Question for the oldest Creeker

[Leigh Betsch]

I would like to find the oldest Creeker. I have a question that I will only trust someone with wisdom to answer. "What finish would you use on curly cherry?" Anyone under 60 just sit back and listen. I'm still a pup at 50.

[David DeCristoforo]

Don't look at me.....

PS Age = Wisdom? Not always.....

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with David. The best finisher I know is a bit under 50.

I fit your desired age group but don't know that much about finishing.

Mike

[Larry Prince]

I would like to find the oldest Creeker. I have a question that I will only trust someone with wisdom to answer. "What finish would you use on curly cherry?" Anyone under 60 just sit back and listen. I'm still a pup at 50.

Wisdom? .....Well. I don't know about that but at 68yrs old I guess I qualify in the age category.

Anyway. I've had superlative results using a first coat of Watco Cherry Danish Oil, followed by several coats of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal. (shake the Watco up real good to get the color to mix right)

The oil will pop the grain and deepen the red color, while the Arm-R-Seal provides the protection of polyurethane without looking plastic-y.

In the end, using the oil may result in too much darkening but the oldest piece I have with this finish is only 2yrs so its too soon to tell.

I find 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal to be the minimum, with 6 being just about right. The stuff is dead easy to apply, just remember to get those rags out of the shop at the end of the session.

I'm doing a set of kitchen cabs right now that are white with cherry accents (door & drawer frames) and it looks very nice if I do say so myself. Not so much white that it should be in a hospital, but not so much dark that it sucks the light out of the room.

A couple of test pieces will quickly tell you if this method is to your taste.

[Bob Noles]

This sounds like a job for "HOWIE" :D:D:D

[Joe Chritz]

Wise man once told me "Wisdom comes from experience, which comes from bad judgment."

I should be just the man but alas I I can offer is BLO, waterlox or BLO, shellac, USL so I defer to the masters.

Joe

[Larry Fox]

Isn't Jeff Jewitt just a little over 50 - would you trust him to render advise here? :)

At 41 I am way under qualified in both your age and experience categories.

[Gene E Miller]

Greetings & Salutations,

I just barely qualify as I am just 61 and not sure just how wise
I am but here goes.

I am extremely partial to natural finishes and with cherry as
most know it will darken on its own with age.

I use Cell-A-Seal the about 5 or 6 coats of Arm-R-Seal
from General Finishes.

Using this brings out the natural beauty of the wood to me
and also makes the wood sparkle in my eyes with a nice
protective surface and then I just set back and admire and
usually find all of the little flaws in my work. :D:D

But with finishes everyone has their own favorite and this
just happens to be mine.

Gene

[Gary Lange]

Well I am 63 but I don't figure I would know anything as I am just starting on this stuff. I suspect that some of the younger Guys or Gals may be able to answer a woodworking question better then us old duffers.

[Bill Roland]

Well in some peoples eyes @ 64 I am old so I will give my opinion. I used the lightest shellac I could find and covered that with wax on this entertainment center and it turned out great in my old eyes. It darkened nicely over the the last 6 years.

[Craig D Peltier]

Maybe Leigh would find a better fit over at www oldwoodworkers com Seems to me that he/she thinks that age is wisdom not experience.

[David DeCristoforo]

Waal sonny... looks like you might want to broaden your scope a bit here hey? The "best" answer just might not come from the oldest geezer... hummm ...imagine that! So let me offer you MHO in spite of the fact that I am not the oldest creeker (as if that should make a difference). Whenever I need "the best" natural finish, I make up an oil/varnish mix. This finish has all of the "silky smooth" qualities of a fine oil finish combined with the toughness and durability of varnish. It can produce a "satin sheen" or a high polish depending on how it is applied. And it will make the wood figure explode. There a number of "recipes" and methods for this finish many of which can be found on the 'net. If anyone's interested, I would be happy to post my own version.

Oh and Craig I believe "oldgeezers.com" is a better site. Also check out "oldfarts.com"

Walter Brennan

[walter stellwagen]

I am 78 and a half and I agree --oil varnish.

Walt

[Per Swenson]

This is why I love SMC.

Not one indignant whipersnapper.

I attempted to wake my very own old geezer,

see if he could fathom a worthy answer in the depths

of his 84 years. OK 83.

He said, "Tell em I'll get back to him"

Then he said " You answer him"

Told him I couldn't.

So long story short....

As soon as he gets done auctioning all the neighborhood kid's balls

he found this week on the lawn, he will get right back to you.

Frankly I think he is just kidding.

Per

[Leigh Betsch]

Thanks for the input. My thoughts on asking the question the way I did was to just have some fun, and hear what has worked for over the long haul. With the way cherry changes over time I thought that someone that has been around a few years would know how their finish lasts. I fully understand that the "best" finisher is likey under 60 and the best answer might not even get posted but just asking "What's your best cherry finish" sounded kinda boring to me.

[Mike Henderson]

If you don't have to be an expert to answer this, I can try.

To me, the selection of the finish has more to do with the use of the item than with the underlying wood. For example, for a kitchen table top, I'd choose poly or catalyzed lacquer because it needs to stand up to adverse conditions. For a piece that's not going to get hard wear, like a chest of drawers, I'd choose lacquer because it gives good protection, can have a variety of shine levels and last well.

