Business Control

[Jorge Alanis]

Hello everyone,

I know most of you work on your own machines. Unfortunately I'm just starting and can't get off my current day job until I get some revenues from the laser business. Right now, I have an employee in charge but I was really concerned that the laser doesn't offer a counter or something to know the amount of work done. My concern is that my employee can do some laser jobs without "reporting" them. Especially jobs where the client takes the material to the shop (ipods, cellphones, etc). Have someone has a sort of way of controlling this? I know a POS and a "if you don't receive your ticket, the job will be free" won't make it work always...


Jorge Alanis

[Darren Null]

Webcam?

If there is a 'hours counter' on mine, I haven't found it. Your mileage may vary. What model do you have?

[Rodne Gold]

Do you have some reason to suspect your employee of theft?

[Dee Gallo]

Jorge, I just bought an hour meter which keeps track of the time you are running your laser. I have not hooked it up yet, but it's a simple small device you put in line between the on/off switch and the power. I was told you can get minute meters too, but I'm more concerned with knowing when to do maintenance and keeping track of hours I've run up. This one goes up to 9999 hours, but you can get bigger ones. If I burn that many hours on my laser, I'll be surprised! It cost me $40 with shipping and tax.

cheers, dee

[Joe Pelonio]

Jorge, I just bought an hour meter which keeps track of the time you are running your laser. I have not hooked it up yet, but it's a simple small device you put in line between the on/off switch and the power. I was told you can get minute meters too, but I'm more concerned with knowing when to do maintenance and keeping track of hours I've run up. This one goes up to 9999 hours, but you can get bigger ones. If I burn that many hours on my laser, I'll be surprised! It cost me $40 with shipping and tax.

cheers, dee
Sounds like that only keeps track of the time the laser power is on, not the actual fire time. I'm not sure that would be enough, if like here, the power is on most of the day whether something is running or not.

Jorge, You have good reason to be cautious. I had an employee who started her own business on the side using my equipment after hours.

The police and I decided not to press charges since it was impossible to determine the actual amount of the theft, so the D.A. would have been unable to get a conviction. It is unlawful for them to use your equipment
without permission and if that equipment has a "life" as in laser tube, is
could exceed the limit for petty theft and move up to grand theft.

At the very least, give two copies of the local/state laws to the employee,
along with a statement that you will prosecute if violated, and have them sign that they read and understand it. You might be best off installing a webcam on the machine that you can monitor from elsewhere or review later.

I'm still sort of bitter about this after 3 years if you can't tell.:mad:

[Darren Null]

Incidentally, if you look around the spy shops online, you can get webcams built into all sorts of innocuous things, like clocks etc; so the lack of trust won't be obvious.

[Mike Null]

My machine software lists every job and the time it took to run. All are numbered and I can go back to day one. It also lists the job by file name. In the case of an employee using the machine without permission they probably wouldn't use a job name in which case it would show as "graphic".

[Jorge Alanis]

Webcam?

If there is a 'hours counter' on mine, I haven't found it. Your mileage may vary. What model do you have?

I have a ULS 4.6, its funny because it has a minute counter and a job estimator on the print driver, but it only is informative in the moment of the job, it doesnt logs it. Maybe a "wish list" item for the folks at ULS...

I'll consider the concealed webcam... I also don't want my employees to be too pressured as I can watch every action they make.

[Jorge Alanis]

Do you have some reason to suspect your employee of theft?

Sadly, I had several cases before in my other business (a mini-mini-office depot), where they would report less color copies and even when the machines had counters, they argued that there were "printing errors" and they had to do them again or such. I wish people here in Mexico would be more respectful and honest. Here is like the old west. You have to take out the gun first (figuratively).

[Jorge Alanis]

My machine software lists every job and the time it took to run. All are numbered and I can go back to day one. It also lists the job by file name. In the case of an employee using the machine without permission they probably wouldn't use a job name in which case it would show as "graphic".

What machine do you have ? The ULS has a job history, but its useless as you can delete them selectively.

[Jorge Alanis]

Jorge, I just bought an hour meter which keeps track of the time you are running your laser. I have not hooked it up yet, but it's a simple small device you put in line between the on/off switch and the power. I was told you can get minute meters too, but I'm more concerned with knowing when to do maintenance and keeping track of hours I've run up. This one goes up to 9999 hours, but you can get bigger ones. If I burn that many hours on my laser, I'll be surprised! It cost me $40 with shipping and tax.

cheers, dee

Thanks a lot, it could be an option, not very exact, but an option anyway.

