"Deer, me!"

[Jim Becker]

So I'm sitting in the Great Room last night enjoying an HD broadcast of an "accoutic" Bon Jovi concert (in full surround sound, no less...awesome) when a fellow swerves a small truck to avoid a deer. 'Took out 75' of our split rail fence, our mailbox, a bluebird house (unoccupied, fortunately) and some of the bark off of a large white ash tree at the base of our drive. I didn't hear a thing... :D ...but noticed all the flashing lights not long after it happened.

We needed a new fence, anyway, but this wasn't what we had envisioned for the "demolition". Sheesh! I'm hoping that the tree will be ok as it would be a shame to loose it. Despite the way it constrains the view of traffic from the end of the drive, it's a lovely tree that offers some nice shade to the property when the hot summer sun is moving towards the west late in the afternoon. As soon as we have the police report, we'll have to get an arborist in to check it out.

This is the fourth accident in front of the house in the last year after over three without any incident.

[Lee Schierer]

The sad part is that when the guy talks to his insurance agent, he's going to find out that it would have been cheaper to have hit the deer. Now it will go against his collision coverage and his rates will go up. If he'd hit the deer it would have been covered under comprehensive.

If you can't stop, don't swerve to miss a deer if you are going to go off the road or hit something else.

[Jim Becker]

The sad part is that when the guy talks to his insurance agent, he's going to find out that it would have been cheaper to have hit the deer. Now it will go against his collision coverage and his rates will go up. If he'd hit the deer it would have been covered under comprehensive.

If you can't stop, don't swerve to miss a deer if you are going to go off the road or hit something else.

All very true, although for this driver, it's going to count even more against his employer's insurance! The officer I spoke with last night said that of the 800-900 accidents in the township each year (!), a very large percentage are deer-related. There are so many here, that they will practically walk up to you...and just don't understand the concept that moving vehicles are much harder and heavier than they are. I'd estimate that at least a dozen have been hit within 2000 yards of here in the past 6 months alone.

[Paul Downes]

We have similar problems in Michigan. I do my best each fall to lower the insurance rates. I've got venison and caribou going in the crock pot right now at work. I had a rather dissapointing year, we only managed to put 3 deer in the freezer. Guess I was just too busy. Just last week I counted over 75 deer within 1 mile of where I hunted last fall. Guess I better step up!

[Ken Garlock]

Jim, surely you know the "deer in the headlight" scenario. I have seen film clips from game wardens that have arrested "sportsmen" hunting deer at night with powerful spotlights. That is about the same as going fishing with a stick of dynamite :(

[Jim Becker]

Jim, surely you know the "deer in the headlight" scenario. I have seen film clips from game wardens that have arrested "sportsmen" hunting deer at night with powerful spotlights. That is about the same as going fishing with a stick of dynamite

Yes, I know about that...grew up in the "real" country up in northeast PA and had a few neighbors who, shall we say, felt that the game laws were for other folks. But I don't remember any of them using a 14' box truck as a weapon!

[John Weber]

Wow, hopefully the tree will survive, but if not I'm sure you will put it to good use. Sorry about the fence.

John

[Ken Garlock]

Well Jim, I hope you fill out a detailed report outlining your Teak fence with the Ebony inlays. :D :D

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Jim,

I hope the guy wasn't hurt, other than losing his job that is. I can't believe that the insurance companies haven't lobied for laws that encourage hunting from vehicles. Like if you can see the deer from the road you can shoot it regaurdless of the time of year. The proper term for using a spot light for those damaging critters is "alternative season hunting." Ask anyone that is still farming about crop damage as their neaghboring farms have become subdivisions. Deer find several ornamental quite tasty too though.

Anyone that think deer are cute haven't hit one or suffered from their eating habts.

Sorry this was so long.

[Jim Becker]

I hope the guy wasn't hurt, other than losing his job that is.

