I wonder if this guy knows what he has :)

[Mark Engel]

Check this auction. Bidding started at $25.00 with no reserve. So far it's up to $521.00 after ~ 13 hours. 6 days to go, any guesses on the winning bid?

Item number: 180237854703

[Will Blick]

Could you explain the significance of this plane?

[Mark Engel]

I would defer to more experienced folks on this forum to confirm, but, it would appear to be a Stanley Bailey #1.

Collectors love these little guys. :)

[Brian Hale]

Winning bid?

$1429.59

Brian :)

[Mark Engel]

You are probably pretty darn close!

[Mike Henderson]

I just love the description in the title: "Small Plane". What an understatement!

Mike

[Mark Engel]

Well, I mean, it is kinda small, right? :rolleyes:

[Gary Herrmann]

Thats pretty funny. Pretty cool too. I hope the seller is a decent person and is completely baffled at how much that little plane is going for. Everybody deserves a bit of luck now and then.

[Wiley Horne]

The best luck (for the seller, not for the current bidders) is that someone posted it here. Because not many radars are going to pick up 'small plane'.

Wiley

[Don C Peterson]

Reminds me of a saying that involves a blind hog and acorns...

[Jim Koepke]

I think that was listed about a month ago then quickly disappeared. I emailed the seller on that one saying that I hoped they did not settle for a low ball buy it now offer.

Just sent them an email. We shall see.

jim

[Mike Cutler]

"I wonder if this guy knows what he has :)"

If he didn't. He does now.
Gentlemen, start your sniping programs.;)

[Mark Engel]

"I wonder if this guy knows what he has :)"

If he didn't. He does now.
Gentlemen, start your sniping programs.;)

Actually, by the time I posted this there had already been bids by 6 seperate bidders and the price had gone to $521.00. I don't think I was letting this cat out of the bag.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thats pretty funny. Pretty cool too. I hope the seller is a decent person and is completely baffled at how much that little plane is going for. Everybody deserves a bit of luck now and then.

Gary, did you intend to say that ignorance is decent and knowledge not?

Pam

[Mike Cutler]

Actually, by the time I posted this there had already been bids by 6 seperate bidders and the price had gone to $521.00. I don't think I was letting this cat out of the bag.

Mark

I didn't phrase my resonse well. I apologize for that, and certainly no offense was intended.
I wasn't implying that you let the cat out of the bag. I was implying that as soon as he saw the bids go up the way they did. He probably did a little more research to figure out just exactly what he has put up for sale, or at least he should have.

Once again, sorry for the poor wording of my response.

Mike

[Chuck Nickerson]

Gary, did you intend to say that ignorance is decent and knowledge not?

Pam
Gee Pam, it seems clear what Gary meant: since the lister is going to get a lot of unexpected money, Gary hopes they're a nice person. Some of us prefer a world where windfalls go to nice people.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Chuck, I think Gary was saying that he hoped the seller was ignorant of what he had rather than informed and "merely" trying to trick readers. As far as nice guys getting more money, good luck with that.

Pam

[Gary Herrmann]

Gary, did you intend to say that ignorance is decent and knowledge not?

Pam

No, Pam I didn't. My intent was that it would be a nice surprise for the seller if he/she didn't know.

However, I do believe there is a saying ignorance is bliss...

[Chris Padilla]

Interesting...so what do these things go for? Could it really go for over a grand??

[David DeCristoforo]

"...he hoped the seller was ignorant of what he had rather than informed and "merely" trying to trick readers. As far as nice guys getting more money, good luck with that..."

I would think that the seller did not realize the value of the plane. For one thing, the description is not presented in an informed manner. Also, if he did realize the value, setting a starting price of $25 would be pointless. If the seller was thinking that this would "trick" someone, how it would do so escapes me. And FWIW, the idea that you must be something other than a "nice guy" to experience good fortune.... well I'm glad my world is not so bleak.... Someone needs to send you a box of chocolates and some flowers! PM me with your address and I will do it myself.

[Mark Engel]

Mark

I didn't phrase my resonse well. I apologize for that, and certainly no offense was intended.
I wasn't implying that you let the cat out of the bag. I was implying that as soon as he saw the bids go up the way they did. He probably did a little more research to figure out just exactly what he has put up for sale, or at least he should have.