[Jorge Alanis]

Sounds like that only keeps track of the time the laser power is on, not the actual fire time. I'm not sure that would be enough, if like here, the power is on most of the day whether something is running or not.

Jorge, You have good reason to be cautious. I had an employee who started her own business on the side using my equipment after hours.

The police and I decided not to press charges since it was impossible to determine the actual amount of the theft, so the D.A. would have been unable to get a conviction. It is unlawful for them to use your equipment
without permission and if that equipment has a "life" as in laser tube, is
could exceed the limit for petty theft and move up to grand theft.

At the very least, give two copies of the local/state laws to the employee,
along with a statement that you will prosecute if violated, and have them sign that they read and understand it. You might be best off installing a webcam on the machine that you can monitor from elsewhere or review later.

I'm still sort of bitter about this after 3 years if you can't tell.:mad:

Joe I'm very sorry to hear that, I've been through this and its really awful when someone that has your trust is doing stuff like this. This is why I'm trying to devise methods to reduce all kinds of temptation over this...I only have 3 days with my machine, but I think its really important to have everything under control. I'm going to do some research on the "cyber-cafe" software that controls printing. As the ULS (and I think most machines) are shown as printers, maybe these programs can function in some way. I'll keep you informed.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm against the spy camera or webcam. That's a horrible way to start a relationship with an employee. You need to build a trust relationship with that person and part of that is you being crystal clear on your expectations. If you're clear, and treat them well, you should be in decent shape. I'd also tell them they can use the laser for personal things, but only with permission and explain that if you caught them using it for personal gain without your permission, it would certainly be cause for termination.

If I got a new job some place and found out they had a spy cam on me all the time, I'd quit.

[Craig Hogarth]

There's a number of employee spy software that tracks everything done on a computer, including keystrokes and print jobs. If you google for them, you should find several that offer free trials.

[Eric Fuller]

Keystroke logger would do the trick. Simple and effective.

[David Fairfield]

I'd just be happy that my employee wasn't surfing porn on the internet during work hours, the stuff got done and I was turning a profit. If he slips in a personal job once in awhile... eh. It keeps 'em happy.

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Yeah, but if those "personal" jobs are actually YOUR jobs that the employee is pocketing the cash for, that's no different than them taking cash right out of the register.

A keylogger is the best way... no video to fast forward through, cheap (free), and if installed correctly, invisible to everyone except those who know it's there. The problem is it may not tell you where mouse presses happened (though mouse loggers exist, too, so if you know where the "print" button always exists on the screen, you can track that, too.

Also, consider a sign at the front of the store that says "Every order will be accompanied by a receipt or 10% off your next order." Take the power out of the employee's hands to make a cute-rate deal, and give the customer a reason to want that receipt... if you have a receipt for all orders, it's more difficult for the employee to dip in the till.

[Mike Null]

Jorge

My machine is a Trotec with Job Control software.

My son-in-law operates an auto repair business in Germany. He can't take time off because his employees steal him blind. In some places that is the norm and you must take precautions to protect yourself.

The police are so business with other theft that his does not get any priority.

[Darren Null]

"Every order will be accompanied by a receipt or 10% off your next order."
How does the customer prove that the job was done in your shop without a receipt? Just a thought.

A keylogger is a much better idea than a webcam, thinking about it.

[Jorge Alanis]

Also, consider a sign at the front of the store that says "Every order will be accompanied by a receipt or 10% off your next order." Take the power out of the employee's hands to make a cute-rate deal, and give the customer a reason to want that receipt... if you have a receipt for all orders, it's more difficult for the employee to dip in the till.

This in theory should work but if the employee arranges with the customer for a discount, the client can go easily without a receipt. Lets say he offers half the price. He doesnt cares about the utility costs nor the laser weardown...pure profit! I know Im exaggerating a little...but you never know.

[Rodne Gold]

What you got to work out is that if the time and money spent on policing your employee is worth the bit he might steal , spending hours going thru logs etc might be less than cost effective.

A spycam and keylogger might well be illegal , it is over here where you have to make employees sign that they are aware they are being monitored. I would never work under those conditions personally.

I agree with those who say the only solution is to employ someone trustworthy. (your mom or dad would prolly be the best here - lol) and lay down ground rules.
Apart from that , look at what you pay , if you have lowballed the employee on pay , they will most likely supplement it.
There is no foolproof solution , whatever you implement , the employee will find a way around it if they are determined to do so.

