Cabinet Screwdriver with Phillips Tip

[Gary Curtis]

Why is it that no-one, not even Lie Nielsen, sells a Phillips head English style cabinet screwdriver? Not even Axminster over in England.

I just missed the bidding on two that came up on eBay today.

Aren't phillips screws used in cabinet-making??

Gary Curtis:)

[Johnny Kleso]

My understanding of a Cabinet point is that it is the same with as the shank and a standard point is wider than the shank..

I have never seen a Philip's with a point wider than the shank size..

I may be wrong, am I missing something???

I just re-read you post and I am guessing your talking about wood handled screwdrivers???

In the old days maybe 50 years back there was no philips points and I have no idear why they dont make them but for that fact I use most square drive screws myself now :)

[mike holden]

The reason may be that Phillips head screws were developed to be self-limiting on torque. That is, they slip out of contact when the design torque is reached. They were developed for sheet metal screws used on automotive production lines.
Wood screws are capable of withstanding large amounts of toque and therefore need a drive system that can deliver that torque.
Just an aside, Phillips and Reed-Prince are not the same although the drivers are often used interchangeably, same with square drive and Robertson - not quite the same.

But having said all that, I too would like a set of Phillips head drivers with the "cabinet makers" handles. Closest I was able to come was a British source that had the proper shape, but in colored plastic!

Mike

[David Tiell]

Has anybody sent a request of suggestion in to LN and others? Maybe if there was enough interest expressed....

That being said, I have a set of cabinet screwdrivers that includes 2 phillips heads, a #1 and a #2. I believe they were made by AMT. Not the best quality, but they do work. Not sure if they are even available any more, as I have had them for close to 15-20 years.

[Gary Curtis]

I'll take your suggestion Mike. Maybe Phillips-head screws aren't the best for woodworking solutions.

I'm at the end of my shop purchases and this was one tool I just didn't have. I've got a great set of Footprint cabinet drivers. The mail order places in England just don't have Phillips drivers in Cabinet style. Maybe that is telling me something.

And to think two of them came up for bidding on eBay this week. First ones I've seen in over 18 months of checking.

Lie Nielsen does make a beautiful driver with a hex-socket and 8 assorted tips, one of which is an Allen. For $45.


Gary Curtis

[Bob Glenn]

The reason may be that Phillips head screws were developed to be self-limiting on torque. That is, they slip out of contact when the design torque is reached. They were developed for sheet metal screws used on automotive production lines.
Wood screws are capable of withstanding large amounts of toque and therefore need a drive system that can deliver that torque.
Just an aside, Phillips and Reed-Prince are not the same although the drivers are often used interchangeably, same with square drive and Robertson - not quite the same.

But having said all that, I too would like a set of Phillips head drivers with the "cabinet makers" handles. Closest I was able to come was a British source that had the proper shape, but in colored plastic!

Mike


KUDO's Mike, I thought I was the only one that knew about Reed-prince.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Why is it that no-one, not even Lie Nielsen, sells a Phillips head English style cabinet screwdriver? Not even Axminster over in England.

Maybe because no one can compete with those multi tool screw driver like what Kline and Buck makes. I have abandoned all my Phillips drivers in favor of the multi tools. Even my Snap On drivers sit unloved. And then there are all the thousands of really good Phillips bits that you can shove in a drill one way or another.

I'd guess that no one can compete in that market.

[Derek Cohen]

I, too, have looked for Philips drivers to match my cabinet screwdrivers ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Screwdrivers/ScrewdriversWC.jpg

Looked in vain, alas ..

So I have tended to use Philips bits in Yankee #31 and #35s.

Recently I decided to make a screwdriver as part of a driver set (entered in the WC tool competition). Here is the brace/driver set ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/competition%20brace/1Covershot1.jpg

... and a close up of the driver ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/competition%20brace/Screwdriver.jpg

The reason for showing the brace is that the design of the driver was intended to compliment it. Otherwise you can design anything you like. Here the bits are held in with a spring-loaded snap-on mechanism. This provided a very solid connection.

In use I loved this screwdriver. The handle is short and fits into the palm really well. I gave this one away, so I now will make another.

More driver bits in the drawer ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/competition%20brace/2Completedtoolbox5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Joe McMahon]

I have a set of the Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers and they are excellent for planes. Being a job specific set, they excel at what they were designed to do but are not really adaptable to cabinet work. I would love it if LN would produce a set of cabinet maker's screwdrivers including philips head drivers.

[Mike Henderson]

Derek - very nice work. Where did you get the hardware for attaching the bits? And how did you make the bearing at the top of the brace?

Also, is that case made of QS oak? Or what?

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Mike.

The hardware for the bits were simply snap-on type connectors. The ones I found were black anodised steel. I wire brushed them to the steel. They were simply epoxied in.

The bearing at the top of the brace is a sore point. I made it out of steel tubing.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/competition%20brace/2.jpg

It worked pretty well. However, at the last minute I became concerned that it may not be strong enough or might not move smoothy enough (the judges were to put it through its paces), so I epoxied it together. Big mistake. I got marked down significantly for that.

The main box wood is She-oak (also known in the USA as Australian Lacewood). The lid raised panel and the tools are made from Jarrah.

