Older Craftsman RAS...worth the buy?

[Scotty Stepp]

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post:). I am in the process of setting up my first woodworking shop on a limited budget. I have been checking Craigslist regularly for good deals. There is an: "10" Older Craftsman Radial Arm Saw Works Great Plus Extra Parts And Stand included. Do you think this is worth $100? What should I be looking out for? I have never owned a RAS so any advise would be welcome.

Here is the link: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/660562182.html

Thank you!

[Montgomery Scott]

I owned an 70's Craftsman RAS that gathered dust for five years after I purchased a unisaw. I would rather have a sliding CMS than a RAS. My RAS ended up going back to Emerson in exchange for a $100 check.

[Greg Hines, MD]

If your question is, "Should I buy a radial arm saw?", then I would say yes. I used to have a RAS and loved it for making dados and tenons, as well as general crosscutting.

If your question is, "Should I buy this particular saw?", it gets a bit fuzzy. The age of it is important, as many would say that an RAS from the '60s or '70s would be ok, but later models have a lot of quality issues.

That said, for $100, I would get it.

Doc

[NICK BARBOZA]

i just sold one for $100.

If this is your first shop i would say no. I consider the RAS to be a bit of a luxury. It will not replace a compound miter saw but would compliment the shop well. If i had the space i would have loved to keep it. but when my shop gets bigger i will probably buy a used one.

Save your money and put it towards a SCMS.

Nick

[Tom Godley]

I have also thought about picking up a nice used RAS for the shop. When I first started woodworking that is what was around -- somewhat of a comfort level for me.

The reason that miter saws have all but eliminated the RAS from the homeowner market is that for most of us they are a better fit for what we work on.

You need to start out with a good RAS to insure an accurate cut - the cheaper units had more movement or flex in the arm than you would think. I would never try and rip with one and even with the larger table that they have you still need to create some type of extension for larger work.

A new miter saw can be purchase that is more powerful and accurate for a very reasonable price -- In addition they can do compound cuts that are safer than using a RAS. In addition -- they are portable.


The only reason for a RAS IMO would be if you are cutting long 2x12s all day in the shop - not likely.

Look around for a nice miter saw -- I think hat is the way to go. You also do not have to go with a large 12" blade. Think about what you will be cutting and buy accordingly. I feel more comfortable using a smaller saw because I cut mostly trim with it and some smaller 2x. I did not need a miter saw for the two cuts a year on a 2x12

[john bateman]

I had and junked one very similar to that. As someone else mentioned, if you need to crosscut a lot of long stock it's useful. But it's not a precision machine, and gets out of alignment easily.

[Brad Noble]

I have an older Craftsman RAS (9") and a Hitachi 8" SCMS. I bought the RAS for $75.00 and it works pretty well but as others have said, they are sometimes more trouble than they are worth to keep aligned. I have decided (no brainer actually) to return it to Emerson for the $100.00 payment and start using the SCMS instead. They both take up about the same space on the workbench too. Only difference, and its a larger concern, is the space between the fence and shop wall the SCMS needs as opposed to the RAS. But, what the heck, buy it for $75 and return it freight prepaid and get $100 back makes it an easy sacrifice.

Brad

[Scotty Stepp]

Thanks a lot guys, really helps my decision. I think I will hold off for now and save money for the SCMS.

-Scotty

[Jack Vines]

FWIW, it's a mystery to me why the RAS has lost favor with woodworkers. I've used one for forty years and consider it right up there as the best $100 you can invest. If you can find an older Craftsman, DeWalt, Delta or Walker-Turner, for that price they are a worthwhile addtion to any shop.

A RAS does take some care to set up properly and get everything squared up. Once one of the good RASs is installed in a bench against a wall, it should stay in adjustment as long as you do.

As previously mentioned, there are many cuts the RAS makes better than any other saw. Worth mentioning here, European safety regs do not allow blind dadoes and rabbits on a table saw. Not safe to work where the blade is not visible. With a bit of instruction from someone who knows how and reasonably safety precautions, the RAS has the versatility to make most any cut.

