help getting me started? what to buy..

[Leo Zick]

well, ive determined im out of tools, or benches, etc.

i have a router, miter saw, jigsaw, etc and misc hand tools.

problem is, everything i want to make cant be done.

right now, i want to make crown molding for my wine cellar, and a frame for a bathroom mirror.

it seems that i can use my router instead of buying a table saw right now, but theres no way i can cut any of these profiles by hand (crown molding face, or frame rabbet for mirror inset). is there?

as such, im assuming i need a router table. $500 seems like a lot to spend. i can build a table, which i would like to do, but it seems like im still looking at over 300 for a router tabletop and fence.

what does everyone recommend? from what ive seen, the kreg, rousseau, and rockler ones are nice.

can i just make one from some melamine counter top? im nervous it wont be accurate,and not sure how to make or affix a fence.

assuming i make or buy one, im guessing the preferred router bench is Norms? i like it, but ultimately want a combo router/saw table, so im not sure if ill make something that nice right now. (or that i can!)

i know that you get what you pay for, but i cant swing over $500 to do all this, when i am still tryin to convince my wife to let me build a small workshop in our basement, which i also have to finish!

any help would be great.. :)

[Ben Cadotte]

You can make a router table from a simple piece of wood, with another clamped to it for a fence! Its just when you want some added convience that you start to add things, and increase the price.

For my router I added an extension table to my table saw. Put in a $30 router plate, and $15 worth of t-track from Rockler. The top and fence is good 3/4" birch ply. Probably $100 for the whole thing (lower shelves made from scrap laying around). My router has a wrench hole for above the table adjusting so no need for an expensive lift either.

You can easilly make a good table for $100. I bought Rockler's t-track kit when it was on sale for $15 (actually ordered 5 of them). I made 2 fences out of the 3/4" ply 1 shorter one, and one tall one.

There are several smaller table top table saws that are actually very decent machines for around $200 or less. You could pick one of those up as well without going over your budget. And this would help with projects. Don't need a monster cabinet saw. But there are advantages of a table saw over just using a circular saw.

[scott spencer]

A router table can be pretty simple....google some ideas for homemade router tables (http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=homemade+router+table&btnG=Search+Images) and see if anything appeals to you. There are some good $100 routers suitable for table use if you're current one isn't up to snuff.

A circular saw and a straight edge will give the ability tip make long straight cuts, and isn't too expensive if you're careful. I see decent used tables saws in the $100-$150 pretty frequently...keep your eyes peeled.

...where there's a will, there's a way! :)

[David DeCristoforo]

Leo, you are watching too much TV! ;) You don't need any of that stuff. A router table can be as simple as a piece of plywood (or your piece of p-lam counter top) on a couple of saw horses. The fence? A straight piece of wood held in place with a couple of clamps. For most operations, fence alignment is not an issue since the fence is a "tangent" to the "cutting circle" of the bit. FWIW, crown moldings are not the easiest thing to make on a router table (or even a shaper for that matter). So my advice considering your budget and needs is to invest in as good a table saw as you can find for five bills. Your money will go much further if you look for a good used "cabinet" saw (Craigslist, local classifieds, etc.). You can "upgrade" the RT over time... maybe build a really nice one if you want (you'll need the TS for that). I have always been of the opinion that buying a lot of cheap tools is a bad idea. Better to acquire higher quality tools over time.

[Tim Morton]

You could do a pretty simple router table and fence out of a single sheet of MDF. You can hang a smallish router from it and be done. Sometimes the problem with forums is that by the time you get done reading you need to by a combination saw/planer/jointer just to make a picture frame...it ain't so!!!:o

[Tim Morton]

a trifecta!!!:D

[Ben Rafael]

I'd go for a tablesaw.
You can easily use one of the sides to put on a router table.
Decent used tablesaws are always popping up on craigslist.
HD is currently selling the RIDGID 3650 for about $400, which is a great saw for the money.
I've also seen nice router tables on craigslist for about what it would cost to make one.

