Water pressure?

[Bonnie Campbell]

We finally got a pressure regulator on our water line. The city pressure is so bad it blows out pipes and wrecks faucets. So, now I need to figure out what is a 'standard' water pressure. I think the city pressure ran at 80-90. The regulator we had installed can go from 25-75. Not sure what they set it up at right this moment since they didn't have the do-hickey to measure it, but it's a LOT slower than it had been. I need to have them boost it up some. Any suggestions for a good (standard?) flow rate?

Thanks!

[Fred Haydon]

Being one of them country folk, we've got a well. I have the ability to adjust my water pressure and the local experts around here say that pressure is a personal preference type of a thing. You certainly don't want to damage pipes, joints and fixtures, as was your case, but you do want a practical flow rate with adequate pressure. Play around with different settings until you find one you like.

If you don't have an in-line pressure gauge, I would strongly urge you to get one installed before you start making a lot of adjustments. They are <$20 and I would install it just after you pressure regulator. Then you know what the pressure is at the source, as the pressure drops as you propagate away from that point.

Just my $.02.

Cheers,
Fred

[David Epperson]

Bonnie, I've been right where you are with water pressure. 45psi is a good place to start. You can go up or down from there, but that will give you good shower pressure without blowing pipes and fittings.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I've got the opposite problem. Instead of upgrading the pipes to accomodate the housing boom of the past few decades, the water co installed new meters that cut down on flow and pressure so we'll all get at least something out of the tap.

Take a shower or run the dishwasher, not both.

[David Epperson]

I've got the opposite problem. Instead of upgrading the pipes to accomodate the housing boom of the past few decades, the water co installed new meters that cut down on flow and pressure so we'll all get at least something out of the tap.

Take a shower or run the dishwasher, not both.
You can get around that problem as well, though it's not as inexpensive.
If you look at your water meter as a slow flowing well, you can install a booster pump and a air bladder reservoir - just like a well. Then you can have the pressure and flow that you want - for as long as the reservoir holds out. And the booster pump suction might even coax a bit more flow out of the meter. :D

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I agree with the 45 psi recommendation (for starters). We have a well for outside water use, and we get decent water flow out of it. Our house pressure is around 60psi, which works well for us. Like anything, I'm sure you'll get used to it after a while.

[John Newell]

We were also getting ~90 psi off the town line. My regulator is set to 55 psi. It was a bit of a shock...90 psi made even the low-flow shower heads feel nice...55 psi, we can tell the difference!

BTW, you should be able to find a cheap (<$10) pressure gauge at Lowes or HD - it's the right season (used for in-ground sprinklers, among other things).

[Bonnie Campbell]

Thanks for all the replies! I guess my first hurdle is finding out what the flow is right now, for sure. Then I can have him boost it up from there. Our fridge water dispenser takes forever to fill a glass now. The rest of the low flow I can live with (sort of). Beats calling someone in to fixed busted faucets!

[Tom Veatch]

... Any suggestions for a good (standard?) flow rate?
...

My situation is a private water well in a rural area with submersible pump. Pressure switch set to turn pump on at 40, off at 60. I'd suggest about 50 for a constant pressure supply.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I can't imagine the town pressure being enough to burst a pipe or harm a faucet.

I've seen water pressure ranging from the 40's up to the 60 and 70 PSI and no harm occurs.

I'd wonder first if the water is highly acid and that is what has (over time) ruined the copper and brass.

If it's coming out in pin holes it's acidic and probably hard water.

[David Epperson]

I can't imagine the town pressure being enough to burst a pipe or harm a faucet.

I've seen water pressure ranging from the 40's up to the 60 and 70 PSI and no harm occurs.
I've had line blown off. it's not usually from "normal" city water pressure, but when they hydro test the lines (like after a repair). I would guess that at those times the pressure can spike to some fairly high levels(90psi and higher). Our lines blew because our pressure regulator had trapped some dirt that had gotten in from a broken water main at some point and it let full line pressure get through to the house. That pressure spike blew the lines off of 3 sinks and damaged the connections to a couple more.

[Mike SoRelle]

I've always gone with 55psi, and on many watts regulators, that's the factory setting. Anything less than 60 is well with the safety range of pretty much anything.

When I lived in Raleigh, NC, the city pressure was around 125psi unregulated and after it caused a nearly new water heater to rupture it's tank (lo and behold it's max rating was 120) I had to install one.

I will say it took some getting used to not having an explosive spray in the showers, etc.

I installed mine after the first spigot so I still had one source of high pressure, worked great for spraying off the driveway and things like that.

Mike

[Bonnie Campbell]

After ordering the third replacement sprayer faucet for our kitchen sink we decided it was time for the regulator (Thank goodness I had sense enough to buy a 'lifetime' warranted faucet!). I miss the pressure, but not the added costs.