Here are a few detail features. I tried for a theme around the pommel, so the drawer handle, the wooden hinges, and - of course - the screwdriver all have similar profiles ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/competition%20brace/4Details.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Martino]

Not sure if these qualify as cabinet drivers (and nowhere near as pretty as Derek's...), but I've had these in slot and Phillips from Lee Valley for several years and like them a lot. I'll add the square drives at some point. Triangular wood handles are comfortable, hardened tips work well, metal striking cap protects the handle:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32208&cat=1,43411,43417&ap=1

[Gary Curtis]

Those are nice drivers and probably what I'll end up. But in my original post I was referring to London-pattern cabinet drivers ------ the ones with a 'lollipop' handle.

My complete set have Beech handles are made by Footprint. The ones that I missed on eBay looked identical, judging from the photos.

I just thought a few cabinet-making applications, such as mounting hinges, would be amenable to phillips head screws.

Gary

[skip coyne]

Maybe because no one can compete with those multi tool screw driver like what Kline and Buck makes. I have abandoned all my Phillips drivers in favor of the multi tools. Even my Snap On drivers sit unloved. And then there are all the thousands of really good Phillips bits that you can shove in a drill one way or another.

I'd guess that no one can compete in that market.

I agree I carry a couple of the klein that are my primary drivers

Occasionally though I run into a situation where the shaft is to fat to reach into a recess

then the cabinet drivers come into play

[Joe McMahon]

I wrote Lie-Nielsen hoping they might consider making these screwdrivers. Deneb replied:

Joe,

I will never say never, but they would probably have to be priced a bit higher than the set we make now. We basically absorb the cost on the set we make now as they are intended for our tools. We have had several other similar requests, so it is definitely a possibility.

Thank you,

Deneb

joe wrote:
I have a set of your excellent screwdrivers, and they are excellent for planes. Being a job specific set, they excel at what they were designed to do but are not really adaptable to cabinet work. I am a cabinet maker and really appreciate the grip and feel of cabinet maker's screwdrivers. Except for several English sets, these screwdrivers are no longer available. No one makes philips tipped cabinet maker's screwdrivers.

What are the chances that Lie-Nielsen might produce a set of flat bladed _and philips_ tipped traditional cabinet maker's oval handled screwdrivers? I would be first in line to buy a set if you did.

[James Owen]

Why is it that no-one, not even Lie Nielsen, sells a Phillips head English style cabinet screwdriver? Not even Axminster over in England.

I just missed the bidding on two that came up on eBay today.

Aren't phillips screws used in cabinet-making??

Gary Curtis:)


Tools for Working Wood has some decent-quality Swedish-made bit brace screw driver bits in 3 slotted sizes (6 mm, 8 mm, and 10 mm) and 2 Philips sizes (#1/#2 and #3/#4). Mine get used all the time, and you'd be impressed at how much torque an 8" brace can generate....

(They're listed under Drilling Equipment and are toward the bottom of that web page.)

[Chris Padilla]

It worked pretty well. However, at the last minute I became concerned that it may not be strong enough or might not move smoothy enough (the judges were to put it through its paces), so I epoxied it together. Big mistake. I got marked down significantly for that.

Derek,

Beautiful work! Is there any concern at the short-grain bend points in that brace? Have you considered a bent lamination?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Chris

I did consider a bent lamination when first conceptualizing the construction. However, not only would it impact on the presentation of the wood grain, but I realised that it was unnecessary. This Jarrah is very strong. Like steel. I also had a lot on "fun" trying to turn the end grain of the pommel (not sure if that is the correct term after reading Christopher Schwarz)! I was constantly resharpening chisels. Very hard wood indeed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Snap-On and Klien and many others make good quality tools. It is nice to have the ability to exchange a tool after years of use when it wears out. I am not sure if Sears still does that. Guess I could find out, I have a couple of their screwdrivers with worn tips.

For wood working, I bought a couple of English cabinet screwdrivers. Something like those shown here:

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/turnscrews.htm

Not too many makers of these any more. Woodcraft has a set of four on closeout, but they do not say where they are made.

jim

[Bill Houghton]

It is nice to have the ability to exchange a tool after years of use when it wears out. I am not sure if Sears still does that.

I recently took an ancient broken Craftsman 1/4" drive ratchet in, definitely low-end but marked, and the guy gave me a top of the line one (I think he was in a good mood, or maybe wanted to stick it to management that day)

[Ryan Stagg]

I have an original set of these (made by Irwin or Federal Tool many years ago):
http://www.garrettwade.com/x-hd-screwdriver-set-4/p/05R01ddd03/

I like them. They have a good heft, and something about the shape of the handle works well for me. Almost like an infill-screwdriver.

[Richard Dooling]

For wood working, I bought a couple of English cabinet screwdrivers. Something like those shown here:

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/turnscrews.htm

Not too many makers of these any more. Woodcraft has a set of four on closeout, but they do not say where they are made.

jim

I was wondering where you could get these. I had a few years ago and like them because the flat provides a place to use a wrench. I have one left and though I cannot see a makers mark it is the same design. Great drivers.

.