[Leo Zick]

everyone lists some great ideas, and good points.
i think my best bet right now is to buy a sheet of mdf, and a router plate. cut the mdf to fit, and make a fence from some wood.

i know its less than ideal, but while researching the best fence/plate, table layout, i realized that without first hand experience of what will work best for me, its better to wait.

i know i will want an easily adjustable fence with dust hookup. reading and seeing how easily adjustable router plates work is enticing, but dont know what will work best for me.

for now, im thinking ill build a workbench with a miter saw inlay, and use one end of the bench as a router station, with removable fence. i figure the table to be ~8' long and 2' deep.

i can also set up a pocket hole jig station at the other end.

since accessibility is important, im thinking of 3 sections, all on wheels, all easily joined for level and stability purposes, and the use of separating the 2 ends for work stations.

hope its as practical as what i envision. here are two ideas that i want to use:
http://www.rd.com/familyhandyman/articles/200212/fixit/main.html

http://blueriverconsulting.com/tcs-knox/MyWorkbench.htm

[Greg Peterson]

I've seen Gary Rogowski's router table up close and personal. 'bout twenty bucks worth or 3/4" MDF. Pretty crude and lacks all the fancy whiz bang features you'd find on a $500 router table.

You can more than spend yourself into the poor house trying to outfit your shop. Sounds like you're in the same boat as I am and many others 'round here. Have to strike a fine balance between quality and just having a decent tool.

In this instance, you can strike a reasonable compromise by just building a simple router table. You'll pay dearly for the creature comforts of a router lift and so on. Make sure the table top is as near flat as you can get it.

[Jeff Booth]

I could not agree more with everyone else on this thread, all those jigs and manufactured whatever are not necessary. What is necessary are some high quality sharp things (chisels, planes, sawblades and router bits etc.) and a few stones to keep them that way. A nice combination square or double square for setup, a good straight edge, a quiet vacuum cleaner, those are things that I really need.

My first router table was a piece of 3/4 plywood with a hole in it, I had 2 c clamps and a strip of oak as the fence, that offered all the functionality of my current router table, just not quite as refined. It was good for 2 years. My router table was my edge jointer for a few years too, it works pretty well for that with a quality 1" straight bit as the cutter. You can make a pretty nice fence out of mdf or furniture grade plywood.


My contractor's saw was $50 out of the local want ad paper, it was more like a kit as the previous owner had completely disassembled it and lost a piece or two, but after some time tuning it, it does all I need it to, sure a cabinet saw with better dust collection would be nice, but I would rather buy wood or another tool with that money. I still use a random extrusion and 2 c clamps for the fence on my bandsaw, I would rather use the saved money to get something I can not make for $5 .......


I also agree it is better to get 1 good thing instead of 2 cheap things, I bought a Clifton 410 5 years ago, cost $200 and seemed like a lot for this little rabbet plane, I wondered if I was going to ever get any use out of it. It is my most trusted friend these days.....

I started woodworking using machines mostly as I lacked the threshold skills of sharpening and using hand tools, as time has gone on I have improved the sharpening greatly and thus use chisels and planes much more frequently, this is very satisfying a has the added advantage of being quiet ....... I still turn logs into lumber using machines, but I fine tune my joints now by hand and it is very satisfying.

[Dave MacArthur]

http://www.patwarner.com
Go there and read his thoughts on router tables. Simple sheet of MDF, bolt the router to the bottom--don't even waste the $ on an insert. He knows routers, and it's a great site.

[Leo Zick]

http://www.patwarner.com
Go there and read his thoughts on router tables. Simple sheet of MDF, bolt the router to the bottom--don't even waste the $ on an insert. He knows routers, and it's a great site.


nice link, thanks..doesnt even discuss football! :p

[Ben Cadotte]

I think your headding down the right path with starting simple. Get the basics and when you know what you want to do, you will have a better idea of what you want tool / equipment wise.