[Joe Pelonio]

I can't imagine the town pressure being enough to burst a pipe or harm a faucet.

I've seen water pressure ranging from the 40's up to the 60 and 70 PSI and no harm occurs.

I'd wonder first if the water is highly acid and that is what has (over time) ruined the copper and brass.

If it's coming out in pin holes it's acidic and probably hard water.
I worked for 17 years at a water district. Water pressure varies greatly over the system It's determined by the difference in elevation between your home and the reservoir, most of the time a tank, that serves you. Even people a block away from each other on the same reservoir can vary greatly in pressure. For example we live on a steep hill, at the top. Ours is less than those people living at the bottom.

I have seen homes with 125lbs pressure that have had to install a regulator when fixtures broke, especially plastic lawn sprinkler valves. I have also seen homes that do OK with 25 lbs with newer, larger pipes, but at the low end with old galvanized pipes you need at least 50 psi.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have seen homes with 125lbs pressure

One would have to be under a pretty tall column of water to get 125 PSI.
Every person I've encountered who had any additional stuff to affect their city water flow were using booster pumps not restriction regulators.


This is a new one for me.

[Joe Pelonio]

Maybe you live in a flat area? When i worked there it we had the Oakland and Berkeley Hills. The water flowed from a large reservoir (lake) in the Sierra Mountain foothills by gravity in 3 aqueducts to the Walnut Creek pumping plant, where pumps sent it over the hills to the local treatment plants then it's pumped on to the storage tanks on high ground. From there it flows by gravity to the homes and businesses where it can range from 40-130 psi depending on the pressure zone. Elevations within the area range from sea level to over 600'.

This is why in the 1991 Oakland Hills fire they ran out of water. When the tanks ran dry the power lines to the pumps had burned so they couldn't refill them. (since then they have installed generators at the pumping plants).

[Bonnie Campbell]

Okay, they made it out. They checked the flow without the regulator, it was 110. They had it at 40 with the pressure regulator. So I figured I'd have them boost it to 70. We'll see how that does. Blows something, we'll lower it. But still knocked down by 40 psi with the regulator, so should be good.

[Dennis Peacock]

Good move Bonnie. We have a regulator on our city water because it was peaking around 110PSI at the meter and without the regulator, well, I'm just not so sure that I'd want to be repairing faucets and toilets. We have ours set to 60PSI and this works really well for us.

[Greg Funk]

I think you may be mixing up pressure and flow rate. They aren't the same thing. The flow is more a function of the size of your pipes. You can have high static pressure but low flow if the supply pipes are too small. Houses that have hard water may get calcium build-up inside the pipes which restricts flow. That's also why your fridge takes forever to fill up a cup of water. They often use a tiny 1/4" pipe to supply the fridge and it won't fill as fast as a 1/2" pipe.

Greg

[Bonnie Campbell]

Well, whichever, psi or flow rate, it took three times as long to fill a glass of water from the fridge AFTER the regulator was installed. Now it's only about midway in time. A minute to fill a glass just wasn't acceptable when we have the water dispenser inside the fridge.

[Jim Becker]

I wish I had that problem...I'm contemplating buying a booster pump to "complement" our well!

That said, I agree with the sentiment to start at about 45-50 psi and see how that works out. Crank it to 60 if need be.

[John Newell]

Our town water is 90 psi but we never had anything blow, break or fail prematurely. However, there was no sense tempting fate. We did get some pretty severe hammering every time a valve closed, which isn't good for the plumbing.

[Jason Roehl]

I've got a good friend who is a construction supervisor with the city water department. Static pressure of water is about 0.7psi per foot. So if the top of the water column in the water tower is 100' above your shower head, you would get about 70 psi just behind nozzle, assuming no other restrictions. However, flow rate is determined by pressure and pipe diameter, and as the diameter gets smaller (over a long length of pipe), the pressure can drop due to resistance to flow.

Also, what often will blow pipes and fittings isn't necessarily the pressure itself, but the "water hammer" when something is turned on. After my friend repairs a leak in a water main, they have to crack the upstream valve to allow the main to fill before they open the valve the rest of the way (slowly, of course). What's neat to watch is when they have to do a "Hydrostop"...

[Alan Trout]

Being a home inspector I check water pressure all day long. I found one house that the water pressure was right at 145PSI. It did cause some pretty serious trouble. The T&P valve was dripping at that pressure almost ready to pop. A PEX line pulled off of the water heater and flooded the house. And still no one checked the water pressure till I got there. Pretty much anything under 80PSI is good. On my personal house it is right at 70 to 75PSI and works very well.

When water pressure gets over about 100PSI is when I have seen the most trouble with fixtures.