Once again, sorry for the poor wording of my response.

Mike

No apologies were/are neccessary. I took no offense. I was really trying to say what you just said. When the seller saw how fast and high the bidding went, he must have known at that point that he was selling something worth a lot more than he knew.

And just to clear things up a little more, the seller is tinysally, so maybe she didn't realize what she had. ;)

[Jim Koepke]

No, Pam I didn't. My intent was that it would be a nice surprise for the seller if he/she didn't know.

I have communicated with a few sellers who did not know anything about what they were selling.

One recently had three scrapers listed, a 12, 12-1/2 and a 12-3/4. He did not have a clue. They were all bought at a farm estate sale.

He was lamenting that the buy it now was not working correctly for him. He told me he intended to list it as "buy it now" for $75. The auction closed at $1937 plus shipping.

He was pleasantly surprised.

Many people spend their time at yard sales, flea markets and estate sales to buy stuff they think they can sell for a few bucks profit on eBay. Hopefully they are decent people and not trying to trick people.

jim

[Mark Engel]

Interesting...so what do these things go for? Could it really go for over a grand??

I seem to remember one of these sold for somewhere in the high $900 range on the Bay in the past. I have also seen auction house listings showing that they have sold for $1,000 or more.

Here is one that sold for $935.51 2 days ago. Item number: 380020289020 . WOW

[Jim Koepke]

No apologies were/are neccessary. I took no offense. I was really trying to say what you just said. When the seller saw how fast and high the bidding went, he must have known at that point that he was selling something worth a lot more than he knew.

And just to clear things up a little more, the seller is tinysally, so maybe she didn't realize what she had. ;)

Quite often when I see a listing like this, I do as was done with this one. An email is sent to the seller telling them a little about the item and if they would like to know more about the item they should check out rexmill or blood & gore or another site if appropriate.

I have received replies from many saying how helpful they found the information and expressing their pleasure in finding that there are still some folks who will help others.

It is my feeling that helping to educate others will, in the long run, help all of us. Whether it is those of us who seek old hand tools or any other endeavor in which we may be engaged.

jim

[Mike Spanbauer]

A minty one can fetch $3k and a Minty / NIB (new in box) has netted north of $5k. There was a discussion recently over at another wood forum that talked about this exact plane given a recent relative's discovery / sharing session with his grandparents. they were speechless needless to say.

mike

[Wiley Horne]

Jim,

You're exactly right. And the seller here could use some help. She certainly does not know what she has, or she would not list it as 'small plane'.
Or describe it as walnut--it's rosewood. All the typology details are omitted, except for the late entry on the blade markings.

I'm no expert on Stanley Bailey's, but this one looks to be an early type (like 1-4), and original. I see no patent dates forward of the tote foot. Knob is beaded and set flat on the bed. Has a very good tote also, unlike the one that just went for $900+ with a broken off and reworked horn.

Wiley

[Clint Jones]

I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price.

[Gary Herrmann]

I have received replies from many saying how helpful they found the information and expressing their pleasure in finding that there are still some folks who will help others.

It is my feeling that helping to educate others will, in the long run, help all of us. Whether it is those of us who seek old hand tools or any other endeavor in which we may be engaged.

jim

Yep, and sometimes it comes back to you. I pointed out something to a seller about a North Bros drill once. I later bought a push drill from him, and he threw in a handful of bits - which I thought was very nice of him.

[Mark Engel]

I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price.

I agree that it is the seller's responsibility to do the research necessary to properly set a starting price for an auction.

As far as emailing a seller to tell them what they are selling, I don't see the harm in that. They are going to receive that email after the item has already been listed. The only option they would have is to pull the listing. In most cases, the seller is already pretty happy about seeing their listed item get bid up to prices they hadn't expected. Knowing that the item may be worth more would probably just make them think that price will go higher still.

Now about posting an auction while it is running, I don't see any harm there either. If someone is looking for a specific item to buy, they are more than likely already looking at the main place where they might find that item. If they aren't looking to buy the item being pointed out, seeing that is available is not likely to change their minds. Why would someone just start bidding on an item just because it is available if they previously did not want to buy that item?