Here is a good deal on a router plate. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94331
It's the same plate I paid $35 for from MLCS couple years ago (just different brand name on it).

Like I said earlier you don't have to have a plate or lift. But if your going to use the same router for table and hand held use. Its well worth the $30 or so just for the ease of mounting and dismounting.

[Leo Zick]

thought I'd share an update..

My wife bought me a Rockler Tabletop for my birthday. that started the desire to build a cabinet for it.

I've been trying to model it around Norms, more or less. I've only seen pictures of the front, so I've been making it up as I go along.

most of the construction is 3/4" birch ply. Some 1/2" maple ply is used for shelving.

I made the cabinet on 2.5" locking casters (which I'm not impressed with, it still moves a hair). The width is 1" shorter on each side of the table top so I can use clamps in place of the fence for larger pieces, or to hold items etc. The depth is equal to the table top, so flush front and back. I'll post questions below, I have one on this.

It has a large bottom drawer (I've never made drawers before, its a painstaking process, especially trying to flush mount!), 2 small drawer to the left of the router, and most likely 1 larger cabinet to the right. Not sure if I'll add a drawer there yet.

I mounted the top to the cabinet using drilled insets on the top, and bolting in from underneath, through cross members. This way I can remove the top, should I ever need to upgrade, etc.

I've been using it as it is - a bare cabinet, so I can use the router to dado, edge, etc. and make the drawers.

-dust collection doesnt work well when dadoing. The dust shoots out of the groove. This causes some dust to fall into the fence slot. I may make a small catch underneath so my drawer doesnt get dusty. Maybe I'll add some sort of side mounted dust collection as well.

-with a vac jammed behind the fence, and the fence open, hardly no dust gets below the router during jointing, etc. I was going to make fancy sloped sides inside the router portion for dust flow, but I see no need. Just a dust port with a gate or something in behind the cabinet should be more than enough.

Adjustment is easy enough. reaching under for height adjustment is a pain, the craftsman router doesnt adjust too easily, but its ok, and cuts well, no jams at all, even through nasty ply. Next is some sort of switch on the outside that controls both the router and a vac. I can certainly see the need for a router raizer or something of the sort.

re: the rockler table - the miter slot isnt very useful for anything over a few inches wide. most boards I was cutting covered it so it cant be used for a featherboard. I'll have to play around and see if there is a way to make use of it, besides storing my pencil :D

oh, btw, there is no way to do anything without a table saw. I really gotta save up for one! i used my friends dewalt contractor saw for getting straight cuts. its ok, but it has its flaws. too small, only does up to 26".

I think ill start a new thread asking about drawer construction..

[Paul Johnstone]

as such, im assuming i need a router table. $500 seems like a lot to spend. i can build a table, which i would like to do, but it seems like im still looking at over 300 for a router tabletop and fence.



For the router table, buy a router and a table insert (or make your own out of acyrlic or whatever).. Then a sheet of plywood (or less) to make your own table and fence. There's literally TONS of plans to make your own router table. Go to the library and look through their back issues of woodworking magazines. Just about every magazine has an "ultimate router table" plans about once a year.

[Leo Zick]

For the router table, buy a router and a table insert (or make your own out of acyrlic or whatever).. Then a sheet of plywood (or less) to make your own table and fence. There's literally TONS of plans to make your own router table. Go to the library and look through their back issues of woodworking magazines. Just about every magazine has an "ultimate router table" plans about once a year.



????

My post above states that my wife bought me a rockler top for my bday..

[J. Z. Guest]

Leo, my advice is to buy the Bill Hylton router book. It contains a plan for a simple, $10 router table that can be clamped in a bench vise. (or B&D Workmate, if you don't have a bench or vise) This book will let you use your router to the fullest.

In the meantime, start saving for a table saw, and keep a sharp eye on Craigslist for good used table saws. For a smaller shop, I've been happy with my Ridgid TS2400 table saw. (~$400 new at Home Depot) Excellent fence, good dust collection with a shop vac, and portable.