If he worked for me, he wouldn't be fired. Very few people have the ability to resist the natural inclination to try and avoid hitting something like a deer, even though it's certainly true that hitting the animal is better than hitting on-coming traffic, etc. It was an accident plain and simple. The fellow was alert, wearing a seat belt and responsible about the situation. It was clear that the police felt the same way about him.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea about folks being able to go after these creatures from their cars; not in defense of the animals, but out of concern for other consequences. Out in the country where such activity would be away from most human populations, it might work out, but in a semi-rual, suburban setting...sheesh! The real problem, aside from population growth of the herds going unchecked, is land development. Too much farmland and forest is being turned into sub-divisions and most states' laws are pro-developer. Localities cannot combat this in any way effectively outside of buying up the land themselves for open space or hoping that the various organizations like the Nature Conservancy and Heritage Foundation can get easements, etc., that lock the land away from the developers in purpetuity. This is a big issue in the area where I live...there are about 500+ homes up or in progress within 2 miles of our property. And they are on 1/2 acre or smaller lots instead of th 3-10 acre plots I'd much prefer to see. The net result is that the animals live in our back yards where they can't be hunted safely, where they enjoy our hostas and other plants and where they play dodge-the-vehicle nightly on the busy roads in front of our homes.

I'm not sure what the right solution will be...or if there even is a right solution!

[James Carmichael]

If he worked for me, he wouldn't be fired. Very few people have the ability to resist the natural inclination to try and avoid hitting something like a deer, even though it's certainly true that hitting the animal is better than hitting on-coming traffic, etc. It was an accident plain and simple. The fellow was alert, wearing a seat belt and responsible about the situation. It was clear that the police felt the same way about him.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea about folks being able to go after these creatures from their cars; not in defense of the animals, but out of concern for other consequences. Out in the country where such activity would be away from most human populations, it might work out, but in a semi-rual, suburban setting...sheesh! The real problem, aside from population growth of the herds going unchecked, is land development. Too much farmland and forest is being turned into sub-divisions and most states' laws are pro-developer. Localities cannot combat this in any way effectively outside of buying up the land themselves for open space or hoping that the various organizations like the Nature Conservancy and Heritage Foundation can get easements, etc., that lock the land away from the developers in purpetuity. This is a big issue in the area where I live...there are about 500+ homes up or in progress within 2 miles of our property. And they are on 1/2 acre or smaller lots instead of th 3-10 acre plots I'd much prefer to see. The net result is that the animals live in our back yards where they can't be hunted safely, where they enjoy our hostas and other plants and where they play dodge-the-vehicle nightly on the busy roads in front of our homes.

I'm not sure what the right solution will be...or if there even is a right solution!

You are right about suburban expansion, Jim.

Not to sound like an enviro-wacko, my white collar barely covers up my red-neck, but this is what happesn as people flee to the countryside, clashes between people and wildlife. I've been an avid hunter most of my life and the idea of folks shooting game from public roads is scary. It is strictly illegal down and in fact one of the more effective ways game wardens combat poaching is setting up a sting with a fake deer close to a road and waiting for a fool to stop and shoot it. It's been quite productive!

I'm on the western edge of the D/FW metroplex and my yuppie neighbors freak at the deer in the roads, coyotes howling, rattlesnakes on the back porch and wild turkeys roosting on their Lexus. I always say where I come from, we shoot em & eat em (except for the coyotes).

I get depressed at the number of houses going up around the family ranch (60-miles West of Fort Worth), I was planning to retire out there, but now looks like it'll be too crowded for me. Plus my yuppie brother and his friends have invaded with their ATVs, which make my skin crawl.

[Chris Padilla]

Population growth...population growth. You'll find a commonality to most problems in our society stem from...care to take a guess?

[Lee Schierer]

Invite a bow hunter to your area. They are very quiet and pretty efficient at getting the deer population down without endangering anyone in the vicinity. Your neighbors won't even know he's there.

Sub divisions that post against hunting are asking for more and bigger problems in the future that someone seeing an animal die. Too many deer = starvation & disease for deer and humans + environmental damage.

[Chris Padilla]

So, do we need more coyotes and wolves? Those are deer's natural cullers!

[Dennis Peacock]

Well Jim....

I'd hafta say that THAT is the hardest way to remodel the lawn, fence and give a tree that sick feeling.!!!! I hope it all works out and the tree survives.

[Kurt Aebi]

Chris,

The problem with Coyotes and Wolves will soon be that domestic animals will become way too easy a prey for them and they will avoid deer as they will be more difficult to get than the domestic animals. Take for instance the bright idea that someone up here in New England had to cull the overpopulation of Porcupines - introduce a natural predator - the Fisher Cat! Well low and behold, people around here are losing cats and dogs left and right and the Porky's continue to expand pretty much unchecked.