[Ron Dunn]

Well done, Jim.

If you hadn't taken this action, it would be the worst case of advantage-taking "gloat" by the buyer popping up in a forum some time soon.

[Matt Bickford]

"...was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price".

This hardly sounds reasonable.

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. Taking advantage of the unsuspecting or uninformed does not need to be a coersive group effort. There is nothing wrong with helping the uninformed, even if it may dissatisfy Clint Jones.

The only thing driving up the price is people willing to pay more than you.

Had you sent her an email saying you'll give her $250 if she takes it down immediately?

[Jim Koepke]

I'm no expert on Stanley Bailey's, but this one looks to be an early type (like 1-4), and original. I see no patent dates forward of the tote foot. Knob is beaded and set flat on the bed. Has a very good tote also, unlike the one that just went for $900+ with a broken off and reworked horn.

Wiley

The No. 1 never had a lateral lever. I am not sure, but I do not think they ever had patent dates nor the model number cast into the bed. They only had two types of bases, not the multiple changes the rest of the production planes went through. This information was all learned from Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore.

I did mention to the seller if the logo was other than the V logo, they should give a good description. If it is an earlier arched logo, I told her it might even fetch a bit more in the bidding.

Just looked and she wrote she believed the words to be arched, but the New Britian is straight. Maybe the T trade mark, 1909-1911.

Guess I should send her a link to Bob Kuane's site.

jim

[Wiley Horne]

Good clarifications, Jim. You're way ahead of me. I wasn't aware of how the No. 1's differed from the other models in terms of type.

Wiley

[Clint Jones]

"...was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price".


Had you sent her an email saying you'll give her $250 if she takes it down immediately?

No I didnt. I dont plan on buying it. I own 5 no.1 planes I dont feel I need another right now. And as to it not satisfying Clint Jones I think that you came across really rude. Its ok I dont plan on participating on this forum anymore anyways. Thanks, Clint

[Jim Koepke]

I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price.

In many ways I can see and agree with your position.
On the other side of the coin, many sellers on eBay have no idea of what they have. They may have seen the plane at a yard sale and thought it was a cute kid's toy that would help them make a few bucks by selling it on eBay.

I do not recall anyone removing an item to relist after I have sent them information. One seller that I used to buy some gouges from was amazed at how he got more interest in his gouges after he started posting pictures showing the sweep. It helps me to not buy duplicates.

I listed information about auctions here as an educational thread and feel guilty because I mentioned bidding on the item and did not get outbid. After receiving the plane, I am glad others did not bid at my suggestion. I entered my max and was not going to go up. The plane did have some problems, but it is working into a good user. Others may have bought the plane and felt bad that there was some stripped threads. I can repair such. Surely some others can also repair threads. Then some would likely have been very upset at such a surprise.

If someone is looking for a particular plane I might mention it in a thread or send them a PM if such is seen during my normal hunts.

I have sent information to the sellers on items I am bidding on. Mostly they are grateful. Some have even offered to send me something if my bid did not win. I usually tell them I will just bid on stuff they have listed in the future if it is something that will fill my want list.

jim

[Matt Bickford]

I can imagine a similar speech being given to the board of Enron before an investor conference.

[Jim McFarland]

<snip> Its ok I dont plan on participating on this forum anymore anyways. <snip>
I hope you reconsider and continue participating on this forum. In particular, in my novice opinion, you provide more credible plane identification information than anyone else on the forum! I read much more than I post but I will certainly miss reading your posts here. If you decide to leave I want to thank you for all the information you generously shared.

[David DeCristoforo]

This whole thread reminds me of something a friend and "fellow woodworker" went through in 1984. He had gotten a call from an elderly woman who had had a burst water pipe in her basement. Plumbers had repaired the pipe and also replaced her water heater. She had called my friend on a suggestion from the plumbers to have someone look for any water damage as it looked like the pipe had been leaking for quite some time.

When my friend went into the basement, he noticed a stack of heavily waxed, dark colored planks against one wall. When he asked the woman about them she told him that they had been under a tarp and that the plumbers had moved them from their original position where they had resided for "as long as we've lived here". She did not have any idea "what was under the tarp" and she told my friend that her deceased husband had been a merchant seaman and that he had "collected all kinds of stuff" over the years.