Good Luck

Alan

[Steve Leverich]

Jason, your friend may have slightly mis-informed you - the actual static pressure of water runs right at 0.43 psi per foot of water column, although in my job as an industrial instrumentation tech we usually refer to it as 27.65 inches of water per pound of pressure. I agree with everything else you wrote though... Steve

[Jason Roehl]

You're right, Steve. It's more likely that I mis-remembered--he told me quite some time ago.

[Lee Schierer]

You can get around that problem as well, though it's not as inexpensive.
If you look at your water meter as a slow flowing well, you can install a booster pump and a air bladder reservoir - just like a well. Then you can have the pressure and flow that you want - for as long as the reservoir holds out. And the booster pump suction might even coax a bit more flow out of the meter. :D
If there is sufficent city pressure but not enough flow, he may just need to install the air bladder type storage tank. The city pressure will fill the tank over time and the tank will take care of his need for more instantaneous flow. It may take some figuring to get the right size tank to meet the needs. The tank will maintain the pressure in the house during the times of increased demand.

[Ken Garlock]

One would have to be under a pretty tall column of water to get 125 PSI.
Every person I've encountered who had any additional stuff to affect their city water flow were using booster pumps not restriction regulators.


This is a new one for me.

Well Cliff, water weighs 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Divide by 144, sq in per sq ft, and we get .433333 lbs/sq in, a foot tall. The number of of 1 sq in. columns a foot high, stacked to reach 125 lbs, is 125/.4333 = 288.46 feet. Yes, that is a lot of feet, but not totally absurd. Most water storage towers a built on a hill which in itself will increase the line pressure, and reduce the height of the water tower.

If people in an area are having water pressure problems, they should be leaving their foot prints on the local mayors desk to get the problem fixed.

[Matt Meiser]

If people in an area are having water pressure problems, they should be leaving their foot prints on the local mayors desk to get the problem fixed.

Depends on where you live. Try that in the City of Toledo and the mayor just might beat you up.

[Lee Schierer]

Our fridge water dispenser takes forever to fill a glass now.
Nearly all water dispensers on refrigerators have filters in them. If the filter is clogged, the flow will be significantly reduced. Also they are usually only serviced by 1/4" tubing which means you are going to have to wait a minute or so to fill a 16 oz glass no matter what pressure you have. Quite often the tubing gets pinched when teh appliance is shoved against the wall, restricting water flow.

[Lee Schierer]

Most water lines and fixtures are made to withstand at least 100 psig. Most city water never gets that high. HOWEVER, if you are at the end of a long run of pipe and you have something that has a high rate of flow and the flow suddenly gets shut off by a valve, the momentum of the water in the pipe can produce a phenomenon known as water hammer. This pulse of pressure can be several times the static pressure of the pipes. Toilets, washing machines, dish washers and even some faucets can close off the flow of water too quickly causing water hammer.

If your pipes jump or you hear a banging noise when ever something in the house shuts off you have water hammer. Water hammer should not be left untreated as it WILL cause damage over time.

They make devices called water hammer arresters that will take care of the water hammer. Their installtion and sizing requires some thought and calculation. One of the cheaper varieties is a simple air trap in the water line. The problem with air trap types is the water eventually absorbs the air and they quit working. The captive bladder type are more reliable over time.

If you have a pressure gauge in the line you will see the needle jump to a much higher pressure for just a second if there is water hammer.

[David Epperson]

Jason, your friend may have slightly mis-informed you - the actual static pressure of water runs right at 0.43 psi per foot of water column, although in my job as an industrial instrumentation tech we usually refer to it as 27.65 inches of water per pound of pressure. I agree with everything else you wrote though... Steve
I snagged my "rule of thumb" on water pressure from scuba experience - water pressure = atmospheric pressure (14.7psi or approx 15psi) at 32ft, and increases by that much every additional 32 ft.

[Kenneth Hertzog]

One pound of pressure is 2.31 Feet of water
ken

[Ken Garlock]

I snagged my "rule of thumb" on water pressure from scuba experience - water pressure = atmospheric pressure (14.7psi or approx 15psi) at 32ft, and increases by that much every additional 32 ft.

Dave, what you describe is the reason that the old hand pump at your great grand mother's place can only work in a well less than 32 ft. deep. Actually, it is more like 26-28 ft., IIRC.

[David Epperson]

Dave, what you describe is the reason that the old hand pump at your great grand mother's place can only work in a well less than 32 ft. deep. Actually, it is more like 26-28 ft., IIRC.
Yep. Getting a bit off topic, but have you ever seen water boil until there is nothing left but ice? That's exactly what happens when water is subjected to a sudden extreme vacuum. Water levels more than 32ft below the pump head would require you to pull more than a total vacuum in order to lift it to the surface as a liquid - I suppose a good vacuum pump could pull the water vapor to the surface to be re-condensed. But I know my arms aren't up to it. :D