With a router table, workbench or Workmate, table saw, and S4S lumber, you can do a lot of nice projects.

A big expensive shop will make you more efficient and will be less frustrating, but you CAN do woodworking on the cheap.

Lots of folks in the Hand Tools forum will be proud to give you tips on how to assemble a small shop with not a lot of money, if you're willing to put in a bit of elbow grease & practice. ;)

[Greg Hines, MD]

My first router table insert plate was one that I made myself, out of 3/4" plywood. I routed out a space on the underside to house the router base, so that when I used the factory screws to hold it in place, I didn't even have to go out and get the longer ones. I would rout small pieces with that held across a milk crate for a long time, until I put some legs under it.

When I decided last year to finally finish a second generation router top, I made it all myself out of melamine and some 1/2" plywood. The most expensive part of it was the router plate and knobs from Woodcraft for the fence and miter gauge slot. You don't need either of them to make a good router table. As someone said, they just make it easier to do things. A straight 2x4 will serve as a decent fence for a long time before you finally decide to replace it. And if you ever watched the Router Workshop on PBS, they used a very minimal setup for a lot of good projects.

Doc

[Jim Knight]

My last router table, which I gave away when I moved, cost me less than $10 and took less than an afternoon to make. It had a horizontal and a vertical fence, was study and had a good insert. The only reason I gave it up was that I thought I would have little time and less space for the kind of shop time I had grown accustomed to.

No doubt some fences are good and useful and worth the money to some but I have had very good results with scrap either bolted or clamped in place and careful measuring.

Good luck on the shop and the many projects.

[Leo Zick]

Leo, my advice is to buy the Bill Hylton router book. It contains a plan for a simple, $10 router table that can be clamped in a bench vise. (or B&D Workmate, if you don't have a bench or vise) This book will let you use your router to the fullest.

In the meantime, start saving for a table saw, and keep a sharp eye on Craigslist for good used table saws. For a smaller shop, I've been happy with my Ridgid TS2400 table saw. (~$400 new at Home Depot) Excellent fence, good dust collection with a shop vac, and portable.

With a router table, workbench or Workmate, table saw, and S4S lumber, you can do a lot of nice projects.

A big expensive shop will make you more efficient and will be less frustrating, but you CAN do woodworking on the cheap.

Lots of folks in the Hand Tools forum will be proud to give you tips on how to assemble a small shop with not a lot of money, if you're willing to put in a bit of elbow grease & practice. ;)



Thanks for the advice, but i'm already in the process of building a cabinet, and received a table top as a gift from my wife. Did my post above not go through? I am happy with the table since im designing it. When i have the money and use for a good table saw with router plate extension, that will be the ultimate. for now, this seems like it will work.

my concern with a lesser quality table saw is that i will outgrow it too quickly. ive used my grandfathers 50year old workhorse most of my life. while the fence isnt ideal, its got a huge side table, a nice custom outfeed table, and a motor that never slows down. maybe ill wait to inherit it. :)

[Ben Cadotte]

my concern with a lesser quality table saw is that i will outgrow it too quickly. ive used my grandfathers 50year old workhorse most of my life. while the fence isnt ideal, its got a huge side table, a nice custom outfeed table, and a motor that never slows down. maybe ill wait to inherit it. :)


So how many hints did you leave laying around to get the top?? :D

If you can get a used contractors saw for $100 or so. Will most likely need lots of cleaning. It would be worth it though. Even if you out grow it in a year or two. The value has dropped to the point you would get everything back, maybe even more if you make it look better. Even the older craftsman with the screw locking fence can be used effectively. May not be a Unisaw with 5hp and a 50" fence. But they can still do a good job.