Needless to say, my friend's curiosity was peaked so he got a scraper and a block plane and cleaned off a small area of one of the planks. It was Brazilian rosewood. The planks were all four inches thick, 12 to 14 inches wide and eight to ten feet long. There were no end checks and no visible surface checking. Each one had a date (1938) and some sort of logo branded into one end. (I'll bet your heart is beating faster now....mine always does when I recount this.)

My friend asked the woman if she would want to "get the planks out of the way" and that, being a woodworker, he was always on the lookout for "useful material". She told him that she really had no idea what they were worth and what would he want to give her for them. He told her he would "figure it out" and talk to her in the next couple of days but he dropped the number $2,000 and noticed her perk right up.

The next morning, he called the CF Martin Co. and spoke to their wood buyer. Based on the amount of wood, the buyer told him that if this was truly 46 year old Brazilian Rosewood and if the planks were actually in the condition described, CF Martin would pay $45,000 for it. Needless to say, the temptation was enormous. Even if he didn't sell the wood to Martin, it still was what it was and he felt sure he could get it for the two grand and maybe even beat the old lady down a bit from there. "Let the buyer (or in this case the seller) beware", right?

But after two sleepless nights he decided (thank God) that he simply would not be able to live with himself if he did this and certainly would get no joy out of having taken advantage of the woman. So he told her what she had and was instantly rewarded by her bursting into tears of joy because she had very little money and $45,000 was a huge windfall for her. So in the end CF Martin got the rosewood, the old lady got the 45 grand and she even toked my friend two thousand dollars.

[Peter Quadarella]

Great story David. I'm glad everyone won on that one. You know what, I tend to think that your friend would have come out a winner whether that nice lady gave him that bonus or not, but I am glad he got something for his legwork. :)

[Wilbur Pan]

Just out of curiosity: is there any way the plane is not a Stanley, but it just happens to have a Stanley blade in it? After all, there are no identifying marks on it.

[Jamie Cowan]

I have that plane, but with a chipped handle. I don't really use it much, but can't get rid of it, as it was my grandfather's. Too bad. Saving up for a new lathe. It's killing me. Refuse to put it on a card, and it's taking forever (about a week so far).

[Tom Veatch]

... is there any way the plane is not a Stanley, but it just happens to have a Stanley blade in it? ...

According to "Blood and Gore (http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm)" it is certainly possible. One company made a corrugated sole version (Stanley's are all flat) and reproductions have been made that vary slightly from the Stanley configuration. However, best I can tell from the auction photos, the item pictured doesn't show the variation Patrick describes.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...And FWIW, the idea that you must be something other than a "nice guy" to experience good fortune.... well I'm glad [I]my world is not so bleak.... Someone needs to send you a box of chocolates and some flowers! PM me with your address and I will do it myself.

Thanks for the thought, David, but my point was that Gary seemed to be praising ignorance. I'm real sensitive these days to the assault on science and smarts (as in I think this attitude is stupid in the extreme and could be the ruination of our country), so it's the last thing I wanted to read on a woodworking forum. My world is not bleak. I don't care whether the seller knows or not or whether s/he is nice or not, just that s/he not be praised for not knowing. :)

Pam

[Gary Herrmann]

Thanks for the thought, David, but my point was that Gary seemed to be praising ignorance.

Pam, just in case I haven't been clear - I was not praising ignorance. I know this is a hot button for you, but if you can read that intent into my statement, please try to allow for other intents as well.

And to be frank, your statement above does lead me to believe your world or worldview is pretty bleak.

[James Mittlefehldt]

That was a great story David, I love hearing stuff like that, it makes me think there is actually hope for the human race, I would have done the same thing.

However I tend to incline to Clint's view regarding ebay, it is a market place and anyone can research prices, if they are too lazy to do so that is I think their problem. My wife and I discussed that ebay auction, she does sell on there from time to time, and her opinion was that if and when someopne has sonmething truly rare the poeple who want that item will seek it out and the price will follow accordingly.

