220 Outlet Wired Straight from the Box?

[Danny Thompson]

I seem to recall someone saying their breaker box was in their gar-shop and they had wired a 220 outlet directly to it (without running an outlet in the wall.)

Has anyone done this? Is it safe? Do you know of any instructions around doing this?

Thanks.

[Jim Mims]

Not quite following you.
You mean an outlet IN the breaker box?
Or a box with an outlet in it fastened directly to the breaker box?
We usually have an outlet available to connect corded equipment and it's location is relative to how long the cord on the equipment is and how far you are from the breaker box. It's possible to use a rather long cord (within reason), making sure you've accounted for voltage drop (use heavy enough gauge wire), or run some sort of surface mounted cable that's protected from damage (like up and over), or put the wire in some sort of raceway and located the outlet conveniently to the equipment.

- Jim

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't understand the question.

Are you asking whether you can run a receptacle in another building without a disconnecting means, or are you asking if you can run a branch circuit from your distribution panel to a receptacle in your garage?

regards, Rod.

[Steven Wilson]

Do you mean that someone directly connected a piece of machinery to a breaker in their box without using a disconnect or receptical? I wouldn't do that, I would wire in a disconnect if I was going to hardwire a piece of machinery (like an air compressor or dust collector).

[Roger Warford]

My understanding is that if the breaker box is "in sight" of the tool, then it can satisify the disconnect requirement and you can wire directly without a receptacle. Wiring receptacles are easy though. Why not add a receptacle? I personally like to see the power cord laying on the ground clearly disconnected while working on a tool (e.g., changing blades).

[Chris Padilla]

Sounds like a hardwire to the breaker box. There are different rules to govern hardwired or directwired equipment. I don't know them but they are different from equipment that has a plug on it.

[Jim Mims]

My understanding is that if the breaker box is "in sight" of the tool, then it can satisify the disconnect requirement and you can wire directly without a receptacle. Wiring receptacles are easy though. Why not add a receptacle? I personally like to see the power cord laying on the ground clearly disconnected while working on a tool (e.g., changing blades).
Correct, and also within 50 feet.
- Jim

[Steven Wilson]

Still, I would rather have a disconnect that I can turn off the power to the machine and run a padalock through - I guess doing hot work in the oil patch has that effect.

[Joe Mioux]

If you are saying that someone ran something like 10ga wire directly from the breaker and at the other end of the wire was a plug, then I would say Why?

why not just run a short length of conduit out of the box, terminate it in receptacle/junction box, run the wire through the conduit, attach the appropriate amp recepticle and call it done. dollar wise it's not expensive to it correctly.

Just make a longer 220v extension cord for the tool.

Joe,

p.s. I am not an electrician. Just looking at it from a pragmatic standpoint.

[Pete Kurki]

Correct, and also within 50 feet.
- Jim

When I was wiring my shop last year the state inspector required a switch for all hard wired equipment. Receptacle was not required even when the service panel was not in the same room. All my hard wired pieces also had a dedicated breaker. Not sure if it is a NEC requirement.

Pete

[Danny Thompson]

Said more plainly, my breaker box is in my garage/shop and I am trying to find the easiest and cheapest way to run 220 to it, without having to hire an electrician, if possible.

I wasn't sure if people were wiring directly to their boxes or not. That seems a little too risky for me. Steven and Roger, your idea sounds better, plugging in and out seems safer.

Joe, your suggestion sounds like a great solution, except I made a mistake. There is a breaker panel in my garage, not a breaker box, so I can't hang conduit out of the bottom the way I could with a box. I like the idea, though.

Sounds like the best alternative is to install an outlet in the wall just below my panel and run an extension cord to it. Soujnd about right?

[Chris Padilla]

Well, your "panel" is actually a box...it just isn't surface-mounted! ;)

I agree with your last sentence. :)

[Jason Beam]

I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding ... maybe i've got my directions crossed...

You have a main service panel in your garage - that's what runs the entire house, yes?

You said "trying to find the easiest and cheapest way to run 220 to it". This is what confuses me.

If you're trying to run a 220 circuit FROM it, I'm with you. If that's the case, I can't see any risk involved running a 220v outlet from it if you have enough breaker space and such. What risk do you think is there?

Now if you're trying to run 220 TO it like you said, I'm all sorts of confused. It makes me wonder if that's your main service panel and that you don't have any electricity going to it or you have something that just isn't translating into my brains very well.

Maybe everyone else gets it and I'm the only one in the dark?

[Danny Thompson]

Jason,

You are right. FROM it.

The risk was if I hard-wired rather than ran an outlet. I was also trying to avoid replacing an existing 110 outlet, rerunning the wire, replacing the breaker, etc. Now I see it wouldn't be hard to just run a new outlet in the wall very near the breaker panel.

All,

Best online resource for wiring instructions?

Thanks.

[Jason Beam]

Aha!!!

Now i understand! Jeeze, it just wasn't clickin' before. Sorry for all that! :)

Online resource for wiring instructions ... HERE! :)


Edit: I have one of those B&D wiring books that you can get at the borg that really cleared it up for me. I can't say I've got much else to offer for the online versions - i've never hunted for the stuff online except for this place.

[Chris Jenkins]

Danny,

If I understand everything correctly here, then you want to go from the 220 Breaker, out the front of the panel (since you don't have access the sides or top and bottom) straight to a machine.