For a small item, like a turning, I'd use an oil-varnish finished with wax.

Mike

[Bill Wyko]

I would have said 5 coats of Minwax tung oil applied, wiped off, wait 24 hrs, steel wool and repeat. Then a couple coats of wax, but what do I know, I'm only 44 so disregaurd the previous statement.:D

[Brad Schmid]

This is why I love SMC.

Not one indignant whipersnapper.

I attempted to wake my very own old geezer,

see if he could fathom a worthy answer in the depths

of his 84 years. OK 83.

He said, "Tell em I'll get back to him"

Then he said " You answer him"

Told him I couldn't.

So long story short....

As soon as he gets done auctioning all the neighborhood kid's balls

he found this week on the lawn, he will get right back to you.

Frankly I think he is just busting mine.

Per

Haaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha:D you're crackin' me up:D:D:D
Thanks, I needed a good laugh after the day i had:D

[John Lucas]

I am second to Bob. At 71, I know almost everything. What was the question? Where did she go? Look in the back, are the tubes all glowing? What was the question? Where's my milk?

[Jim Becker]

Well, I'm only 51, but that curly cherry in my shop would get BLO, shellac and some form of top coat if it really needed it....or I'd just stick with the shellac. Same as the non curly cherry gets! How's that for a serious answer to a fun question? LOL

[Leigh Betsch]

I am second to Bob. At 71, I know almost everything. What was the question? Where did she go? Look in the back, are the tubes all glowing? What was the question? Where's my milk?

Now that's funny!

[Leigh Betsch]

How glossy will that shellac be? I've never used shellac. I was thinking lacquer over Danish oil, but I really don't know much about finishing. Jeez if I take your advise will I have to wait 9 more years to finish the bedroom set for the wife? Who made up this 60 and over rule anyway!?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Leigh...typically lacquer has a hard time sticking to oil base finishes. Most recommend using dewaxed shellac between any oil and lacquer. Dewaxed shellac will stick to anything and anything will stick to dewaxed shellac. That's probably why Jim uses shellac over BLO and then top coats it.

[Leigh Betsch]

Thanks Ken.

[jeremy levine]

I am second to Bob. At 71, I know almost everything. What was the question? Where did she go? Look in the back, are the tubes all glowing? What was the question? Where's my milk?

Good to see you back..

[Bob Swenson]

John Thanks for recognizing my antiquity.


As you know I was a waiter at the last supper.
What you didn’t know is that I apprenticed with
Antnee Stradivarius. Antnee let me rough out the
Fiddle necks but that’s about It. I would get the wood
From the shed on the roof, he never seemed to like
What I brought, It was Up and down, up and down.

Antnee was never happy.

When I finally asked him if I could smear the fiddles
He said, Necker (he called me necker) Yous gotta lotta to capisce, capisce.
He did let me stain them with gamboge, and then he would get his Chianti
And lock him self in his little room filled with dragon’s blood, sandarac and all that other stuff and schmear.
Up and down, “hey necker, necker”,got tired of that, time to move on.


I remember looking back. Seeing them hanging by their necks, swinging in the breeze.

Next I moved on to Rembrandt. That man knew how to schmear. Fat over lean he would yell, fat over lean. You BLO guys take note, if you put fat on first your finish will crack and alligator. A hard finish on a sea of jelly is an invitation to disaster. Maybe not tomorrow but some day down the road.
I ground a lot of pigment in those days, but that’s as close to a piece canvas as I ever got.
Remmy hung around the windmills; he was always trying to get the Milk Maids to come back and see his etchings. He had a stack of them. It never worked out.

I didn’t learn any thing about finishing until I started to hang out with the
Steinway boys. This is what they taught me.


Seal your wood with wax free shellac. You can make wax free shellac by filling a jar and letting it stand until the wax settles to the bottom Then decant it.
Fill the pores with filler. The filler should be the same color or slightly darker. Let dry for at least 24 hours. Take the time to learn about fillers and their proper application.
Sand smooth
Seal again
Sand
Seal
Varnish, your choice, if you are going to polish you must use a hard drying varnish. Six coats, sand between coats. If your piece is going to be exposed to the sun you will need an ultraviolet inhibitor in the varnish. (Marine Spar)
Polish. ---- I started with pumice and rotton stone but now I use Menzerna.
With care you will have a first class finish.

For some fine pieces of furniture or guitars you might consider French polish, but that is an other subject.


The ancient finisher and Necker
Bob

[John Lucas]

Bob,
Somehow I think you are holding a lot back. Come on, give.

[Bob Swenson]

John,
You are right, but I get exasperated reading some of these posts.