On the other hand though if I go to a garage sale and I see something worth $100 that is being offered at $10, I don't try and beat them down but hand them the ten dollars and thank them.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Hmm! the discussion seems to have veered off track here. If all sellers were aware of the market potential of their wares there would never be any good bargains to be had. After all the basic premise of a good bargain is the reality that the seller does not know the real value of their pocession while the buyer does. There are literally hundreds of stories about people discovering gems from flea markets and garage sales. I don't think anyone would consider sharing their profits with an ill informed flea market merchant. eBay is just like a giant flea market, if you are willing to sell an object without researching it's value I guess you assume the risk of underpricing (or as often happens on eBay, overpricing).

On the other hand it just doesn't seem right to take advantage of a poor soul (like the story David narated).

[Mark Engel]

Hmm! the discussion seems to have veered off track here. If all sellers were aware of the market potential of their wares there would never be any good bargains to be had. After all the basic premise of a good bargain is the reality that the seller does not know the real value of their pocession while the buyer does. There are literally hundreds of stories about people discovering gems from flea markets and garage sales. I don't think anyone would consider sharing their profits with an ill informed flea market merchant. eBay is just like a giant flea market, if you are willing to sell an object without researching it's value I guess you assume the risk of underpricing (or as often happens on eBay, overpricing).

On the other hand it just doesn't seem right to take advantage of a poor soul (like the story David narated).

I agree. If you have access to the auction site, you also have access to the Internet, which can provide the information you need to determine the value of an item you wish to sell. If you don't do that, and the item sells for less than it was worth, that is no ones fault but your own.

My Wife used to work for an auction house that specialized in antique firearms. Every item or collection that was to be offered for auction was thoroughly researched, and the seller was told what it may sell for before anything else happened. If the seller was satisfied with the estimate, the item or collection would be picked up and cataloged for the next auction. The price actually received was obviously always determined at the auction itself. Many items sold for far less than the estimate, but many also sold for much, much more. It is the nature of all auctions, regardless of where they occur.

[Chris Padilla]

I agree. If you have access to the auction site, you also have access to the Internet, which can provide the information you need to determine the value of an item you wish to sell. If you don't do that, and the item sells for less than it was worth, that is no ones fault but your own.

My Wife used to work for an auction house that specialized in antique firearms. Every item or collection that was to be offered for auction was thoroughly researched, and the seller was told what it may sell for before anything else happened. If the seller was satisfied with the estimate, the item or collection would be picked up and cataloged for the next auction. The price actually received was obviously always determined at the auction itself. Many items sold for far less than the estimate, but many also sold for much, much more. It is the nature of all auctions, regardless of where they occur.

It is all human emotion...like the stock market. Real data can help create trends but day-to-day swings are all human emotion! Psychologists or Psychiatrists should be the wealthiest people on the planet!! ;)

[Matt Bickford]

Mark said : "If you don't do that, and the item sells for less than it was worth, that is no ones fault but your own."

This quote is not necessarily true. People can detrimentally influence an otherwise fair market. That's why the SEC exists.

I think it may be the coercive nature of one person chastising another for posting a poorly publicized ongoing auction that I'm opposed to. There is nothing wrong with getting a good deal. After all, the seller must also think they're getting a good deal. Influencing a 3rd party with the intent of influencing the final price is very different, just ask the SEC.

[Tom Veatch]

... I don't think anyone would consider sharing their profits with an ill informed flea market merchant.
I'm going to have to disagree since you used the word "anyone". My personal ethical standards are such that I insist on paying a fair price for anything I buy. If an item is seriously underpriced due to ignorance of the seller, taking advantage of that ignorance is, to my standards, akin to theft by deception. I may pay more for things on occasion, but I have no difficulty facing the person in the mirror.

On the other hand it just doesn't seem right to take advantage of a poor soul (like the story David narated).

Which is more in line with my code of conduct and is something that I can agree with.

[Mark Engel]

I still can't see how it is the buyers responsibility to insure that the seller gets a fair market price for his or her goods. It should be the seller that insures that (s)he prices the item to the market. Obviously, auctions are a bit different, but with on-line auctions, the seller determines the starting price and can set a reserve price to insure that they get a fair price. If the seller does not do that, why should the buyer?