[Dan Hintz]

Rodne, the expectation of privacy is a good point, but I wonder how well it would hold up if this machine was used strictly to control the laser (and not used for email, web surfing, etc.). Who would care about privacy on such a machine? The argument could always be made that a keylogger is a debugging tool on such a setup... if anything goes wrong with the print job, the exact sequence that caused it could be recalled.

Darren, here in the States, signs like these are seen from time to time (I'm trying to remember one large chain store that has such a sign, but the name escapes me at the moment). You could also place a sign below it that says "No receipt, no warranty"... a customer may think twice about entrusting their $400 iPod to someone without a receipt. Maybe "work order" is a better description here as they're typically given to the customer before work begins. In a small fashion, you're leading customers to expect a certain level of quality assuredness and guarantee, as well as leading the employee to give them that guarantee. It's not fool-proof, and any employee hard-pressed enough will find a way around the system for bigger orders (friends who don't care about a guarantee, etc.), but most of the time we're trying to prevent them from robbing us blind, not totally prevent all theft.

[Stephen Beckham]

Jorge,

Are you familiar with the Microsoft Managment Console? Okay - first I should ask if you are running MS XP or not.

It's fairly simple to use - challenging to set up. It's part of Windows (has been since Win NT & Win 2K). It allows you to set up counters and real time monitoring as you desire. It resets each time the computer is shut down and started back up.

I played with it last night to set up a counter - it now counts every job sent to the printer on a daily basis. Nothing fancy - it will just count how many jobs total. If your employee says he/she sold 15 jobs and there's 18 in the queue - then it's likely he/she had to re-print some. If there's 45 in there, Hmmm....

It's nothing special you have to download or anything - there's no money involved - just several step by step pointers (PM's !?!?) we'll need to walk through... Interested - give me a shout...

[Darren Null]

Maybe it would be best to allow private jobs...but under pre-agreed rules. A customer walking into your shop...that's yours whatever, because it's your machine, you're paying for the shop and utilities etc.

I personally can't see much harm in burning birthday bits or iPods etc for mates in gaps between real jobs provided that:

a) There is no impact whatsoever on the 'real' work (jobs longer than -say- 20 minutes burn time are done after hours)
b) The jobs are one-offs. Make it clear that for multiple items you would expect a commission, at least.
c) Shop materials are off-limits, or can be bought for -say- cost (including delivery!) + 10% PROVIDED that there is enough available to not run short for proper jobs.
d) The contact was made outside of work.

There may be more, but those are the initial thoughts.

Having a more flexible regime like this may well work for you too. Your employee is doing some of your selling for you...free and on his own time...and you never know where that might lead. OK, you'll probably have to pay your employee commission if he scores a large job on his own time, but it's a job you probably wouldn't have otherwise. Also, if your employee is making a few quid with private jobs, he'll be more motivated to keep his job.

Every employee is there primarily for the money. If the employee can 'value add' to that job using his/her initiative and without impacting your business in any way then I can't see the harm, and I can see possible benefits.

Your laser (the most expensive bit of kit) is losing gas at a constant rate whether it's firing or not. Wear and tear on the moving bits is not trivial, but can be factored into whatever agreement you come up with.

That's the way I'd do things; but I'm a bit of a hippy. I'd still have the keylogger as a double check though. How tech-savvy is your employee? The first thing I do if I have to use a new computer is check for keyloggers and other nasties (some internet cafes use them, and there has been cases of internet cafes phishing for credit card details and the like). There's suites of portable apps that run from a USB key for detecting and turning off these things.

[Joe Pelonio]

Maybe it would be best to allow private jobs...but under pre-agreed rules. A customer walking into your shop...that's yours whatever, because it's your machine, you're paying for the shop and utilities etc.

I personally can't see much harm in burning birthday bits or iPods etc for mates in gaps between real jobs provided that:

a) There is no impact whatsoever on the 'real' work (jobs longer than -say- 20 minutes burn time are done after hours)
b) The jobs are one-offs. Make it clear that for multiple items you would expect a commission, at least.
c) Shop materials are off-limits, or can be bought for -say- cost (including delivery!) + 10% PROVIDED that there is enough available to not run short for proper jobs.
d) The contact was made outside of work.


This is how it started with me. Eventually she was making things and selling them at a weekly craft fair. Also, was buying from my suppliers (wholesale=no tax) and paid cash but told them it was for me.
This was a trusted employee of two years with an otherwise spotless record.

[Stephen Beckham]

Joe - my biggest concern would have been as the owner - you were on the line for tax fraud from within your business. That's a whole lot bigger ballgame than stealing laser minutes.

