Need help selecting palmgrip sander w/ vacuum

[Robert Ray]

Hi, my name is Robert Ray, and I am looking for recommendations on a good quality (2 hours a week duty cycle) palmgrip or 1/3 sheet sander that can work with a portable shop vacuum.

What I need to do is sand 12" x 48" veneer to 400 grit. What I had been using is a cheap B&D 1/3 sheet sander with a 1 1/4" x 12" rigid pipe on my shopvac hose, used as a handle to float the sander across the veneer.

I am only going to be sanding the Finnish Birch Plywood veneer, in 1/64" and 1/32" thickness on both sides with the new sander/vaccum. I laser cut this material, and when sanded to 400 grit, it cuts so mush cleaner, and at faster speeds.

I was told there are some expensive setups where the sander's switch even turns on the vacuum, but general woodworking is not a strong point for me, so I am not familiar with much more than the names Ryobi, B&D, and Craftsman.

I would like to target <$300, but will pay more to get something up to the task, and would also like info on sandpaper up to the task. I ususally only get about 100 square feet sanded per 1/3 sheet using the Norton 3X paper.

Thanks for any info and recommendations,
-Robert

[Bob Childress]

Robert,

For your application, you may want to look at the Festool RTS400 palm sander. At $195, it fits your budget, and will provide long service and good dust control. Variable speed, too. And the Festool sandpaper is as good as any made. Long lasting and high quality.

I'm sure you will get other suggestions as well. :)

[Larry James]

Robert,

Assuming you have not bought vacuum yet, look at Fein Turbo I Wet-Dry Vacuum 9-11-55 with Auto-Trigger Starting. You plug sander in vacuum and it will automatically start the vacuum when tool starts. Try http://www.coastaltool.com or Amazon for more info. I have this vacuum and I use it with my ROS - works great.

Larry

[Joe Chritz]

There are lots of good sanders but for dust control it is very hard to beat the Festool line.

Remember that quality is rarely cheap.

Joe

[Alan Schaffter]

Dynabrade pneumatic central vac ready.

[Johnny Kleso]

I'd say get a PC 505 1/2 sheet sander and make your self a gang box with extension cord and a double recepital and a switch from the lowes elec. house wiring section...

When you flip the switch the double plug goes hot and sander and vaccume turn on..

The 505 is a true workhorse........

[Samuel Brooks]

I am using the Ridgid 5" Palm Sander (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100053683) $70.00 along with a Ridgid Shop Vac starting at $39 and up from there. I have the HEPA filter on mine and cleans out easy enough. I picked up a conversion hose to go from the 2-1/4" down to the 1-1/4, I am not positive on the 1-1/4 size. But I find that having the smaller hose makes it easier to work with the sander then trying to work with the heavier 2-1/4" hose. Also this allows me to put the shop vac further away from me. Take a look at the Ridgid sander dust collection when you unscrew the bag you will see a way to connect a larger hose like the 2-1/4 but the actual chute is the smaller size.

The Ridgid 5" has received alot of good reviews in the woodworking magazines and I have used it for over an hour continuously and not lost feeling to my hand like some other models do :-(.

Options to consider.
Budget
Noise
Portablility
Availability of Sanding Disk with the correct holes.

I am also a weekend warrior but even small projects can take some time in the sanding department.

I learned a trick form to use a trash bag when cleaning the filter of the shop vac. Just put it inside a garbage bag and knock it around. No dust :).

Good Luck with your decision process. Remember to take your needs into account instead of just getting the "best". Unless Budget is not an issue then skip the middle and go for the best with automatic shutoff ect.

[J. Z. Guest]

I went through the same thing recently. Finally getting something a little quicker and more aggressive than my trusty Makita 1/4 sheet palm sander.

I read up for a while, and finally decided on this Bosch 3107DVS. (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-3107DVS-5-Inch-Polisher-Canister/dp/B0000223H5/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1209819847&sr=1-13)

The mating shop vac hose connection is here. (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Adapter-Various-Sanders-RS006/dp/B0009H5L5I/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1209819847&sr=1-14)

Once you have a quality connection for the shop vac, I don't see what extra Festool would offer for double the money. It doesn't vibrate much, and it doesn't allow a spec of dust to get away.