I am also a little confused by references to the SEC. I don't think the SEC gets involved in private party sales of goods, or in private party auctions.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Quite often when I see a listing like this, I do as was done with this one. An email is sent to the seller telling them a little about the item and if they would like to know more about the item they should check out rexmill or blood & gore or another site if appropriate.

I have received replies from many saying how helpful they found the information and expressing their pleasure in finding that there are still some folks who will help others.

It is my feeling that helping to educate others will, in the long run, help all of us. Whether it is those of us who seek old hand tools or any other endeavor in which we may be engaged.

jim

I've also tried to inform sellers, particularly ones I've bought from and want to encourage to keep selling; but with mixed results. For example, Patrick, who sells Japanese tools on the bay, said he appreciated it when I told him what one tool actually was and what it was called; but he never changed the listing. Another, a real dolt selling Japanese chisels ultra cheap from the UK, got his knickers all twisted and became very offensive when I informed him that one tool, a double chisel that looks like a tuning fork, is not used the way he described it (btw, I was quoting Toshio Odate and personal use). Now I no longer bother.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam, just in case I haven't been clear - I was not praising ignorance. I know this is a hot button for you, but if you can read that intent into my statement, please try to allow for other intents as well.

And to be frank, your statement above does lead me to believe your world or worldview is pretty bleak.

Great, Gary, thanks. And while my world view is very bleak this decade, which finally the majority of people in this country are coming to agree with, doesn't mean my life is bleak. I fully expect to live out my life in comfort with good friends, just don't hold out much hope for generations to come. And I've got a great dog living here. :)

Pam

[David DeCristoforo]

"...doesn't mean my life is bleak. I fully expect to live out my life in comfort with good friends..."

Well I'll still send you the flowers and chocolates..... I do have to agree that it is getting harder to maintain a positive attitude in the face of all that is happening in the world today. I wonder though... It it that this is the way it's always been and we just know more about it because of "high tech communications" or are things really getting crazier? Hard to tell sometimes.....

[Matt Bickford]

My intent was not to warn anybody that the SEC may get involved here or at your local garage sale. I hope that wasn't what I insinuated.

I just don't think that trying to discourage 3rd party involvement publicly and privately with the intent of influencing price, which one responder to you did below, would fly on any regulated transaction.

If you see a misprice at a your local auction house and another, non-interested buyer did the same, can you tell him that he shouldn't direct other possible bidder's attention to the possible deal? I doubt it, but I don't know.

[Glenn Clabo]

I fully expect to live out my life in comfort with good friends, just don't hold out much hope for generations to come. And I've got a great dog living here. :)
Pam

ROTFL.....................

[Peter Quadarella]

I wonder though... It it that this is the way it's always been and we just know more about it because of "high tech communications" or are things really getting crazier?

Nail on the head there. Every generation I've spoken with, and the ones I've read about, have always felt the world is going to hell in a handbasket. "Kids these days" and all that. The old fellers were saying that during whatever time you consider the "golden time". It's in the nature of aging, in my opinion.

How about the 70's and early 80's, when crime was rampant, WWIII was on the horizon, whole neighborhoods looked like burned out war fields? Graffiti everywhere? Things are pretty good in my opinion.

Also, I like planes and chisels (trying to stay relevant to the forum :D).

[Mark Engel]

Also, I like planes and chisels (trying to stay relevant to the forum :D).

There ya go! ;)

[Mark Engel]

My intent was not to warn anybody that the SEC may get involved here or at your local garage sale. I hope that wasn't what I insinuated.

I just don't think that trying to discourage 3rd party involvement publicly and privately with the intent of influencing price, which one responder to you did below, would fly on any regulated transaction.

If you see a misprice at a your local auction house and another, non-interested buyer did the same, can you tell him that he shouldn't direct other possible bidder's attention to the possible deal? I doubt it, but I don't know.

My intent was never to try to influence any price. I don't think I read any posts here where the intent was to influence the price. It seemed to me that in this case that Jim was simply trying to educate the seller.

I started the post to show what I thought was an ebay seller that was going to be pleasantly surprised by the interest generated by their auction listing. And especially by the amount of money coming their way, which I can guess was unexpected.

