Hit me with your Best Shot -- 2-car Shop Layout

[Danny Thompson]

The new 2-car workshop is on order, with living quarters and 1 car garage attached (we close May 29). The shop will be fully dedicated to woodworking, which is a first for me.

I've been playing around with a layout and would really appreciate your critiques. What am I overlooking? Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated.

I've included 2 versions, one without a traditional workbench (don't have one) and one with. Is the one with the workbench too jammed? Without the workbench, most handwork would be done on the outfeed table and seated work area.

A few comments.

-- Currently, it is wired with two 110 outlets, one about midway along the the left wall and another in the ceiling for the overhead door. Luckily, the breaker panel is in the shop, on the left near the overhead door. So, I should be able to add 220 as needed (none of my current tools require it).

-- The jointer, miter bench, chair, and lumber rack are figments of my imagination. The rest will be retrieved from strorage shortly. I have a large rolling lumber rack, but I have found it somewhat cumbersome, so I thought I should replace it with a wall-mounted rack over the miter station (ref. Matthew Teague's article in FWW Tools and Shops 2007).

-- The overall dimension is 19.5' x 19.5'

Thanks.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Congrats on the soon-to-be-dedicated shop! :)

My only comment is around the location of the jointer and planer - they're fairly similair in function and space requirements, so you might consider locating and lining them up along with each other.

[Michael McCoy]

Yours is about the same size as mine and I am constantly moving equipment whenever I make anything larger than an end table. My lathe takes up more room than I like but it isn't going anywhere. One minor suggestion is to locate your drill press right beside your bandsaw and use them together for infeed/outfeed.

[glenn bradley]

Congrats and the following comments are worth every penny you'll pay for them ;-)

While you are laying out your tools, don't get hung up on the tool itself; think about how it is used. What will the material flow be? What clearances fore and aft are needed to run material through the tool? How can I combine material movement paths so that multiple machines can use the same 'open' space for infeed and outfeed?

Your second layout is a 'no' for me as it puts absolute limits on the infeed and outfeed of your TS. The first layout is like mine TS wise but I am closer to the rollup door. I can infeed anything 4' and under with the door closed. Longer board? Open door.

I used to keep the DP in the corner as most work can be done within that space. Longer board? Pivot DP on mobile base. The reason I say "used to" is that my layout changed . . . they always change . . . I also like my jointer feed path to match the TS. Not because they need to match but the path is already there. My planer is mobile and rolls over to use the same path (and borrow the DC hose of a nearby machine . . . QC connectors are nice sometimes).

Have fun. Oh, and of course DC duct path can sometimes dictate things. You wouldn't think so but a duct path that beats the heck out of your airflow might make you want to alter a machines position even though from an overhead diagram view it looks odd.

[Lee DeRaud]

Jointer and planer locations look like there's not nearly enough clearance on infeed/outfeed (jointer in second picture, planer in both), even if you're planning on leaving the overhead door open when you use these tools.

[Michael Lutz]

I would put the jointer and planer on the left side wall. Move the bandsaw, drill press and sander to the upper wall where your storage is. Incorporate your storage in the miter bench and along that wall. Orient the infeed side of the TS to the overhead door. Just my thoughts from reorganizing my shop for the third time in less than a year ( I have a smaller space than you to work in.

Mike

[Dave MacArthur]

I would move all of your dust producers over to the top and R walls, along with your DC, and move your "non dust producers" such as your bench, toolchest, hardware storage etc. over against the wall that enters the house.

This allows you several things. First, you can reduce your DC runs and complication by grouping dusters together. Second you probably reduce the dust entering the house. Third, you'd reduce the noise to the house.

If you have a bench, I would definitely put it over against or near the house wall.

As some others have said, I like to line up the jointer path with the tablesaw path. Lastly, if you haven't built it yet, IMO a miter-saw just doesn't justify the huge wall space commitment it usually gets... do you really use it enough to give it your #1 best wall in the shop? Does it neeed all that space? I use mine, but have it on rolling cart and due to the dust it produces and difficulty of catching it, I roll it out into the driveway usually. If I'm doing crown or base with it, they end up longer than the shop can comfortably hold without knocking stuff over anyways; for precision stuff I end up using my tablesaw.

Just some thoughts, good luck!

[Danny Thompson]

I hear you about the clearance. I think I will have to put the planer on a rolling cart and move it into the clear when needed.

Looking at option 1, the jointer has about 7.5' of infeed and outfeed. Is that enough? The only way I can think to get more is to move it into one of the "through traffic" lanes. Guess it will also need to be mobile.