The RAS is certainly a distant third for ripping. The band saw is by far the best; a table saw if you don't have a band saw, and the RAS if that's what you have. The RAS was the only stationary power tool I had back in the day and I built two houses with it. While it is certainly not the best tool for ripping, hundreds of board feet have gone through my old Craftsman.

It is always your tool, your decision, your money, but my old Craftsman RAS would never be cut up for scrap and a $100 bounty.

thnx, jack vines

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

A table saw might be a tad more manageable and safer.
I'd consider an older RAS if it were a Delta Rockwell.
That Craftsman does not look like it comes from the period when Craftsman was making strong tools.

[Terry Browne]

I have a Craftsman RAS that I bought in the mid-seventies and recently added the new table and guard the comes from Emmerson Electric as part of the RAS recall. I like the new guard and I think it's a huge safety upgrade for this saw. That being said, I use my RAS strictly for cross cutting long boards that I'd rather not cut on the miter saw.

I think the RAS is the single most dangerous saw in use today and I would never again rip, dado or do any other cuts with it. Even when making cross cuts - you have to put your shoulder into the work because the saw tends to pull itself into the cut and it can be difficult to control.

If I were you, I'd pass on the RAS and look for a good table saw at the same price.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

I have a saw, almost identical to that. The more I try to use it, the more wacked it seems to get.

I've rebuilt the deck, spent quite a bit of time trying to square and level everything, but anything more the 2 boards.... forget it.

I keep trying and it keeps trying me.

I guess being free, I got what I paid for.:o

[Mack Cameron]

Hi Scotty; If you have a boat, buy it, it'll make a great anchor.

The only good RAS is a dead one. Some opinions may differ!

Save your bucks for an SCMS, a Makita 12". You'll never regret the purchase. Again, some opinions may differ!

[Jack Vines]

As has been said, "Opinions are worth what you pay for them." I'll admit to no experience with the '70s and later RAS. However, my '50s model, once trued-up and fitted with a sharp blade, doesn't pull through cuts, stays square, and generally gives a good account of itself.

Those RAS about which I hear complaints, when I offer to help, I generally find them on the flimsy stamped steel stands, having been dragged around the shop or in-and-out of doors, duller-than-dirt-cheap-carbide blades, running on 110v Christmas light cords, no clue where all the adjustments are or where to begin; the most recent had NO rear fence - his complaint, "It don't cut straight." Because they are inexpensive to buy, they don't get no respect.

Keeping one's head in the game is the only real safety feature. FWIW, I've read there are statistically far more injuries per hour of use with jointers and shapers than anything else. The cutting head is usually hidden under the stock and the woodworker starts thinking ahead about the next step and then there's red sawdust.

thnx, jack vines

[Brad Noble]

Allow me to clarify a little bit. The RAS saw I own (model 113.29350) comes up on the web site http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com as "No Kit Available". So, I called the toll free number listed and spoke to a very nice lady who explained that my saw was too old to have a fence and guard kit available so I had a couple of options. One was to return my saw to them for the $100 refund.

Based on my current situation the exchange option made the most sense to me.

Brad

[BOB OLINGER]

Scotty,

You've got a lot of responses - pro and con. Here's my 2 cents. I think it depends on how much room you have, extent of budget, and what you plan to use it for. Radial arm saws are best for cross cutting dimensial lumber like in house construction. You can also do some ripping. Also, I like mine to cross cut/ size down longer stock, keeping the blade on my miter saw set for finer work. I also like it to do cross cut dato work. So, I have a place for it. Now, on the other side, a lot of woodworking can be done without one. If the choice was for the only saw for a period of time, look for a table saw; then add the miter saw; then the radial arm. If you plan to purchase all of these soon for your collection of tools, have at it, then continue to look for the table saw and miter saw.