[Matt Bickford]

"I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price."

This is what i'm talking about. I certainly don't think you're trying to influence the price. I do think the poster of this is.

[Chris Padilla]

My intent was never to try to influence any price. I don't think I read any posts here where the intent was to influence the price. It seemed to me that in this case that Jim was simply trying to educate the seller.

I started the post to show what I thought was an ebay seller that was going to be pleasantly surprised by the interest generated by their auction listing. And especially by the amount of money coming their way, which I can guess was unexpected.

Maybe they are being exceptionally clever with their posting (which I doubt) but there was a guy with an auction for Beanie Babies a while back. He just wanted to get rid of them. People posted that he should be more forthcoming with exactly what BB there were and their condition. He posted back that he could care less and just wanted them sold and further stated that you didn't like his auction, DON'T BID! It ended up enormously funny as he posted lots of emails he recieved plus his replies. I know diddley about BB so I dunno if he got good money for them or not.

[Michael Stanley]

And I've got a great dog living here. :)

Pam

gotta love doggies, they make the world a much better place:)

[Mark Engel]

"I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price."

This is what i'm talking about. I certainly don't think you're trying to influence the price. I do think the poster of this is.


I see what you are talking about. But is this person trying to influence the price, or he is trying to prevent the price from being influenced?

There's a nice fine line for you. ;)

[Matt Bickford]

He's against open information and an open market. The line isn't fine. Disclosing this information does not make a buyer pay a premium. It makes the buyer pay fair market value. You could try to make a buyer pay a premium by putting fake bids into the market, not factual information. Trying to limit this information is trying to make the seller sell at a discount, regardless of what they know, and it's coercive. It costs the seller money, it costs ebay money and it costs paypal money.

Just to reiterate. There is nothing wrong with lowballing a seller. They have a right to not sell to you. There is something wrong with trying to discourage a free flow of information.

[Jim Koepke]

"I believe it is the sellers responsibility to research what they have. I dont agree with emailing random people and telling them all about something on ebay especially when I have no intent to bid on the item. By doing this you are making the buyers pay a premium for something that otherwise they may have gotten a little better deal on. I sure wouldnt like it if I had done my research, knew what something is worth, and was planning on trying to buy it for a reasonable price and someone who had no interest at all in the item foils any chance of this. I also dont agree with posting an ebay auction while it is running because it may drive up the price."

This is what i'm talking about. I certainly don't think you're trying to influence the price. I do think the poster of this is.

Until this week, I worked with people who are primarily electronics technicians. Many of them left me scratching my head as to how they ever got the job. Many of them do not have a clue when it comes to the simple matter of searching for information on the internet. I do not have to worry about them any more, my retirement is all but started. They did give me a call yesterday to ask about a few things. If they do it much more, I will have to bill them for phone support.

Just as often as I inform sellers as to what it is they are selling, I have explained to some sellers of their misbegotten idea that the rusty Stanley No. 4 from WWII is worth $125 starting bid.

I have even informed people about items they are selling for which I plan to enter a bid.

Many of these folks may be just getting by. If they know a bit more about the things of interest, maybe they will be less likely to pass it by at the next yard sale and it may end up offered to us on eBay.

I can always dream of a less cutthroat world where the general interest is in working to better our lives through attempts to educate ourselves and others.

Well, there is some wood on my bench that needs my attention.

jim

[Mark Engel]

Don't stay away too long, Jim. I just picked up an old rusty Stanley #7c that I'd like to pick your brain about. :D

[pauline camara]

Quite often when I see a listing like this, I do as was done with this one. An email is sent to the seller telling them a little about the item and if they would like to know more about the item they should check out rexmill or blood & gore or another site if appropriate.

I have received replies from many saying how helpful they found the information and expressing their pleasure in finding that there are still some folks who will help others.

It is my feeling that helping to educate others will, in the long run, help all of us. Whether it is those of us who seek old hand tools or any other endeavor in which we may be engaged.

jim
just want to say thankyou to all that e-mailed about "my small plane" just to let you all know my husband owns a livestock auction and farmers bring in old tools that they do not use. this plane was in a box lot that had another item we wanted. we did not know what the value was. all we knew it looked old. no i never had it on e-bay before. this is a very big surprise to me. i was happy to see it go to 56.00.

