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Dan Mages
05-01-2008, 10:17 PM
Good evening!

Allison and I have FINALLY found a house here in New Haven. The house has hardwood under the carpeting in the bedrooms and in the dining room/family room area. I am sure they will need to be refinished. I know I can rent a sander at the local Borg, but is this truly a DIY job? How easy is it to screw this up?

Thanks!!

Dan

Tom Godley
05-01-2008, 10:49 PM
Yes you can do it - it depends on the condition of the floors as to the ease.

The professional floor sanders -- like a Clark -- often run on 220v -- but I have rented units that are 110V. You must be very careful with this type of unit. They are very heavy and the motor sits directly over the sanding drum - If you know what you are doing they are very quick and do a great job. I would not recommend this type for your first job - this would be especially true if the room is small. They sand so fast that you can end up with ruts in the floor.

I like to use the type of unit with the drum out front -- they are much easier to use. If you run into any problem you just pivot the front up and the drum is off the floor. I would also recommend that you start with a finer grit paper the first time you use the machine - this way you can learn without the danger of over sanding. Then you can go with the more aggressive grit if need be.

If the floors are in good shape -- I have used a large pad type sander -- they used to be rented under the "Varathane" name -- they make all types of floor products -- very good by the way.

I also like to use the minwax professional line of stains -- they are very good - I can not think of the name:( They are especially good in the darker colors -- I often use the rosewood -- have it in my house now.

I still like the oil based products for floors - you will get many ideas on this. Also, many people like to use a sanding sealer for the first coat - I have never found any difference.

The floor will be easier to refinish with out the quarter mld down but that may not be possible in your case. Also you will need to get a good scraper to get into the corners and other odd areas.

You may also need to rent an edge sander - be very careful with this also!

As with any finish project- pep is most of the job - when I really wanted to do a good job I would do a light sand between coats and do a quick wipe off with a rag dampened with mineral spirits (if using oil poly)

If you look up a floor supplier they normally have all the pro finish products -- they can be a better place to get info than the place where you rent the sander or sanders.

Tim Lesak
05-01-2008, 11:13 PM
I install flooring for a living. What size room or rooms are you refinishing? What condition are the floors in, cupped or gapped out between boards? If the floors are relatively flat you can screen them and recoat, if they are tore up pretty bad you will probably need to take it down a little. A big drum or belt sander can destroy a floor faster than the time it took you to read this, be careful very very very carefull. If you are going to sand with drum or belt sander chose a finer grit than what you think you will need to help with the learning curve, less agressive = less damage. For the DIY'er I would recommend more passes with a fine grit versus fewer passes with say 16 grit then changing to finer grit as you go. I would also advise you to use a water born product versus oil or solvent based finishes, unless you like the strong smell of the fumes. You can check out floorpro.com the guys there will be happy to give you some free advice and tips. Good luck with your project.

Greg Cuetara
05-01-2008, 11:51 PM
I made this mistake once....I have about 800 ft2 of red oak floors which needed to be refinished. I went out and rented a big drum floor sander and went to town...I certainlly agree with the comments above about starting with a finer grit to at least get to know the machine. They also make machines which have 4 small circular pads which can be rented and they will cause much less damage even with the coarser pads.

If I were to do it again I would sub out the sanding. A professional can get in and out in a day and leave the house dust free. A professional will also leave a perfectly smooth floor. I have a few spots which have the swirls and doing it once I now know what to look for and would try to not make the same mistakes again. Do NOT underestimate the amount of dust which will be airborne. I think the 4 pad machines have better dust collection but I have not used one.

Back to your original questions. Is this a diy project. The short answer is yes. You can sand and you can finish. The sanding is harder and the finishing is easier...if you can find something which does not smell all the better.

Good Luck. Take pictures and let us know how you make out.
Greg

Rick Gifford
05-02-2008, 12:25 AM
I recently refinished my wood floors. Never had done it before. Look online at the DIY instructions. Take your time and you'll be fine.

I rented the square sander:

87562

Disadvantages: It is less aggressive than the drum sanders and takes more time.

Advantages: It is less aggressive than the drum sanders and beginner friendly. The drum sander will cut into the floor if you dont handle it right. A deep groove isnt what we are looking for! Plus with the square sander it is not necessary to rent the extra edge sander as this will get right up to the edge and corners.

Buy plenty of sandpaper. The rental shops will take back unused paper.

For the finish I used water based. It doesnt have the odor, dries faster, and these have come a long way from their start. These finishes are good. It was recommended four coats minimum on high traffic areas, I went with six.

Rich Engelhardt
05-02-2008, 6:59 AM
Hello,
Very doable for a DIY'er.

Rent a U-Sand.
It has 4 ROS pads on the bottom, weighs 200#, runs on 110V, and has an enormous vacuum in the center.
It's slower than a drum, uses more coarse pads/sandpaper but is infinitely safer and easier than a drum machine, since it removes mostly just the old finish and very little wood.

- Remove the baseboards.
- Repair any areas which need it, use a broad knife to remove any "caked on" residue from old carpet padding.
- Vacuum the floor
- Use a lot of coarse pads - I used 80 grit since the floor was in decent shape.
- Vacuum
- Use a finer grit pad and go over the entire surface - I used 150
- Vacuum
- Use a still finer grit - I used 180 - and go over the whole floor.
- Vacuum
- (optional but recommended) Wipe down the whole floor with denatured alcohol.
- Stain if desired.
- Buy or rent a set of 500W halogen lights and position them behind you as you apply the finish coat(s). The light will help you see which areas have been missed.
- Apply the first coat of clear. I used Min wax water based poly semi gloss floor finish for it's low odor and ability to dry quick enough to get three coats down in one weekend.
- Apply second coat according to directions.
- Apply third coat according to directions.
I stopped at three coats - a.) because it's a rental. b.) I ran out of weekend. If it were a room in the house I live in, I'd have given it a fourth coat.