I agree there is no easy solution to the deer overpopulation problem, but there has to be a happy medium. Bow hunting is an option, but there are still too many accidents that can happen for that to be the best solution. Also, not too many people in town like to see an animal bleeding to death all over their lawn. In my neighborhood, the neigbors have no problem with me shooting a deer with a bow and have it die on their lawn as long as I clean it elsewhere (I would never think of cleaning it in town anyway) and clean up any blood pools that there would be (I use a 5 gal. bucket of sudsy clorox water for this). I will only shoot on my property, but you can't prevent the wounded animal from venturing onto others' properties.

I am afraid that as long as urban sprawl and people keeping hunters from being able to hunt on the ground that could be hunted has I'm afraid made this problem escelate to a point where there is no longer an easy or cheap solution.

Oh well Off the Soapbox and back to woodworking!

[Jim Becker]

Population growth...population growth. You'll find a commonality to most problems in our society stem from...care to take a guess?

Too much sex?? Sorry, we'll just have to live with that particular problem! Woodworking can only go so far for our collective and individual mental health...:cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Sex? Sex is fine...it is the sometimes resulting pregnancy (purpose or accident) that occurs from said act. :D

[Jim Becker]

Sex? Sex is fine...it is the sometimes resulting pregnancy (purpose or accident) that occurs from said act.

I was only making small humor and didn't want to go any farther...

[Chris Padilla]

I know...I gave you a little :D at the end! Hey, it's Friday...I'm as happy as a clam! :D

[Jim Becker]

Hey, it's Friday...I'm as happy as a clam!

Yup...that's a nice thing. And my weekend is going to start not long from now when I get off this conference call and complete my mid-year review. Then, I may brave the rain for a few minutes as PenDOT just cut down a large tree of some sort about a thousand feet down the road and the bowls contained within it are calling out to me...:D

[Paul Downes]

So, do we need more coyotes and wolves? Those are deer's natural cullers!

Not if you plan on keeping kitty or fido around. For coyotes cats are a delectible treat. I know of some den sites where 25+ dog and cat collars have been found. I wonder how many weren't wearing anything but their fur? I personally think it might be a good idea to allow hunting for deer in the 'off season' and give the meat to food banks and such.

[Dennis Peacock]

MAN!!!!

Ya'll have switched from talking about <i>DEER</i> to <B>"DEAR"</B>!!

What a switch.!!!!! Gonna hafta send you boys home for some needed R&R...!!!! Oh...and a little sawdust making as well. ;)

[Jim Becker]

Ya'll have switched from talking about DEER to "DEAR"!!

Dr. SWMBO would certainly say that this is normal behavior for the male of the species...and scientists never lie about such statistics, especially epidemiologists who routinely study large populations...which we males of the species happen to be.

[Chris Padilla]

Not if you plan on keeping kitty or fido around. For coyotes cats are a delectible treat. I know of some den sites where 25+ dog and cat collars have been found. I wonder how many weren't wearing anything but their fur? I personally think it might be a good idea to allow hunting for deer in the 'off season' and give the meat to food banks and such.

I hear you but we keep pushing further and further into their territory...where does it stop? The reason the deer herds are so big is because they have no natural predators anymore. The balance of nature is a wonderful thing...something we have been unable to match....

I am not a hunter and have no special feelings about hunting. In this case, it sounds like the most deermane (humane) thing to do is to cull the herd with bullets and arrows.

I had some red deer meat in a fancy-schmancy French restaurant once and it was, by far, the tastiest meat I have ever sunk my teeth into. I was shocked and impressed.

[Jim Becker]

I had some red deer meat in a fancy-schmancy French restaurant once and it was, by far, the tastiest meat I have ever sunk my teeth into. I was shocked and impressed.
I too, am not a hunter...never enjoyed it when I was a teenager and never went back to it. However, venison is very, very good when prepared right. I've been noticing it on menus a little more often these days. Perhaps some of those herds can be reduced by putting deer in our own food chain more often.

[Bob Hayles]

All very true, although for this driver, it's going to count even more against his employer's insurance! The officer I spoke with last night said that of the 800-900 accidents in the township each year (!), a very large percentage are deer-related. There are so many here, that they will practically walk up to you...and just don't understand the concept that moving vehicles are much harder and heavier than they are. I'd estimate that at least a dozen have been hit within 2000 yards of here in the past 6 months alone.


Sounds like a full freezer with minimal effort to me...

BubbaBob