[Mark Engel]

A very pleasant surprise, I'd bet.

I have been watching your auction with great interest. I am not bidding, however. A little rich for my blood. I think, in the end, you will be pleasantly surprised at the price that this tool brings.

If you get any more tools like this in the future, you may want to let some of the knowledgeable folks on this site help you figure out a fair value. Good luck in your future acquisitions.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Nail on the head there. Every generation I've spoken with, and the ones I've read about, have always felt the world is going to hell in a handbasket. "Kids these days" and all that. The old fellers were saying that during whatever time you consider the "golden time". It's in the nature of aging, in my opinion.

How about the 70's and early 80's, when crime was rampant, WWIII was on the horizon, whole neighborhoods looked like burned out war fields? Graffiti everywhere? Things are pretty good in my opinion.

Also, I like planes and chisels (trying to stay relevant to the forum :D).

I wasn't lamenting some sorry state of the younger generations, more the mess we boomers are leaving behing.

Pam

[Stephen Jackson]

Is this a reasonable price?

[Chris Padilla]

I'd like to state that I put in a bid up to $675 simply after reading this thread but I was fairly certain it wouldn't last or hold...and it didn't! :)

[Richard Niemiec]

I've seen this debate about should we talk about ebay auctions or not in other forums, and the simple fact is we all flatter ourselves that mention of a particular auction in a forum will drive the price above what the overall market will pay for the item. Heavens to Betsy, even if everyone registered on this forum looked, and those interested did bid, we're still a pimple on the arse of an elephant compared to the worldwide audience of ebay. I say point out and talk all you want, it makes no effective difference in moving the "market value."

I could be wrong, but somehow I don't think so. RN

[Chris Padilla]

I'd like to see a show of hands if anyone else who saw this thread bid on the plane. Did anyone here end up the winner? Just curious....

[Don C Peterson]

Is this a reasonable price?

For me, no, but for the guy who won, the answer is obviously different...

[Mike Cutler]

I'd like to state that I put in a bid up to $675 simply after reading this thread but I was fairly certain it wouldn't last or hold...and it didn't! :)

Nothing wrong with that Chris.
I didn't bid on it, I have no real use for it actually. I can admire, and appreciate them for what they are,and would love to see the one's in Clint's collection, just to say I had. But if find myself needing a #1. I'll just contact LN.;) ( What a snob, eh.:D,;))

I like the way this auction played out personally. The seller, Betsy, found a treasure amongst a box of "stuff' they were forced to buy, to get another item they knew was of value.( I'm willing to bet that Betsy could tell us that they have purchased other lots that were just so much junk after it was all said and done.)
The buyer got a plane that has significance in itself, but at a price that it can actually be refurbed ,without destroying it's value if done properly, and be used, sold, or passed on.
It didn't hit a landfill, and it well could have. Well done to the buyer, and seller.
It was a fun auction to watch. Sorry you didn't win the auction though. That would have been cool.:cool: Then you would have had to visit the Neander' forum more.:eek:,:D.

[Richard Niemiec]

I'd like to see a show of hands if anyone else who saw this thread bid on the plane. Did anyone here end up the winner? Just curious....


I know the guy's ebay handle who won, he's a tool dealer from upstate NY. Nice guy, has some really nice tools everytime I see him at a tailgate event. He's not a member here.

[Mark Engel]

I did not bid on this either. I am just trying to build up a small collection of user planes. It was during my search on the BAY that I found that listing.

Now if I saw a #1 selling for $25.00, then I would buy it and you would probably see it for sale again shortly thereafter. :D

[Jim Koepke]

I did not bid on this either. I am just trying to build up a small collection of user planes. It was during my search on the BAY that I found that listing.

Now if I saw a #1 selling for $25.00, then I would buy it and you would probably see it for sale again shortly thereafter. :D

A #1 can also be a user. Good for small things and small areas of swirling grain.

jim

[Mark Engel]

I would have to find one selling for considerably less than $915.00 if I was looking for a good user. ;)