I use French Polish on guitars but to explain how to
do it is not easy for me.
Violins are the same using a differant spirit varnish.
Modern pianos use sprayed on Lacquer except the
sound board where they still use shellac
When restoring an old piano or fine furniture one should use rubbing varnish and the method I described above.
Behlen made a Varnish they called Four Hour Rubbing Varnish, It is no longer produced. Now I use their Rock Hard.
No where do they say to put BLO on under it.
Or any thing else in between coats
Read the label.
If you are a BLO freak stick with BLO. Cut the first coat with turpentine
And don't put varnish over it.
You will do a lot more good if you drink it.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/flaxseed-oil-000304.htm
Maybe you will live long enough to see your varnished over BLO
craze.
There is an old Chinese saying.
What does the summer bug know about snow.
What does the frog in the well know about the ocean.

Bob

[Leigh Betsch]

Seal your wood with wax free shellac. You can make wax free shellac by filling a jar and letting it stand until the wax settles to the bottom Then decant it.
Fill the pores with filler. The filler should be the same color or slightly darker. Let dry for at least 24 hours. Take the time to learn about fillers and their proper application.
Sand smooth
Seal again
Sand
Seal
Varnish, your choice, if you are going to polish you must use a hard drying varnish. Six coats, sand between coats. If your piece is going to be exposed to the sun you will need an ultraviolet inhibitor in the varnish. (Marine Spar)
Polish. ---- I started with pumice and rotton stone but now I use Menzerna.
With care you will have a first class finish.

For some fine pieces of furniture or guitars you might consider French polish, but that is an other subject.


The ancient finisher and Necker
Bob
Now this is the advice I was looking for. I don't know much about fiddles, flat tops and pianos but this sounds like good advice from someone that has seen a few things. Thanks a bunch.

[Leigh Betsch]

So I decided to follow Bob Swenson's advice but thought I should try a few test pieces first. The wife thinks the clear shellac alone is to light, the Ambur shellac too yellow, clear Danish oil about right, Cherry gel stain pretty good. I'm still in favor of Bob's advice, clear shellac top coated with varnish but I need to convince her that the cherry will get darker. So my question is How much darker can I expect the cherry to turn, and how long does it take to turn? Would Danish oil, top coated with clear shellac get real dark and loose the curly figure? If I put the piece in the sun for a while would it turn noticeably?

[Billy Chambless]

Don't look at me.....

PS Age = Wisdom? Not always.....


And as a well-known 67-year-old once wrote:

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now."

[Prashun Patel]

Oldest ain't always the best - especially when it comes to finishing. Machining techniques (sawing, shaping) haven't changed considerably in the past coupla decades. The advances have been mainly in power, safety, convenience, and features.

But finishing materials have radically changed over the decades and centuries. I will ALWAYS defer to the elder statesmen, but in finishing, the oldest technique usually isn't the best.

Flexner's book makes a good point of this.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

[Chris Weishaar]

If I put the piece in the sun for a while would it turn noticeably?

Yes it will turn quite a bit. Prior to finishing any cherry I try and leave it out in the sun for a couple of days. It can be tricky making sure each side gets equal sun. If you leave a board out after a few hours the topside will darken and the bottom side will remain light.

I don't have any experience with curly cherry and I am 20 years too young! The oldest piece of cherry furniture that I have is at least 15 years old and it is a cherry and maple bed frame. For that I sanded and scaped everything completely smooth and then just used pure tung oil. I waited quite some time for it to cure, and then polished it out with pumice and rottenstone. It looks great. It has darkened over time but this is one piece where I left everything outside for a couple of days to speed up the contrast between the maple and cherry.

As others have mentioned, some form of oil and varnish would look great. I just did walnut with BLO, dewaxed shellac and urethane and the depth of the grain is just amazing!

Chris

[Ernie Hobbs]

I'm not old enough to answer this question (only 35) but here's how I would do it:

1. analine dye to your color of choice
2. tung oil or antique oil finish
3. amber shellac, sprayed (mixed with denatured alcohol) in multiple very light coats and light sanding between coats
4. wax

Each step has a purpose- the dye gets the piece to a uniform color, the oil "pops" the finish, the shellac provides a little darkening and a durable finish, and the wax shines it up and protects your finish.

[Leigh Betsch]

Ok here is the final product. Not sure I followed anyones advice strictly. But I did settle on a no oil finish, didn't like the blotching and worried about the long term crazing. This is what I did. 2 coats EM8800 clear sanding sealer, 3 dye coats of USL tinted with Red/brown and Dark Walnut to get the color, then 10 coats of USL clear. Cut back and leveled several times and finally polished with Menzerna 1,2 3 compounds. Dead flat surface polished to a high shine finish. Absolutely no blotching, just deep shimmering rays. Looks like the wood itself is lighted from within, way cool. Too bad my photography doesn't show what it really looks like. This finish isn't for everyone, I spent 2 months getting the finish I wanted, stripped it multiple times, sanded through a couple of times. Bought 2 spray guns, 6 gallons of Target waterborne finish, sandpaper,polish compounds, and a drum sander so next time I can veneer the top and not have to plan for wood movement. But I now have a finish schedule that I plan to use a lot. The rails are black EM8000, top coated with black USL. I was thinking I should clear coat them with USL to seal them better and to make sure the black USL doesn't bleed into the clear USL on the cherry top but I ran out of clear USL so I jsut left it black USL with out a clear coat. Now I just have to make a couple of black knobs for the drawers.