I did this in a sense once. I did come out the side of the panel, cause I could. Most importnatly about coming out the sides or top of the box is that you can put in a strain releif. This is WAY important as if you run soft line (drop cord) and trip on it you can really do some sparky damage in the eletrical box. The strain relief prevents the leads from being tugged on in the panel and who knows what is going to happen inside the panel

I only did it during a construction phase of building my shop for a few nights till I had proper power pulled. I've been at a few construction sites where they do the same.

Hope this helps, that is if I had the correct image in mind.

Chris

[Rob Russell]

Running a cable right out of the front of a panelboard sounds pretty cheesy to me.

Even if your garage is fully sheetrocked, you could install a flush-mount box next to it with a conduit nipple to connect your panelboard to the box. That way you can have a clean installation for a 240v receptacle.

JMO.

Rob

[Roger Warford]

I'm not an electrician. I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'm guessing a line coming out the front of a panel isn't up to code. I would think it would be simple to knock out one of the bottom knockout's and drop a line straight down to an outlet mounted flush in the wall.

Even if you had to cut a small access hole to make it work, dry wall is easy enough to patch.

Electrical is not the place to take short cuts. If you accidently let the smoke outa them wires, bad things happen.

[Rob Russell]

I don't think there is anything in the NEC that would prohibit a properly installed cord coming out the front of a panelboard. I still think it's a bad idea. An inspector could flag it under 110.12 "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner", claiming that comng out the front of the panelboard is not "workmanlike". There is no definition of "workmanlike" in the NEC's Definitions section, so this would be a subjective call on the inspector's part and therefore rather difficult to dispute.

Most panelboards that I've seen have screw-down covers. Unless you have a hinged cover, what are you going to after you have this cord coming out of your cover and need to remove the cover to install a new breaker? You take the cover off and ... you have this piece of cord running to the breaker ... what do you do with the cover? You don't want so much cable inside the panelboard that you can put the cover on the floor - how would you neatly run the cable inside the panelboard when you put the cover back on?

As Roger pointed out - sheetrock work is not difficult.

Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Rob. And it would be easy to cut in an old-work box just below the panel (carefully to avoid any supply lines if they come in from the bottom) and then work the appropriate size wire between the panel and the box.

[Chris Padilla]

Lottsa ways to skin this cat! :)

[Danny Thompson]

This sounds good. Flushmount box below the panel to house an outlet. Right? Using the same panel exit path, or a similar one, as the other outbound wires. If none exists, add a nipple to protect the wire.

[Chris Padilla]

Danny,

I guess it depends on how the panel connections are done: in conduit or strain-reliefed romex (no conduit). You may need to pop a knock-out and use a very short nipple or you might be able to share an existing opening. There might be rules on how many wires can share one knock-out.

Just don't forget that you need a bit of space from the panel because you still need to get the outlet cover on nice 'n clean.

Odds are decent that if you use a rigid nipple of 2-3" length, it'll help support the box and provide adequate clearance. :)

[Jim Becker]

For this application, the snap-in plastic grommets make for an easy solution to get your new wire out of the box. The existing exits may be filled. In any case, be sure to kill power to the panel before you start trying to push things around. And remember to cut the hole for the old-work box, pull the wire and THEN install the box.

[Jack A Entrekin]

ok, if I under stand you want to wire the 220 tool (say a table saw) directly to the panel? If so you must have a disconnect within 5 feet of the tool. Some applications require a LOCKABLE disconnect but if this is in a home shop that will not be the case (that is for factories and /or plants to prevent accidental power ups) hope this will help.

[Charlie Knauer]

It is a violation to bring the cable through the cover. It will also void the UL listing of the cover and panel. You can not run rubber cord as a wiring method. It is fine as an appliance cord but can not be used as a wiring method.
Charlie

[Gary Lange]

I personally think you should get and electrician to run the wiring you are needing. I had a guy come out and do mine by asking for someone over on my Fishing sites. He charged me $80.00 and wired up three 220 outlets and one 110 outlet. I had already run the wires though.

[Rob Russell]

It is a violation to bring the cable through the cover. It will also void the UL listing of the cover and panel. You can not run rubber cord as a wiring method. It is fine as an appliance cord but can not be used as a wiring method.
Charlie

Charlie,

I'm not challenging your assertion - I have some questions because this is a great opportunity to learning from a licensed electrician (at least, electrician is what's in your profile).

What is it about running a cable through the cover that's a violation? Let's get past the idea that it's not a good idea, because I know it's not a good idea. Also assume a hinged cover so the whole issue of removing the panelboard cover isn't a problem. Assume the cord was installed through a properly sized hole with appropriate strain relief for the cable.

What in the NEC would preclude such an installation, other than an AHJ saying it's a dumb idea? In terms of the UL listing, I know it's acceptable to create additional openings in a panelboard for raceway installations - is that only in the body?

In advance, thanks for your expertise.

Rob

[Charlie Knauer]

Rob, the biggest issue is what do you have to go through to remove the panel cover that has a cable or cables going through the cover? Do you leave 5 or 6 feet of cable curled up inside the panel? If that is the case it would violate 110-12 ... neat and workman like manner. Other violations would include 110-3 Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing and labeling. In 34 years of installing panels I have never ran across a panel cover approved for cable entry. I have however seen butchered panel covers that needed to be replaced due to someone notching them to install a cable. They were flagged during home inspections and required replacement. Most covers are not available seperately or are obsolete.$$$
I have never encountered a residential panel that had a fully hinged cover. Perhaps a hinged door over the breakers. Any time you alter a UL listed piece of equipment you void the listing. UL White book covers this. The flexible cord would violate 400-7 b. Must be used with attachment plug and energized from a receptacle outlet.

Charlie