It is as simple as Darren mentions - simple family things are cool and fun and neat and may lead to other purchases. But it is the Devil's egg planted in the mind that leads to the situation you had to deal with.

Makes me scared to expand to the point where I'll need a employee... These things are seen as toys - not as manufacturing tools. Yea - anyone smarter than a 5th grader could figure out how to hit the green button - but as a hobby that's okay - as a business where you quarterly sign your John Hancock to tell Uncle Sugar and State GOV that you're up-n-up will put you in jail if they are doing as your employee took upon herself to do...

Glad to hear you came out of it with just a hurt ego and sour taste - versus spending time in front of a Tax Judge somewhere defending your honor...

[Mark Winlund]

It is a slippery slope... I have had it happen to me several times. The employee "borrows" some money from the cash box... "for some lunch, as I'm short". Pretty soon, it's the rent that he (or she) is short on. Then, my computers and internet access get used for personal business... during working hours. Viruses accumulate from the porn sites they are surfing, not to mention the lost time I am paying them when they are not working.

In the case of using the equipment, I have had employees work all night making stuff for their friends (and collecting for it). When I caught them at it, I was the bad guy for not paying them enough during the day!

Come on, folks.... stealing is stealing, whether it is time or money or customers. Those of you who apologise for it and say it is just another cost of doing business have their heads in the sand. If your employees want to be in the engraving business, let them take the risks you have.... borrow the money, quit their jobs, and work 12 hours a day to make it fly. After a few years, perhaps they will make enough money to hire an employee. Ask them then if it's OK for me (the new employee) to use their hard won equipment to make money on the side for myself.

I have been down this road many times. If you tolerate dishonesty, you will pay the price. Your business will fall apart. It is a very corrosive process.

After this happened enough times (along with the loss of profits and business), it became a policy to fire anyone who steals. Period.

If one of my employees wanted to start their own business, they had my blessings. Even if they tried to take my good clients. If I couldn't retain them, I must be doing something wrong. It rarely (almost never) worked for them. Usually they had the idea that if they just bought a particular piece of equipment, they would have instant riches heaped upon them. As most of the people on this forum know, it doesn't work that way.

Mark

[Darren Null]

You guys are sounding a bit Homeland Security. They burned a mate's iPod on MY time with MY machine- they must be TEH TERRORISTS!

The world view is totally different from the point of view of an employer and an employee. You see it as theft, they see it as perks. An acceptable compromise can be reached to give the employee an agreed-upon amount of personal latitude without harming your business. If the employee is trustworthy it won't be a problem and will be seen as another reason why you're a good boss; if the employee isn't trustworthy then it's going to happen anyway and the best thing to do is to catch them at it and fire them as soon as possible.

Eventually she was making things and selling them at a weekly craft fair.
Without your permission? Instant fire.

Also, was buying from my suppliers (wholesale=no tax) and paid cash but told them it was for me.
Did she know that she was setting you up for a reaming from the tax people? She might not have thought it through that far. It might have been "cheap here, expensive there...let's go for cheap".

I have had employees work all night making stuff for their friends
Knowingly taking the mickey. Pink slip.

The employee "borrows" some money from the cash box... "for some lunch, as I'm short".
Without asking? Pink slip. That is definitely a fast access to a slippery slope.

I've been stitched up rightously by employees in the past: you have to hope for the best and plan for the worst. Also, your monitoring must be tight enough that you can catch and deal with problems as they develop...they never get better with time.

It's sort of academic for me, because there's no bloody way I would have a lot of cash sunk into a business startup relying on one unsupervised employee of doubtful provenance. If you have to ask the question at the top of the thread, then you shouldn't be in that position. Hang your knackers out with a "Kick Me" sign on...it'll be cheaper, take less time, and will probably be less painful in the long run. There's plenty of ways to mess up a business startup with YOU running it, without quadrupling the risk factor. At least.

But having said that, there should be some provision for employee playtime on the machine. If the employee is a bad'un, it'll show up faster, and if the employee is a good'un it'll keep them happy, may add revenue to your business in the long run, and they'll almost certainly think of things that haven't occurred to you.
Provided that you and the employee know exactly what is, and isn't, acceptable; then neither of you are going to be surprised

If your employees want to be in the engraving business, let them take the risks you have.... borrow the money, quit their jobs, and work 12 hours a day to make it fly.
If they had the time/courage/credit rating to do that they wouldn't be employees.

[Joe Pelonio]

You guys are sounding a bit Homeland Security.

Without your permission? Instant fire.