Be sure to read Bob Feeser's review on it and keep an eye on that allen bolt. I bought mine refurbished, which Amazon has apparently stopped carrying, and lowered the price on the new ones.

One thing to be careful of: random orbit sanders work about 5X faster than orbital sanders. When sanding your plywood, use the finest grit you can find. You'll find you only need to sand for a few seconds to get the good finish.

I've also found that although it works faster than my 1/4 sheet Makita orbital, the finish it leaves is smoother. Hard to explain, but there it is.

[Robert Ray]

Thanks for the help. I had not known about Random Orbital Sanding before your replies. I had a mindset of 1/3 sheet or 1/2 sheet sander because they get into corners, but it is not an issue because I can go over the edge of the material.

So I read up on all the models you have recommended. The Bosch seems like a great bang for the buck model, after dealing with an Allen bolt that goes loose. The Festool line looks bulletproof, but it's not a "run on down and get a pack of sandpaper at home depot" kind of tool, after reading they have a 9th hole in the center of their 5" sanding discs, so I want to keep it in that range.

I decided I want to try a 5" 8 hole random orbital sander over the 1/3 and 1/2 sheet models, mainly because I have never used one before, and because I read here they remove stock 5X over other types, and the 5" size means plenty of local sanding discs available.

I decided to purchase a Bosch, and ran on down to Sears and looked at the 1295DVS, but they were out of the vacuum hose adapters, so I came home and read some more, and found a review that said "reminds me of a midsize car that’s well built but doesn’t quite have all the power you want." I am going to Mail Order the 3107DVS from Amazon, as it's only $15 more than the 1295DVS, people seem to really like it (other than the bolts working loose), and it don't break the bank.

On to my shop vacuum research. By the way I do have a small 660 CFM 4" dust extraction setup in my garage, connected to my Lasers, but I sand in the backyard on the picnic table because of lack of table space in the garage.

I read up on the Festool Mini, and the Fein 9-11 55, and those are very nice vacuum systems. I love the Festool! It's nice and compact, looks like it will not tip over on me, and has all the right features. One thing though, this is a tool you just don't find on sale. I love it's storage box feature too.

As for the Fein, (Gawd it's UGLY) it's price don't put me too much over the range I want to pay. Reviews show it's quiet, has auto start, and people feel it's reliable and well built. Complaints are the price of the HEPA, so everyone modifies it to fit cheaper HEPA's.

I stumbled upon the Porter Cable 7812, a 10 gallon vacuum with auto start, and read up on it. Some like it better than the Fein, and some don't. It's made in Italy, and someone else suggested it was made in the same factory where Festool has their vacuums produced. I don't know, but it has the features I need, is at the same price as the Fein I was looking at, and, and has a little larger capacity.

I also found the Shop-Vac 925-63-10 which features auto start, again in the $240 range, but this one gives most people fits. Several don't shut off when they should, crappy hose, etc. A stay away from tool from the reviews I read.

I will think a bit more on the vacuum, but am leaning towards the Porter Cable, because Amazon has them listed regular $522, on sale for $229 new, and not reconditioned or anything. Most others have them on sale for the $300 range. My other preference is the Fein, which I seen on sale at $244, but that is based off all the great reviews about it.

From all the reviews I read, there is certainly lots of brand loyalty out there. That's something I try to be impartial to, so there is a bit of reading between the lines to do.

-Robert

[Bert Johansen]

Robert, like Samuel I favor the Rigid 5" ROS. As he described it is very low on both vibration and noise. Another nice feature is the motor brake. It stops quickly when you shut it off. I don't use it with a shop vac, and dust is negligible compared to my old Porter-Cable.

That said, I recommend the Abranet sanding disks. Woodcraft sells them ten per box for $16. They last a long time and are quite aggressive. Best sandpaper I've ever used.