[Nigel Tracy]

As a relatively new woodworker as well I'll chime in. While I was getting excited about assembling my own shop about a year ago, a family member offered me (free) an old dewalt RAS, over 30 years old, that had been sitting for a while. I accepted.

With a little setup and a new blade the thing seemed to cut very well. Unfortunately, while trying out some beginner projects like little boxes, I quickly realized that alignment had to be checked nearly every cut to ensure fine accuracy. A year later, and doing more than ever in the shop, I rarely use the radial arm saw--only for the occasional cross dado on a wide board or for a very wide cut. I'm much happier employing other methods that feel far safer for regular crosscuts (and I agree that I would never choose to rip with it).

Have fun!

[Jeff Bratt]

I have pretty much that saw - from the 80's. It was my only saw for years. They are fussy to align, but mine has worked well for me - made many picture frames, so I know the miters can be good. The biggest improvement was getting the right blade - that's the reason cutting seems "grabby". You need blade with a low or negative hook angle - like http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1197, http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1201, a Forrest WWI, or equivalent.

This saw should also be eligible for the Emerson Electric recall - http://www.radialarmsawrecall.com/ - which gets you a new, improved blade guard - plus a new table and lots of other stuff I still have sitting in a corner of the shop.

Now that I also have a table saw, the RAS gets used a lot less - ripping on this was always tricky. But crosscutting is safer than on a table saw - you are not pushing your work towards a spinning blade, and there's no kickback problem. Also having a second saw in the shop is great, especially when I have a dado stack on the table saw. The RAS is very versatile with angle cuts and this one can crosscut 13-15 inches wide - depending on stock thickness. I have also used that little threaded shaft on the other end of the motor - for attaching a drum sander kit, and even a chuck and router bit at times.

If you've got the room - for $100, why not? Then find a book by someone who likes the RAS to learn how to setup and use one correctly.

[John Keane]

First of all welcome to "The Creek". You made the smart move by asking the question. I bought a used RAS several years ago and use it for cross cutting long boards. Occasionally it has been used to cut dados. My woodworking teacher had one rule in regards to RAS and that is to never, never rip a board with an RAS. That said, and knowing what I know now I would buy a 12" DeWalt SCMS. I have a Hitachi 10", and it is a good one. Every contractor I see has DeWalt tools. If my RAS died I would not replace it. If your in SoCAl you can have it stand and all for $100.

[Art Mann]

From the photo, I believe i have that exact model, which I bought in the late 1970's. I seldom use it for the same reason others have mentioned. It is fickle to get it aligned and is easy to get knocked out of square. I have also used the previous model, wich has a round knob instead of a lever to lock the saw arm, and it is mechanically superior. I would like to have one of those. Ironically, that saw is not quite old enough to be desirable IMHO.

[Rick Thom]

That is indeed an Emerson-built Cman RAS circa '78 just like mine, but it lacks the safety upgrade. Wise decision IMHO to take a pass and look for a good miter saw as an alternative. I am sure that there are some good older RAS's and some good newer industrial units available for large $.. everything I have seen in between is marginalized by the alternatives now available.

[Gene Michael]

The picture of the one on the craigslist looks very much like the one I bought in 1975. Still have it and use it consistently for certain things. Cross cutting things that wont fit in the miter saw, cutting dados in cabinet frames, etc. If you take the time to set one up well, they are fairly accurate. If you buy the one you're looking at and it's in good shape, I'd be surprised if you aren't happy with it. A couple of things to ask about or check if you can do a hands on are: Are the rollers that slide the saw nice and tight? Do the bearings in the saw motor have excessive play? Good luck with your saw shopping.

[Frank McKinney]

To learn more about the radial arm saw, I recommend Mr. Sawdust's book:

http://mrsawdust.com/.

I owned a saw very similar to what you're looking at back in the early 80's when I first dabbled in woodworking and it was the only stationary power tool I had. I think the RAS is one of the most versatile tools around. It can do everything the SCMS can do and much more. Some can be tempermental as far as set up goes and the cheaper ones won't stay true for long.