[Danny Thompson]

Funny, I hadn't considerered the Right one the premier wall, primarily because it doesn't have power yet, but I see your point. One thing that is deceptive about the pic is that the bulk of the house is toward the top, not the left. Still, these are some great suggestions. I'll take another stab.

Keep 'em coming.

[Jim Becker]

Consider not having tools such as your jointer, planer, BS and DP in a specific "place". Rather pick a corner, such as the one in the lower right side of the drawings and have a "tool corral". Park them there when not in use. That leaves you a lot more floor space for assembly and finishing. I know that a shop the size of a two car garage seems large at first, but once you have a big project...or several...going, you'll find all kinds of ways to use space. Using this method also simplifies your dust collection and electrical situation as you can do less drops. Remember, just because you have a wall doesn't mean you have to pile things all along it!

Oh, and make provisions so your assembly surface can be at multiple heights for better comfort. Many times, folks work with things too high or on the floor, and that's not always the best way.

[Ben Cadotte]

I say the layout on the left, but I would move the saw closer to the overhead door. Jointer and planer on a mobile cart / base. This will allow longer rips with the door open, but more inportant for me, I would like a larger outfeed / assembly table. Yours looks to be about 4' square. Since it would be the main assembly area I would like it a bit bigger. Not sure what your plans call for in size of projects though. I would probably swap the bandsaw and drill press positions.

I can't seem to find the writing where you say your going to knock out the middle wall to access the 3rd garage bay. :)

[Don Bullock]

Consider not having tools such as your jointer, planer, BS and DP in a specific "place". Rather pick a corner, such as the one in the lower right side of the drawings and have a "tool corral". Park them there when not in use. That leaves you a lot more floor space for assembly and finishing... Using this method also simplifies your dust collection and electrical situation as you can do less drops...

I don't know about Danny, but Jim's idea sounds great to me. Thanks Jim. You just solved a problem I was having with the layout of the shop I'm planning. It will also save me some money as I plan out my DC.:D:D

[glenn bradley]

I can't seem to find the writing where you say your going to knock out the middle wall to access the 3rd garage bay. :)

I'm, sure he'll post that one within a year :D:D:D. I can hear it now; "But Honey, cars LIKE to be outside."

[Mike SoRelle]

Consider not having tools such as your jointer, planer, BS and DP in a specific "place". Rather pick a corner, such as the one in the lower right side of the drawings and have a "tool corral". Park them there when not in use. That leaves you a lot more floor space for assembly and finishing. I know that a shop the size of a two car garage seems large at first, but once you have a big project...or several...going, you'll find all kinds of ways to use space. Using this method also simplifies your dust collection and electrical situation as you can do less drops. Remember, just because you have a wall doesn't mean you have to pile things all along it!

Oh, and make provisions so your assembly surface can be at multiple heights for better comfort. Many times, folks work with things too high or on the floor, and that's not always the best way.


I'm with Jim on this one, I too have a former 2 car garage as a shop and about the only thing that doesn't move is my bench and some storage shelves, every other tool and my assembly table is on wheels and I roll them around as needed (including my TS) I love the flexibility of being able to arrange the shop to the project instead of the other way around. And should I need space to do something other than make sawdust, I can push everything to the walls and still have a sizable amout of room.

My garage is also attached to the house, but I have no dust migration problem (other than stuff I'm wearing on me on my way to the laundry room) I just made sure the door was well weatherstripped and I have a Jet air cleaner running whenever I'm working out there.

Jim's also right about it seems large until you actually do something, the upside is weather permitting, it's sometimes a nice change to roll a few tools into the driveway to use them.

I should also mention that the only way I got the whole garage was by agreeing to clear the snow off/start and warm the wife's car in the winter time. Totally worth the trade off, though I'm considering a remote starter this year

Mike

[David Giles]

There are a couple of key work areas.

Ply and lumber breakdown area. Need a 5x10 space to rough cut those ply sheets, preferably right by the plywood storage area. Miter saw should be located at the rough lumber station for the initial rough crosscuts. I often rip rough boards with a circular saw to line up the grain pattern with the board edge.

Now you need a 3x3 roll around cart for all the pieces. Lay out a 3ft wide pathway throughout the shop and keep that area open. Maintaining open walkways is key and basically limits where equipment can be set.

Jointer and planer go near each other and preferably near the dust collector.

Put a workbench in front of or beside the tablesaw. There's lots of walking from cutting a piece to fit up, back to trim the end, to fitup, etc. Keep the walk short.