Did she know that she was setting you up for a reaming from the tax people? She might not have thought it through that far. It might have been "cheap here, expensive there...let's go for cheap".


Firing was the penalty.

As for tax, I checked and found that my supplier was at risk as they are the ones who didn't collect tax, not me (and very angry when they found out).

The police said national data shows that 70% of all employees steal in one form or another, and that 80% of all business failures are due to employee theft taking them down.

[David Fairfield]

Yep, there is the ideal world and the real world.

In the real world, employees are just gonna take post it notes and pens and use company equipment for what is known in lawyer terms as a frolic and detour.

Rodne was right on target with the bottom line approach. You can police and enforce, but there is a price to pay. Fighting human nature is no easy battle.

If work gets done, profits are coming in, and the employee is lasering "happy valentines day" on Hershey bars for his girlfriend behind your back, you've reached a satisfactory equilibrium.

Personally, I'd bring it out in the open and tell him you can use the machine between jobs, but first you gotta get the company work done.

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Another possibility, combining some previous ideas... what about a designated "employee time". Set aside a one or two hour block each week where employees are allowed to do their own stuff (side jobs) at a significantly reduced rate (essentially cost + a few percent). This way, the employee knows from the get-go anything personal done outside of that time period is a definite no-no. They get to play with the machine and try new ideas, maybe make some cash on the side, and you get the benefits of knowing they'll be happier, are increasing their knowledge base, and any extra wear and tear is measurable. You can also sweeten the pot and tell them they'll get a commission for every sale they bring in during normal operating hours by way of their experiments... incentive to try new ideas and look for new clients. The new clients are typically going to be jobs too large to run during their "employee time" block.

[David Fairfield]

I like your idea, Dan. You know the employee is going to be doing it no matter what, might as well make it work to mutual advantage. Why be a Scrooge when you can be a Fezziwig? :D

[Doug Griffith]

I'm not sure this is possible on a PC (I'm on a Mac) but how about monitoring the directory that temporary print files are kept, rename and save a duplicate version in another directory that is password protected. Or just log when the print took place.

A quick search came up with http://www.filetransit.com/view.php?id=13518 & http://support.microsoft.com/kb/92635.

Just an idea.

[Bill Cunningham]

I've been a one man band for 20 years now. No employees ever.. Mostly because I have difficulty delegating responsibility. Even my wife won't work for me in the shop, because she knows I'm a perfectionist, and would always be looking over her shoulder. .I can't help it.. Besides, in Ontario I would not only have to pay the employee at least $8.75 hr(minimum wage for just being there), + vacation pay, the employers portion of the government employment insurance and the Canada pension plan. The guy would probably end up taking home more money every week than I do.. Employees just don't understand or really even care about the 'Feast or Famine' aspect of being self employed.

Cratchet!!! stay away from that coal bucket!!:mad:

[Barbara Buhse]

I don't have this problem because I have no employees, but I work part time opening accounts and writing loans in a bank, and there is a camera on me at all times, and i know it. I don't have a problem with it because its disclosed. I do understand why there would be a trust issue with this though. On the other hand, suppose you were to aim the camera at just the engraver? Don't hide it from the employee, make it obvious. The camera does not have to cover the entire shop. This also cuts down on the awkwardness of the employees friends coming in and asking for "favors" because he/she can point out the camera and say no.

[Dee Gallo]

If you pointed a camera at the laser itself, it would also provide a way to monitor it via computer while you're not in the shop (on weekends, vacation, etc.) so it could be considered an insurance/security issue, something an employee would not consider odd if you show them how particular you are about the machine that IS your business.

The recordings you get would warn you about theft, break-in, fire or any freak thing that might happen to your shop, which would be helpful in case you need to file a claim.

Just a thought, dee

[David Fairfield]

Actually Dee, thats not a bad idea. I'm a one man operation but since my workstation is around the corner from the laser, a cheap video cam would let me keep an eye on it while its operating, and work at the computer at the same time.

The label on the front cover does say "fire risk - do not operate unattended." That's all you'd need explain to an employee. But I still say giving an employee some leeway to do personal jobs is the best policy.

Dave

[Dee Gallo]

You're right, Dave, it does say that... and we all follow that rule ALL the time, right? A lot of us are "one-man operations" and we can't all stand and stare at the laser every second it's burning. It was fascinating the first month...

Seems like a lot of good suggestions here for Jorge, hopefully he can come up with a workable plan that doesn't make him out a tyrant or a sucker. For me, I guess I'll stay owner-operator and hope I can trust myself!