[Doug Shepard]

I cant recommend the Festool stuff enough, but it's more than a lot of folks want to pay. If you dont end up with a vac that has an outlet triggered by the sander, Sears has an pretty handy outlet adapter that does the same thing. I think it's somewhere around $20.

[Rob Will]

All you have to do is go the local Woodcraft store and ask to plug in a Festool sander so you can hear it run.

Rob

[Joe Jensen]

Robert. The ultimate sander IMHO for your application is the Festool ORBITAL RS2-E. It is a 1/2 sheet sander that has a small orbit radius and it's ideal for flat surfaces. It takes a lot of practice not to sand through the veneer on corners with an RO sander in my experience. The RS2-E is expensive, $295 I think. But, it's great. I think there are a couple other brands of 1/2 sheet sanders. If not the Festool, I suggest a different 1/2 sheet...joe

[Joe Jensen]

I did some web surfing, and if you don't have a good vac, the Bosch 1293D 1/2 sheet orbital looks pretty good, and you can hook it up to a vac. The Fein is a good vac with autostart that won't break the bank...joe

[Cary Swoveland]

Robert,

If you decide on a ROS, I would strongly recommend getting one with a 6" diameter, in view of your application. 6" ROSs have 44% [ 100%*(((3*3-2.5*2.5) - 1)/(2.5*2.5) ] more surface area than 5" diameter ROSs. That would save you a lot of time and would also be better for keeping the veneer flat.

If you could manage it, the Festool ETS 150/3 would be a great choice. I have several Festools and the ETS 150/5 (slightly different than the /3) is the one I use most. I formerly used Dynabrade pneumatic sanders, but much prefer the Festool.

My primary advice, however, is that if you get a ROS, get a 6".

Cary


Cary

[Robert Ray]

Update on my purchases. I ended up getting the Porter Cable 343VSK 5" ROS for $80, and their 7812 10 gallon dust collector with tool-start for $229 from Amazon. I also picked up several 50 pack's of Mirka Gold 8 hole discs in 400, 320, and assorted sizes to have on hand.

After a quick assembly, and as usual, no reading of instructions, I brought a stack of veneers, and started sanding. My friend scolded me for purchasing an ROS, saying it would leave swirl marks on the veneer, so I was sweating it, but after 30 seconds with the 320 grit, it was clear that I made a good choice.

The PC vacuum has beefy construction, a beefy 20' cord, and a flimsy hose, which at first I did not understand until I connected it to the sander. The Sander has a long cord, at least 10 feet too. I plugged it into the vacuum, and turned on the power, and it pulsed on then off real quick. When I turned on the sander, the vacuum came on, and when I turned off the sander, the vacuum runs 15 seconds, then shuts off. That gave me a few seconds to pull the hose off the sander, and go over it with the vacuum before it shut off.

I used to spend 10 minutes to sand 8 square feet (both sides of 12" x 48" veneer sheet), and the PC ROS knocked it out in 5 minutes with the same finish quality I am used to. Not exactly 5 times faster, but 2 times faster is still a great improvement.

The sander is noisy, but the vacuum is fairly quite. Together, both are much quieter than my old shop vac and B&D 1/3 sheet sander were.

That flimsy vacuum hose is perfect for my application, as the sander is easy to float over the material, and the hose does not bind at all. It still takes a bit of elbow grease to hold that ROS down, because she want's to giddyup!

I inspected the veneer for swirl marks and could not see any, so I applied some oak stain to better see, and I could barely detect any swirl at all. For my application, it is just fine, and I have not even tried the 400 grit yet. That should be a bit better.

The vacuum picked up all the dust. I did not have any dust, anywhere except a light film around the base of the sander, which I used the vacuum to remove after I was done sanding.

My only objection is that the ROS has a rather large top, a bit larger than my hand for the most comfortable grip, but I knocked 32 square feet in 20 minutes, and my hand was not sore, or buzzing like it was after using the B&D would be.

I want to thank everyone for their help and suggestions, as it led me down the right path to further research my choices. I only overshot my target by a few dollars too.

-Robert Ray