Fixed equipment locations are preferable to mobile equipment. It's nice to flip on the planer and run a board through as opposed to pulling out the planer cabinet, undoing and plugging in the power cord, finding and connecting the dust collection. Then undoing it all to roll the planer back against the wall. Fix the jointer, planer and tablesaw. Roll the work around. If you have to roll one tool around, make the dust collector mobile.

Keep corners open for storing stuff. A drill press with oversized table takes up 3ft of wall in each direction when placed in a corner. Move it to an out of the way spot.

Have fun!

[Danny Thompson]

Sounds like good advice all around. A couple of notes.

1) This shop is already built, so I can't move doors, walls, etc.
2) I suggested Bay 3 as a dedicated finishing area . . . She is the finisher, so SWMBO agreed to using it as a temporary finishing area, as needed.
3) Actually, I am a less worried about noise levels in the house (the kids’ bedrooms are on the far end) and more worried about disturbing the retired couple next door. Last thing I need to do is move to a new neighborhood and be a nuisance right away. Even so, none of my tools will fit on the top wall without disturbing the daily flow of traffic from the house to the "finishing room/garage."

Taking your advice to heart, I'd say I can:

- Ditch the dedicated miter bench for now
- Plant the jointer in its place, in line with the TS.
- Park the planer next to it under the wood rack, but roll it in line with the TS & Jointer, up tight next to the TS/router station when in use.
- Consolidate the worst dust generators to the right with flexible hoses and do an overhead rigid duct across to the BS/DP area.
- Use the DP & BS together (both mobile).
- 3-4’ wide walkways on the left, top, and right of the center island.
- Wide open space behind the TS provides workspace for the mobile equipment or for assembly and work storage.
- Add a woodworking bench near the door to the house and an overhead air cleaner.

Hmmm . . . forgot about sheet goods. Unfortunately, the space behind the workbench is too short for horizontal storage of an 8’ sheet. I guess my only options is vertical storage up against the top wall?. I don’t really like it. Ideas?

[Lee DeRaud]

Warning, random observations follow...

One thing that caught my eye: are you sure that door to the inside opens that direction? Maybe it's a regional thing, but most house-to-garage doors out here open into the garage. (Probably doesn't matter in your current layout, but just something to keep in mind.)

Also, is there a door in that opening between the 2-bay and 1-bay sides of the garage? If there isn't, you'll probably want one, especially if you're going to use it as a finishing room.

On a completely separate note: I haven't used any of them, but there are several cheap software packages out there for DIY kitchen design etc, that provide 3D views of the layout from different angles. Might be useful for visualizing relative tool heights and other tricky bits. E.g. is the sander taller than the jointer? Will you need to move the planer to use the jointer? Things like that.

(Reading the previous paragraph and looking at the diagram, you probably want to swap the jointer and planer locations. Since the planer will be mobile anyway, its 'parking place' isn't critical.)

[Art Mulder]

One thing that caught my eye: are you sure that door to the inside opens that direction? Maybe it's a regional thing, but most house-to-garage doors out here open into the garage.

My house-to-garage door opens into the house. Of course, there are three steps DOWN into the garage, so the door pretty much HAS to face that way. But yes, Danny should be sure of this situation.



- Ditch the dedicated miter bench for now
-...
Hmmm . . . forgot about sheet goods. Unfortunately, the space behind the workbench is too short for horizontal storage of an 8’ sheet. I guess my only options is vertical storage up against the top wall?. I don’t really like it. Ideas?

You could also build the miter saw into a flip-top workstation and share it with the planer. Plenty of folks, myself included, have done that, just search old SMC posts for "flip top".

As for sheet goods... Are you a hobbiest or is this your career? I'm a hobbiest, and I think I have a pretty good system for 4x8 sheet goods storage: I leave them at the store. Seriously. I don't keep sheet goods on hand. I just buy them as I need them. So I usually only have 1-3 partial sheets hanging around, which don't take up much space.

Also... where are your clamps going? ON the wall above the workbench? Under the TS outfeed? They should be close to where you do your assembly.

Depending on your location you will want a mat in the car area, to catch mud, slush, and snow from footwear so it doesn't tromp into your shop.

...art

[David Giles]

It's looking good conceptually. How about storing the sheet goods vertically behind the overhead door tracks? There is usually 8-10" or more. Use the driveway to break them down as needed.

Think about moving the jointer next to the overhead door. It reduces interference on the inlet feed side. The door can be opened for longer boards.

How about putting the drill press where the plywood storage is located? Mine is used sporadically and isn't part of the dust control system. This frees up the other overhead door corner. And your drill bits and such could be on the nearby shelves.

