Mr. Wizard's Den

[Rick Dohm]

Ok, I've built my electrolysis tank of a Rubbermaid type rectangular deep tub (to accommodate long planes) with eight 1/2" round steel rods connected to a low volt/amp battery charger. My wife calls it my "Mr. Wizard experiment" for those of you who are old enough to remember who he was. It actually works very well, which is no surprise, but it seems I'm getting a lot of scaling or some other similar accumulation on the steel rods in what seems like a pretty short amount of time. I keep scrubbing it off, but in no time it reappears. Since I'm not a chemist, physicist or any other flavor of scientist, I'm just wondering if I've done something wrong, or if this is normal. Also, I'm supposed to be getting 2 amps off the battery charger, but the meter shows 1 or less at the 6 volt setting and doesn't show any higher at the 6 amp/6 volt/12 volt settings either, so I was wondering if the scale or whatever is causing it might be reducing the current. Any thoughts are appreciated.:o

[Stephen Shepherd]

That is the job of the steel rods they attract the rust and scale from the object being cleaned. In time they will go away as part of the process. I have reduced large pieces of metal to nothing in the process.

I usually don't bother cleaning them unless the cauldron is not bubbling, and yes I do remember watching Mr. Wizard, which sent me down the path of Alchemy.

Stephen

[Jim Koepke]

Also, I'm supposed to be getting 2 amps off the battery charger, but the meter shows 1 or less at the 6 volt setting and doesn't show any higher at the 6 amp/6 volt/12 volt settings either, so I was wondering if the scale or whatever is causing it might be reducing the current.

The current may be limited by the charging circuitry. This seems to be the case if the changing of the voltage does not change the current. If nothing else in the circuit changes, the current would increase as the voltage increases through the same resistance, per Ohms law I=E/R.

Then again, If the meter is the one supplied in the charger, maybe it is not working.

jim

[Jeff Hallam]

Try moving the sacrificial pieces closer to your hand plane (not too close mind you!). This will increase the current and you might see the process speed up.

[Rick Dohm]

Jeff,
That's interesting. I guess I would have thought that with the electrolyte in the water (I was careful to use washing soda in the recommended proportion, not baking soda), distance wouldn't matter. Guess that helps explain why science was not my strong suit. It is of interest, however, that the ammeter on the charger (new out of the box) used to show higher values which prompted my question about the buildup on the rods in the first place. At one point I did have one of my clips accidentally come in contact with one of the rods which threw some sparks. Since everything still worked, however, I didn't think anything shorted out. I suppose it doesn't matter too much since it must be working if I'm getting the buildup.

Rick

[Stephen Shepherd]

The anode (rod) and cathode (tool) work best line of sight, in other words as close as you can get along the axis of the tool.

And one reason the meter doesn't work is that in effect you are shorting out the charger or volta pile in the water bath with the washing soda. It also helps to use distilled water. It is also a good idea to decant off the solution from time to time and remove the dregs in the bottom of the tank.

Remember to treat forged steel parts for hydrogen embrittlement, heating to 220 degrees or place in direct sunlight for the amount of time it spent in the tank. Cast and iron pieces do not have this problem.

Stephen

[Rick Dohm]

Thanks, Stephen. That makes sense. Now for the tough question (and one that makes me think I shouldn't be doing this!): I know what cast iron looks like, but how can you tell by looking at a steel tool whether it was cast or forged? :confused:

Rick

[Stephen Shepherd]

Rick,

Any steel, cast or forged needs to be treated. But cast steel is a type of steel that may or may not be forged. It is just the iron that isn't bothered by this perculiar phenomenon.

Cast iron or wrought iron is usually more gray and duller in color than steel, but that is not always the case. Steel parts are usually the blades. cutting edges and the only problems I have encountered are hand saws. They need to be treated. I don't think you need to worry about laminated or laid steel plane blades or chisels but I always treat them if I give them the volta pile bath, just in case.

It is no problem for me to place the tool in direct sunlight for the same amount of time as it spends in the bath, how difficult is that? Or just bringing it up to 220 degrees in the toaster oven? The time it takes to toast a bagel.

Don't fret about what you are doing, it is important to remove the rust or the degradition continues and the electrolysis bath can really do no harm, it really stops working when the rust is gone, museums use the same technique


Stephen

[Rick Dohm]

Stephen,

You're right, it's not a problem unless the item has been in the bath for a week or so. Don't know where you live, but the sun don't shine that long in my home town. :D My current projects are all planes. The most recent is a badly rusted #70 I "won" on our favorite auction site. The handle is wood (not in the bath), I guess the main part to be cast iron, the blade is surely steel, and I'm not sure about the thumb screw (but I expect it's forged). Generally, do you also heat the screws, nuts, washers, etc., that come off these tools?

Rick