Advice/Help on Stanley No 4

[Mark Engel]

I sure could use some help and/or advice on a Stanley No 4 that I just purchased. This is my first Bailey style plane, but I do hope to pick up more as I can.

Based on reading the plane type study, I believe this to be a type 17. So, is that good or bad?:o

My main question is about positioning the frog on the bottom casting. The mounting holes in the frog allow from some movement back and forth. When I got this and took it apart, the iron mounting surface of the frog was aligned with the back opening in the mouth. Keep in mind that this plane does not have the frog adjusting screw.

Are there any other quirks that I need to be aware of with this plane? Any and all advice is welcomed. I am not a collector. I am just looking for good users. Is this a good user?

TIA

[Mark Engel]

Oh yeah, where can I pick up a cap screw? The cap screw on this one is MIA.

[Jeff Hallam]

PM sent about the cap screw.

[Jim Reed]

Your #4 is a good plane to learn with. As soon as you acquire the cap screw, it should be ready to go if the blade is sharp. Sounds like the frog is adjusted OK. You need a flat geometric plane where you can position the blade. It should be supported by the frog and the bottom of the plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Your #4 is a good plane to learn with. As soon as you acquire the cap screw, it should be ready to go if the blade is sharp. Sounds like the frog is adjusted OK. You need a flat geometric plane where you can position the blade. It should be supported by the frog and the bottom of the plane.

I go along with some of this. Though the blade usually does not get support from the bottom of the plane. The bevel being down usually prevents this. My method is to have the frog mounted with the screws tightened to allow just a little movement. Then I will hold a blade on the frog and move it around with the blade sticking well through the bottom. When it feels like it is settled with no gaps, the blade is carefully withdrawn and the screws are tightened. Then all is assembled and test shavings are made. Both sides of the blade are tested. The goal here is to get even shavings from all along the cutting edge. If much lateral adjustment is needed, then the blade is checked for square, then the mouth and finally the frog. The surface of the frog could be out or the frog could be mounted a little out of square.

Also when the mouth is closed a bit, the blade will not touch the bottom no matter how far it comes through.

Setting the frog can be a pain. Getting a frog to present the blade square to the sole takes a bit of trial and error. If it is off just a little, the lateral adjustment can compensate. If it is off a lot, take it apart and give a little adjustment.

Have fun,

jim

[Mark Engel]

Your #4 is a good plane to learn with. As soon as you acquire the cap screw, it should be ready to go if the blade is sharp. Sounds like the frog is adjusted OK. You need a flat geometric plane where you can position the blade. It should be supported by the frog and the bottom of the plane.
The cap screw has been offered, thanks Jeff Hallam.

The blades was fairly sharp, it just needed to be honed a bit.

[Mark Engel]

I go along with some of this. Though the blade usually does not get support from the bottom of the plane. The bevel being down usually prevents this. My method is to have the frog mounted with the screws tightened to allow just a little movement. Then I will hold a blade on the frog and move it around with the blade sticking well through the bottom. When it feels like it is settled with no gaps, the blade is carefully withdrawn and the screws are tightened. Then all is assembled and test shavings are made. Both sides of the blade are tested. The goal here is to get even shavings from all along the cutting edge. If much lateral adjustment is needed, then the blade is checked for square, then the mouth and finally the frog. The surface of the frog could be out or the frog could be mounted a little out of square.

Also when the mouth is closed a bit, the blade will not touch the bottom no matter how far it comes through.

Setting the frog can be a pain. Getting a frog to present the blade square to the sole takes a bit of trial and error. If it is off just a little, the lateral adjustment can compensate. If it is off a lot, take it apart and give a little adjustment.

Have fun,

jim

After the quick hone to the blade I put things back together. I actually used the method you described to set the frog position. Beginner's luck, I guess.

It does appear that the edge on the blade is not quite square to the sides. I had to use the lateral adjustment to square it to the mouth. To get the blade squared I had to move the lateral to the right. It is now at a point where the top of the lateral adjuster is just outside of the right edge of the angled portion of the blade. I seems to work pretty well at this setting. Is this something that can be left alone until the next sharpening, at which time I can correct the slight skew to the edge?

Now I know this is a touchy subject, but, here goes. How close to the blade edge do you normally set the cap iron.

You also mentioned that you test both sides of the blade. How do you go about doing that?

TIA

[Jim Koepke]

After the quick hone to the blade I put things back together. I actually used the method you described to set the frog position. Beginner's luck, I guess.

It does appear that the edge on the blade is not quite square to the sides. I had to use the lateral adjustment to square it to the mouth. To get the blade squared I had to move the lateral to the right. It is now at a point where the top of the lateral adjuster is just outside of the right edge of the angled portion of the blade. I seems to work pretty well at this setting. Is this something that can be left alone until the next sharpening, at which time I can correct the slight skew to the edge?

It will work fine. I like to set mine up for minimal adjustment for an even cut from side to side. Then the adjuster can be used for those times when one wants to take a little more from one side than the other.


Now I know this is a touchy subject, but, here goes. How close to the blade edge do you normally set the cap iron.

This is one of those things that since there is not an exact answer, people just do what is comfortable. Anywhere from a slight line of blade showing under the edge of the cap iron to 1/8 inch. IMO, those are the extremes. Too close to the edge and the plane may start choking if the mouth is set tight. Too far and the adjustment range may not work or you could get a lot of blade vibrations.


You also mentioned that you test both sides of the blade. How do you go about doing that?

TIA

By this I mean the right hand side of the plane and the left hand side. Some suggest that to have even wear on the blade one should move the plane not only along the length of the piece being planed, but if it is a narrow edge, start the cut engaging one side of the blade and move the plane to the opposite side of the blade so as to finish the cut on the other side of the blade. To even things out, start some cuts on the right side of the plane and end on the left side of the blade. Start the next cut on the left side of the plane and end on the right side.

If one sharpens their blades with a slight curve, this may not work as well as going with the center of the blade. If just a slight rounding of the corners of the blade or the blade is sharpened straight, this method will work fine.

When I am setting up a plane on a piece of scrap, the blade is retracted and slowly lowered until it just starts to cut. Then a cut is taken across the width of the blade and the lateral is adjusted as needed. When the blade is taking even cuts across the width, the blade is lowered for the cut desired.

If it takes a lot of adjustment with the lateral lever, then I want to know why. If it is something like a frog adjustment, I will correct it sooner than if it is a slight skew in the blade. Next time the blade needs to be sharpened it will be worked on.
Testing blades by putting a square to my blades from both sides when they are being sharpened is a standard practice.

jim

[Mark Engel]

Thanks Jim. Very valuable information.

I have some time this evening, I think I may play around with some adjustments to the frog to see if I can get the blade to seat a little more square without having to use the lateral to do so.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Jim. Very valuable information.

I have some time this evening, I think I may play around with some adjustments to the frog to see if I can get the blade to seat a little more square without having to use the lateral to do so.

I usually will check the edges of the mouth with a square on the sides to see if that is good to use as a reference. Check from both sides.

The more you try, the more you will learn.

jim