Forgive the low quality of the picture showing the finished room. The closeup gives a much better idea of how it turned out.
Including rental and materials, I did this ~ 15 x 20 living room and hallway for just shy of $300.00.

I credit the U-Sand machine for making the job a DIY project. I geared up with open windows and a respirator in anticipation of a "dust storm" which never happened. The U-Sand was virtually dust free in operation.
During each phase of the sanding, from coarse to fine, I'd stop and stand back to see if I could see dust floating n the air as I looked towards the front window. I couldn't detect any during the entire process.

Al Willits
05-02-2008, 8:58 AM
Being in the I did it once category, I'd say, stay away from the drum sander.
They do a great job if your good with one, your floor is not the place to learn that though.

Take your time and use much less aggressive sandpaper than you think you need, a experienced floor finisher can grind away and leave no marks, I doubt you'll have the same luck.

We will be doing the living room floor soon and I'll use a medium size belt sander, taking a little at a time.

Probably better ways, but this is what seems feasible for my skill level.

Al

Jim Becker
05-02-2008, 8:59 AM
Having just watched my flooring crew refinish the floor in our great room, I personally would not do it as a DIY project. It can be SO easy to over sand and I know what that means as someone in the past did the floor in what is currently our TV room and it's down to about 5/8" thick with no subfloor and about 24" between centers on the joists below. If you do choose to go the DIY approach, be careful. And perhaps you might consider subcontracting the sanding and doing the finishing yourself. Renting a big pad sander for between the second and third coat is a lot easier job than doing all the sanding yourself. IMHO, of course...

Rich Engelhardt
05-02-2008, 6:02 PM
Hello Al,

We will be doing the living room floor soon and I'll use a medium size belt sander, taking a little at a time.
I'll save you the trouble.
I tried that on the floor pictured above. The wood is/was in decent shape, but the ~ 45/50 year old varnish had seen far better days. It was worn almost off in several areas, so I attacked one of those areas with a 3x21 belt sander w/80 grit belts.
I must have gone through 3 of them in an area ~ 2'x3' and spent the better part of an hour doing so.

I'd remembered seeing the U-Sand on an episode of TOH, so when I saw one at Home Depot for rent, I jumped all over it.

Remarkable tool. Honestly.

It made the job so easy, I can't begin to describe how little effort it took.
Since it's really just a big ROS, it also removes very little of the wood under the finish.
Even the 80 grit disks I used for the first pass removed mostly just the old finish, and no or little wood.
Timewise, that whole floor took roughly 5 hours to sand completly down

Al Willits
05-02-2008, 10:15 PM
Hello Al,

I'll save you the trouble.
I tried that on the floor pictured above. The wood is/was in decent shape, but the ~ 45/50 year old varnish had seen far better days. It was worn almost off in several areas, so I attacked one of those areas with a 3x21 belt sander w/80 grit belts.
I must have gone through 3 of them in an area ~ 2'x3' and spent the better part of an hour doing so.

I'd remembered seeing the U-Sand on an episode of TOH, so when I saw one at Home Depot for rent, I jumped all over it.

Remarkable tool. Honestly.

It made the job so easy, I can't begin to describe how little effort it took.
Since it's really just a big ROS, it also removes very little of the wood under the finish.
Even the 80 grit disks I used for the first pass removed mostly just the old finish, and no or little wood.
Timewise, that whole floor took roughly 5 hours to sand completly down


Thank you sir, while I don't mind taking a little extra time, it appears me and a belt sander would be dealing with changing seasons and you know who getting impatient, I'll look into one of them things, once again, thanks.

Al

Dan Mages
05-03-2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks for all of the info! I am going to have to consider this carefully. If I decide to do it myself, I may try a small bedroom where a mistake is less important. Can I use my ROS for the edges? Outside of Minwax, are there any other finishes I should look into?

Dan

Rich Engelhardt
05-04-2008, 5:37 AM
Hello,

Can I use my ROS for the edges?
I do. Well, sort of.
If you remove all the baseboard, the U-Sand - being a ROS - can get up nice and tight to the walls. It does beat up the walls some though. You can see it in the above picture if you look close.
Inside and outside corners, and around door casings you'll need to use a ROS.
If you leave the baseboards on, then rent the edge sander.
It's a lot heavier and beefier and has a lot more torque & is a lower speed (usually) than a ROS.
Since the floors I usually do are in rehabs, and the baseboards are in tough shape, I just tear them out and replace them.

K. L. McReynolds
05-04-2008, 7:26 AM
Just finished installing/finishing a new floor in recently purchased house. Used unfinished #2 maple, 3/4" by 2&1/4". Used a U-Sand machine for initial sanding---agree with all previous reports---dust free and awesome. It does take more time than a drum sander---but for DIY it is much safer!!!!!!

Then used an over the shelf life finish on two rooms. Had to take it off after it finally dried. Used a buffer sander with screen. That type is better for removing finish than the U-Sand, IMHO.

Final sanding was with 100 grit on the buffer sander(in the bad finish rooms) and 150 on the U-Sand. Cannot tell any difference between them after applying three coats of MinWax Floor Poly.(Gloss)

One thing I learned about applying finish. I used the lambs wool applicators and had about 800 sq. ft. of area in three bedrooms, hall, and living room. One refill was only good for a gallon of finish. Much more than that and the coverage got spotty. Don't know why, but used five refills for last two coats and got better results.