As for "older" Craftsman, I don't think this one is old enough. I believe the older ones with the round arms made of cast iron will make a better choice. I looked one over this passed weekend. I might have bought it, but I have a line on an older DeWalt round arm model that Mr. Sawdust spoke so highly of...and for a price of $50.

Just my opinion,

Frank

[Tom Henderson2]

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post:). I am in the process of setting up my first woodworking shop on a limited budget. I have been checking Craigslist regularly for good deals. There is an: "10" Older Craftsman Radial Arm Saw Works Great Plus Extra Parts And Stand included. Do you think this is worth $100? What should I be looking out for? I have never owned a RAS so any advise would be welcome.

Here is the link: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/660562182.html

Thank you!

In my area, RAS similar to that are found almost every week. Prices range from absurdly high to extremely low. Assuming you can negotiate to something like $75, it seems like a fair price if it is in good shape.

I had that same saw for 25 years or so; it was great for carpentry, not so great for furniture. By that, I mean that in my hands it was not a very precise tool.

As many have mentioned, the alignment on those saws seems to come and go, and that is especially true if you are changing from cross-cut to rip etc.

Cut quality can be poor as well, especially on hard/tough wood. The RAS isn't nearly as rigid as a table saw, and when the cutting gets tough the cut quality suffers.

I'd suggest investing that $100 elsewhere -- in a better table saw, or in a good blade for your existing saw.

-TH

[David G Baker]

There was a recall on a Craftsman RAS several years ago but I do not remember the model. Sears will not stock replacement parts for the saw that was recalled. Do a Google search for the Craftsman saw that was recalled to make sure the one for sale isn't the one.
I have never owned a RAS but there has been many times when I wished that I did.

[Craig McCormick]

I had a Dewalt RAS for years. I got it as a Christmas gift when I was 14. I built most of our furniture on it. I traded it out for a table saw. I would have both if room permitted.

Craig McCormick

[Bob Slater]

I have a Dewalt/B&D RAS from the early seventies. It is well made and powerful, but I rarely use it, and am a little in fear of the damn thing. I bought it with the building and hope I get comfortable with it one day, as it is taking up some prime bench space. I love my Makita sliding CMS though.

[Thomas Herview]

That's the same saw I bought about 4 years ago. The saw is on recall from Sears. If you call them, you'll get a new table and new saftey guards for the saw that will make it look like new. I got the new stuff for it and it is still in the corner collecting dust.

[Louis Rucci]

You mean something like this one in New Smyrna Beach, FL.?
http://daytona.craigslist.org/tls/647538091.html.

Can you give me you opinion on this, as I'm thinking of adding a RAS in my workshop?

Thanks

[Steven Hardy]

FWIW, it's a mystery to me why the RAS has lost favor with woodworkers. I've used one for forty years and consider it right up there as the best $100 you can invest. If you can find an older Craftsman, DeWalt, Delta or Walker-Turner, for that price they are a worthwhile addtion to any shop.

A RAS does take some care to set up properly and get everything squared up. Once one of the good RASs is installed in a bench against a wall, it should stay in adjustment as long as you do.

As previously mentioned, there are many cuts the RAS makes better than any other saw. Worth mentioning here, European safety regs do not allow blind dadoes and rabbits on a table saw. Not safe to work where the blade is not visible. With a bit of instruction from someone who knows how and reasonably safety precautions, the RAS has the versatility to make most any cut.

The RAS is certainly a distant third for ripping. The band saw is by far the best; a table saw if you don't have a band saw, and the RAS if that's what you have. The RAS was the only stationary power tool I had back in the day and I built two houses with it. While it is certainly not the best tool for ripping, hundreds of board feet have gone through my old Craftsman.

It is always your tool, your decision, your money, but my old Craftsman RAS would never be cut up for scrap and a $100 bounty.

thnx, jack vines

Same here!! One hand in my pocket and the other on the saw handle when operating my craftsman RAS...ripping??no way!