What do you think about putting the bench between the table saw and the overhead door? Might give you some natural light, but it might be the darkest part of the shop as well. Could be a nice infeed support table for long boards.

[Danny Thompson]

Lee,

As it is, to use the jointer I will either have to move it or move the sander and planer. Sort of Jim's Parking Lot approach.

There is not a door between the main shop and the "finishing gar-room." I've seen someone use a vinyl shower curtain. Thoughts?

Art,

With your flip-top Miter Saw, what do you use to support your stock?

Clamps. I had originally planned to put my clamps where the sheet goods are now. Over the workbench may be in the way. I guess I'll hang them from the garage door chain. Seriously, they may have to live on the bottom shelf of the workbench.

Problem with leaving the sheet goods at the store is that my supplier is across town and closes before I get off work, so I tend to overbuy when I can. Hmmm.

David,

Do you mean between the tracks and the ceiling? Interesting.

I can't put the drill press up top without infringing on the pathway. Plus, I have a little overkill of a drill press table that includes bit storage.

To tell you the truth, your idea about putting the workbench near the overhead door is something I keep fiddling with. The problem is, where would I use my mobile tools?

[Art Mulder]

There is not a door between the main shop and the "finishing gar-room." I've seen someone use a vinyl shower curtain. Thoughts?

Art,

With your flip-top Miter Saw, what do you use to support your stock?


Danny

re: opening btwn shop and garage -- my thoughts are to put in a door. With a door closer and weather stripping. Isn't this conditioned space? Are you planning to heat/cool the garage part as well as the shop? Not to mention keeping out the exhaust/gas fumes.

re: miter stand. I don't have any supports at all yet. with long stock I usually just mock up a temporary extended support. I've seen carts that have fold-down "wings" on their portable miter station. (Remember, ww'ing is just my hobby, so at times I accept that certain operations take a bit extra time.)

best,
...art

[David Giles]

Well, you may be at the point of diminishing returns. I've rearranged the shop 3 times in three years. Once to gain 9" between a bench and the saw. You've got a lot more choices. After I built 3-4 projects and a set of cabinets, I had a lot better idea of what worked and what didn't.

BTW, nice shop!

[Lee DeRaud]

As it is, to use the jointer I will either have to move it or move the sander and planer.You really want to avoid that. Having to move tool A to use tool A is bad enough...having to move tool B and tool C to use tool A gets extremely annoying.

(Having to move tool B and tool C just so you can get to tool A to move it is even worse. DAMHIKT)

[Lee DeRaud]

Well, you may be at the point of diminishing returns. I've rearranged the shop 3 times in three years. Once to gain 9" between a bench and the saw. You've got a lot more choices. After I built 3-4 projects and a set of cabinets, I had a lot better idea of what worked and what didn't.And that's another point: whatever layout you end up with, you may want to use it for a half-dozen projects or so before you commit to a final layout and lock everything down with DC ducting, wiring, etc.

[David Giles]

(Having to move tool B and tool C just so you can get to tool A to move it is even worse.

Now there's a tool gloat!

[Lee DeRaud]

Now there's a tool gloat!More of a garage anti-gloat actually. I'm in more-or-less the same situation Danny is in...except I don't have that third bay to work with and I'm kind of anal about having the car inside every night.

The good news is, everything is small and mobile. The bad news is, it's like a jigsaw puzzle to put everything away and still leave a car-sized hole in the middle.

(And occasionally a couple of the mobile pieces decide to get locked together like a pair of teenagers with braces...not fun.:eek:)

[Danny Thompson]

This isn't conditioned space . . . yet, but I plan to insulate the door.

Point taken on the A, B, C thing. I think I've solved that, and my sheet goods problem, too, by adding a hinged sheet goods "gate" under the lumber rack (see this example http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30411).

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30818&d=1138731045

This requires to bump the jointer out a bit, which means it can be used in place without moving A, B or C; it will only be moved to allow sheet access (i.e., infrequently).

Miter Saw is now flip-topped with the planer, mobile, and leveled with the TS/Outfeed for stock support.

Clamp cart added (by the DC).

Workbench could move by the overhead door, but I think I will prefer it closer to the tool storage in the outfeed table and possibly hanging on the wall above it.

Diminishing returns . . . probably so. Problem is, I'm about a month away, so what's a guy to do?

Hmmm . . . parking . . . parallel (?)

[Lee DeRaud]

Problem is, I'm about a month away, so what's a guy to do?Don't stress over it: live with the idea that your initial layout will not be optimal. Your second layout (6-12 months later) will be much better. Your third layout (12-18 months after the second) will be about as good as it gets.

And then you can buy some more tools and start over. :eek::cool: