Huh? You shrink wrap to keep the wood clean? WHat are they doing to it to get it so dirty? And how clean does lumber need to be before it gets worked? It might be nice to buy finished millwork that has been shrink wrapped but please leave the condoms off of the lumber on my account. That is the first time I've seen that and I find it beyond reason. You have to be pretty OCD to want lumber in shrink wrap, I would prefer a clear view of the grain, color and quality.

Seriously, are there wood workers out there that actually prefer their lumber comes in cryovac?

[Thomas S Stockton]

There used to be two types of imported birch ply one was the more common baltic birch and there was finnish birch. Both are high quality with lots of plys. One was more waterproof than the other don't remember which and I believe the finnish birch was available in 4x8 sheets. The reason finish birch became popular was that in the early 80's dockworkers were refusing to unload russian ships because of numerous things loke the invasion of Afaghanastan and the treatment of Polish solidarity workers.
Tom

[Harley Reasons]

If you worked in a BORG you would soon notice the peculiar habits of people on items. They will stand and open a package to see whats inside and decide to buy it but instead of taking the one they just opened and inspected they take another one that hasn't been opened. I would think the same thing would happen to good quality lumber, the top piece could be the choice piece in the whole stack but if it had smudges and fingerprints on it, then it would be culled 98 out of 100 times by the customer. Only someone who appreciates good wood would select it. I think shrink wrapper prime lumber is a great idea.

[Kyle Costlow]

Huh? You shrink wrap to keep the wood clean? WHat are they doing to it to get it so dirty? And how clean does lumber need to be before it gets worked? It might be nice to buy finished millwork that has been shrink wrapped but please leave the condoms off of the lumber on my account. That is the first time I've seen that and I find it beyond reason. You have to be pretty OCD to want lumber in shrink wrap, I would prefer a clear view of the grain, color and quality.

Seriously, are there wood workers out there that actually prefer their lumber comes in cryovac?

Maybe I am wrong, but I would guess the majority of menards' customers are not "woodworkers", and may not have the means to refinish the wood, so anything with a smudge or mark from normal, or miss handling during shipping and stocking would be a reason not to buy the wood. I have bought the wrapped wood before, and I was pleased with the appearance, but I am not a woodworker, just a kid with some tools:cool: I have a hard time buying wood from lowes, they don't have the wrap and some of their wood looks like crap. Menards' wood looks much better(usually).


My experience with big box oak and maple and 'birch plywood' is that it's veneered with good stuff and the inner plys are invariably lauan - ofttimes with lotsa voids.

The upshot is that it can warp considerably when ripped. I've gotten lucky about 50% of the time.

At $50/sheet, that's what you get.
I have used lowes 3/4 birch plywood before(36$), and I ripped it quite a bit, and it didn't warp.
This project was the result of the lowes wood.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/IMG_1435.jpg
All plywood, with poplar trim, again I don't claim to be "woodworker" but I think I did alright with some cheap wood...

[Harley Reasons]

Kyle, what is that unit you built?

[Rob Wright]

The Menard's Baltic birch is not Chi-Ply like you get at the Depot. I have built a lot of drawers and jigs with both the 1/2" and 3/4" BB ply in 4x8 sheets from Menard's and can say that it is very good and high quality. I have also built a fair amount of shop cabinetry and closets with the Chi Ply and it is totally different than that. There are no voids, it is consistent in thickness, many consistent plys (13 I think :rolleyes:), doesn't smell like fish glue, doesn't de-laminate, doesn't warp as soon as you cut it or get it home, and has at least one good face without footballs.

You can call it what you want (Finnish, Danish, Russian), I simply call it very nice plywood and I will continue to buy and use it. Jeremy - I would not hesitate to use this material.

just my $0.02

- Rob

[Kyle Costlow]

Kyle, what is that unit you built?
heh, kind of odd huh.
They are cages for my reptiles.
The cages used to look like this;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/temps013.jpg
I thought they could use better accommodation, so I built these to get the ideal conditions(temp,humidity) The glass cages with screen tops are like dehydrators when you add the necessary heat lights.
A couple more pictures to illustrate.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/IMG_1670.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/IMG_1656.jpg
The cages are modular and can be stacked or stand alone(the molding keeps them locked in place when stacked.)
Sorry for hijacking...

[matt dumney]

interesting post! In my neck of the woods, central IL, the better wood supplier of the big 3 is Menards. But each location has +'s and -'s. Wood buying here is difficult.