[Greg Hines, MD]

Thanks for the advice, but i'm already in the process of building a cabinet, and received a table top as a gift from my wife. Did my post above not go through? I am happy with the table since im designing it. When i have the money and use for a good table saw with router plate extension, that will be the ultimate. for now, this seems like it will work.

my concern with a lesser quality table saw is that i will outgrow it too quickly. ive used my grandfathers 50year old workhorse most of my life. while the fence isnt ideal, its got a huge side table, a nice custom outfeed table, and a motor that never slows down. maybe ill wait to inherit it. :)



I would not necessarily consider a table saw extension "the ultimate". They can function together good, but it also means that you cannot leave one set up while you use the other. If you are severely challenged on space, it is a good compromise, though I prefer to have the router set up all by itself and the saw for other operations without having to break everything down.

Doc

[Todd Exter]

I suppose you could use a skil saw to build this bench router table, but a table saw would help. This was made from scrap, recycled bolts, and a 4" part from an old bath room fan. final cost? some $time.

hope this helps, Todd

[Peter Quinn]

Wait a minute. Back up. The op says he wants to make crown molding? On a router table? I guess it could work with one of those BIG SCARRY molding bits that take 27 passes to produce a little tiny crown. Maybe the wife will spring for a 7 head molder?

Seriously though, I watched a Pat Warner vid on FWW site tonight from an email news letter which showed a fence with index pins to hold stackable shims which can be removed to adjust the depth of cut on large bits. Perfect solution for router table moldings if you have access to the FWW site.

Of course your still going to need to rip that stock to exact width, and that is going to get tough on a router table, even the ultimate router table.

[Leo Zick]

bad to try to do moldings on a router table?
i wasnt talking full crown, just edging a 1x2 or something to use as a flat molding, not beveled, if it matters.

[Phillip Bogle]

I have the EZ Eureka Zone system that is part of the Sawmill Creek forum. I love it. I also have a cabinet table saw with a Biesmeyer (SP?) type fence that I love as well. The EZ system does everything that the cabinet table saw but it is portable as well. The EZ is just a little more fussing to set up but it is safer. Plus you can start small and Dino will help you add as you can. There are router attachments and other add ons available.

I labored long over the purchase of the router table. I believe that all the answers you have heard are true. Even the ones that seem to contradict each other. Everyone has a different way of working. Everyone has a different standard of quality that they are aiming for. Everyone has a different budget. I have tools galore, but I am 60 years old and retired, with several years of tool collecting behind me. I have physical limitations more than time or financial. Your needs or limits are going to be different. That said I went with a nice router table insert and fence, I bought a rt1000XL for right at $300. I am happy with the unit and I bought a new Triton router which I love. You do not have to have these things but do not feel bad if you want or invest in them. I may have tools some of these guys do not have but that suits me and the way I like to work. I hate fussing with a bunch of tools. I like to focus on the project and get the job finished. Anything that helps me complete the task at hand is great in my book.

Just my opinion

[Peter Quinn]

bad to try to do moldings on a router table?
i wasnt talking full crown, just edging a 1x2 or something to use as a flat molding, not beveled, if it matters.

No, I do moldings on my router table, bigger ones or longer runs on the shaper. But those bits for crown moldings available from some manufacturers for 3 1/4" crown scare the pants off of me. Doubt I will ever spin a bit that big in a router.

But I did see a Pat Warner set up that would make it not only possible but possibly even safe, and relatively quick. Check the Fine Woodworking web site, I think its an active link on the present newsletter home page. You might have to turbo charge your fence a bit. You'll need pretty straight stock too.

Or one of these: www.griggio.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=20&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

[Matthew Hills]

ive used my grandfathers 50year old workhorse most of my life. while the fence isnt ideal, its got a huge side table, a nice custom outfeed table, and a motor that never slows down.

Might try a new switch.

I'll be curious how your crown moulding turns out. The design (or wood) would have to be pretty special to get me to pursue making it myself. Normally I'd want long sections to minimize the # of scarf joints. That's a pain on most home-shop tools. If you're going to paint the moulding, I'd go with something available commercially in MDF. MDF does rout great, but oh... the dust. :-)

I'd be interested in hearing what you have in mind for the moulding.


Now building a router cabinet.... that is a the classic home-woodshop project.

Matt