Lowes plywood is horrible or I should say whoever if supplying it is selling them junk and they don't sell anything beyond standard construction plywood. I used some standard ply for router table base and after I cut it the chunk almost made a cylinder. The 2x4's and treated boards are the better of the 3 stores and competively priced.

HD's plywood is better than lowes at least in appearance and they sell the birch, maple and oak but at higher prices than menards. If it's better, great but I think it's the same stuff. HD here does have better select pine boards but they're priced higher than the others.

Our menard's has crappy 2x4's and treated wood but the plywood section is excellent. Maple, birch and oak. The "good" ply is 70+ dollars a sheet while the cheaper 3/4" mbo is 40. I've used both and the 40 dollar sheet is fine to work with. Heck even the contruction ply is fine to use.

[Howard Acheson]

What makes you think it is baltic birch?

Most likely its a chinese or south american multiply plywood. That doesn't make it bad, but it's not true baltic or Russian birch. Another thing, true baltic birch is made in metric dimensions including thickness.

[Steve Flavin001]

ain't a duck My hardwood dealer - professional cabinet shop supplier, not big box - points out that 4 x 8 costs about 30 to 40 cents more/sq. ft., but it has substantial interior faults as Jamie Buxton points out below.

[Keith Beck]

Sorry to hijack, but....

We don't have Menards in my neck of the woods, but I've noticed that the HD near me has now started carrying Sandeply, which is made in Ecuador. Initial impressions look pretty good: consistent thicknesses, no voids that I could see, and no wavy/overlapping plys.

Has anyone use this stuff? What did you think of it?

Keith

[Stan Urbas]

I've been buying all my lumber at a local lumber store (NOT a big box) for years, and have always bought BB in the 5x5 sheets. But about six months ago I bought the last of their supply - they now have it only in 4x8 sheets. They tell me it is the same stuff, but the mills made the switch in size due to popular demand. Ain't it great to be popular??

[john bateman]

Sorry to hijack, but....

We don't have Menards in my neck of the woods, but I've noticed that the HD near me has now started carrying Sandeply, which is made in Ecuador. Initial impressions look pretty good: consistent thicknesses, no voids that I could see, and no wavy/overlapping plys.

Has anyone use this stuff? What did you think of it?

Keith

I bought a sheet of "Sandply" about 2 years ago, and it was really nicely made, but the face veneer was nothing to look at.
I went back to the same HD a few months ago for some more, and it had all the problems you referred to: inconsistent thickness, wavy plies, voids, and the face was maybe half as thick.

Maybe your HD is carrying the better stuff again.

[Prashun Patel]

Ain't it great to be popular??

or in the case of the BORG near me that sells poplar instead of birch,

"ain't it great to be poplar"?

[Howard Acheson]

Sorry to hijack, but....

We don't have Menards in my neck of the woods, but I've noticed that the HD near me has now started carrying Sandeply, which is made in Ecuador. Initial impressions look pretty good: consistent thicknesses, no voids that I could see, and no wavy/overlapping plys.

Has anyone use this stuff? What did you think of it?

Keith

Sandeply is not a new product. It's been available in at least some Home Depots for a number of years. Seems I first ran into it in the NYC area in the late 1990's. It's been available here in North Carolina since I moved here in 2002.

I've used it for a number of shop and painted projects. It's been fine. I don't think I would attempt to stain and clear coat it though.

[J. Z. Guest]

Huh? You shrink wrap to keep the wood clean? WHat are they doing to it to get it so dirty? And how clean does lumber need to be before it gets worked? It might be nice to buy finished millwork that has been shrink wrapped

Well, this is S4S lumber and glued-up panels that are nice & flat, possibly even ready for finish without sanding. (Remember: they won't even be dirty!) So if I don't have to worry about them springing into another shape as soon as a take off the wrap, I'd be happy.

I think it is brilliant that they sell glued-up panels. (too bad most of them are pine) It has got to be one of the most dreaded parts of building, messing around with glue-ups. In these lumber factories, they glue up these panels and run them through a big drum sander and voila! Not like the acrobatics we home woodworkers have to do.

Side note: Has anyone else noticed that the new Black & Decker Workmates are using glued-up bamboo? I bought mine when the tops were melamine and I really feel shafted. Those bamboo tops/jaws are sure nice.

[Matt Meiser]

Lowes sells glued up panels too. My first real woodworking project was a coffee table built while I lived in an apartment from one of those glued up panels and S4S poplar.

That said, you shouldn't be afraid of glue-ups. I used to get stressed out about them, but once I learned to get good edges and stopped messing with biscuits they got easy. Though my last one I did try a couple Dominos which worked very nicely to make them even easier.