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Brad Hammond
03-31-2004, 3:23 PM
Hey all,
i'm about to start the new shop and garage and i'm considering using a sliding door on the back corner of the shop like Norm's got on his shop.
i'm got the hardware located at the co-op, but i was wanting input from those who've built one yourself.
how hard is it to "insulate" or at least seal these doors off a little to keep the major drafts out.
thanx
brad

Steve Clardy
03-31-2004, 5:07 PM
My shop was originally built with sliding barn doors. I got rid of them and installed 10x10 insulated overhead doors. Though the sides could be sealed off somewhat, there was no way I could see to seal off the tops. Rained poured in through them, was very drafty. Steve

Kevin Herber
03-31-2004, 9:34 PM
Take a look at the letters to Norm at www.newyankee.com Look at the Shop Notes section. There are a number of posts there regarding his door.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes. -- Kevin

Tim Morton
04-04-2004, 1:20 PM
when I built my garage last year, one of the things on my list was "norms door". It worked out grat and if you want some pictures of how it turned out email me. As for sealing it off, the door itself overhangs the framing by about 4 inches on all three sides and the bottom by about an inch.With it being only an 1/8th or so off the frame I don't think I am am having any problems But in the winter you can easily slip some weather stripping all around the perimeter to further seal it up. The only mistake i made, although i chose to make the mistake for practical use of the door and viusal impact was to put the door NOT on the gabled end of the garage, so in the winter I have a large snowbank pushing against it.

Jamie Buxton
04-04-2004, 4:11 PM
I know a guy who was determined to put a sliding barn door on his shop, and also determined to make it seal as well as a residential door. (His shop is heated and air-conditioned.) His take is that it is very difficult to achieve a good seal with a sliding interface. If it is too tight it doesn't seal, and if it is too loose air goes through it. He looked to a minivan side door for his inspiration. When the door is opened, the first move is out away from the van. That move out (or in, when closing) is the one that does the sealing and unsealing, against flexible weatherstripping.

On his shop door, he uses the standard barn-door track and wheels to slide the door back and forth. However, he hung the door from the wheels with chains. Before it is latched, the door hangs an inch or so away from the building. He built four cam-clamp thingies which grab the inside of the door and pull it toward the building. Because the door is hanging on chains, it can move toward the building and seal all the way around.

The door is long enough that it overlaps the floor slab, and seals at the bottom just like at the sides and top. His seals are thick foam things intended for sealing the bottom of a roll-up door to a slab.

His design seals well, and I'm sure it was a fun challenge for him. However, if I were in his place, I'd probably use a pair of hinged doors -- like french doors but bigger and more robust. There's no need to invent anything.

Brad Hammond
04-04-2004, 11:10 PM
good points guys............thanx

Jamie Buxton
04-05-2004, 12:10 AM
I'm now rememebering one more detail about that door. (I saw it maybe ten years ago.) The builder had it hanging from chains, but said that if he were to do it again he'd change that detail. The chains offer too much compliance when he's pushing the door along the track. Instead, he'd substitute a piece of plywood for the chains. There would be a horizontal hinge along the top of the door, the plywood above it, and the wheels would fasten to the plywood. The door would still move in and out the same way as with the chains, but it wouldn't swing when he pushed it the other way -- along the track.

Jack Berry
12-03-2008, 2:31 PM
I'm now rememebering one more detail about that door. (I saw it maybe ten years ago.) The builder had it hanging from chains, but said that if he were to do it again he'd change that detail. The chains offer too much compliance when he's pushing the door along the track. Instead, he'd substitute a piece of plywood for the chains. There would be a horizontal hinge along the top of the door, the plywood above it, and the wheels would fasten to the plywood. The door would still move in and out the same way as with the chains, but it wouldn't swing when he pushed it the other way -- along the track.
Any chance of getting pictures of your friend's sliding barn door installation?

Fred Belknap
12-03-2008, 7:17 PM
My shop has two sliding doors, one is 8'x10', other is 8'x8'. I used tins on the outside with 2x6 framing with 1/2" styrofoam pink insulation. There is 1/4" hardboard on the inside. I put windows in each one. They seal pretty good, not as good as a house door but they do ok for me. There is a gas well on my property and I have free gas but it don't seem like they cause much extra gas use. When I have the dc running I leave one of the windows open about 6" as the dc exhausts to the outside. I can stand the cool better than the dust.

Dave Cav
12-06-2008, 2:16 AM
I had two sliding barn type doors on my shop building, which is a 24 x 48' metal pole building. The doors were impossible to seal and I even had birds get into the building occasionally. After seven or eight years, this year I had a roll up door with a garage door opener installed on the front opening (where I drive my truck and motorcycles into the shop) and I totally removed the other door on the opposite end of the building and framed in the opening, and installed a pair of regular passage doors. (It was also a good excuse to get a used Hitachi framing nailer.) Where I installed the roll up door I left the slider and I'll close and chain it shut when I go on vacation for a little added security. This winter the shop is much more snug and warm without the barn doors.

Dave C

Michael Schapansky
12-06-2008, 10:26 AM
I know a guy who was determined to put a sliding barn door on his shop, and also determined to make it seal as well as a residential door. (His shop is heated and air-conditioned.) His take is that it is very difficult to achieve a good seal with a sliding interface. If it is too tight it doesn't seal, and if it is too loose air goes through it. He looked to a minivan side door for his inspiration. When the door is opened, the first move is out away from the van. That move out (or in, when closing) is the one that does the sealing and unsealing, against flexible weatherstripping.

On his shop door, he uses the standard barn-door track and wheels to slide the door back and forth. However, he hung the door from the wheels with chains. Before it is latched, the door hangs an inch or so away from the building. He built four cam-clamp thingies which grab the inside of the door and pull it toward the building. Because the door is hanging on chains, it can move toward the building and seal all the way around.



The door is long enough that it overlaps the floor slab, and seals at the bottom just like at the sides and top. His seals are thick foam things intended for sealing the bottom of a roll-up door to a slab.

His design seals well, and I'm sure it was a fun challenge for him. However, if I were in his place, I'd probably use a pair of hinged doors -- like french doors but bigger and more robust. There's no need to invent anything.

I've been thinking about the same problem. I have roll up overhead doors that don't seal. Heat and cold are part of the problem and during the spring and summer I get mud daubers (wasps) that build their mud nests in every conceivable hole, nook and cranny. My garage doors are also the main ingress and egress for the house. So to keep the shop from getting too dirty (Har!) I try to keep the big doors closed which means opening and closing the garage doors everytime someone wants to go in. This gets old. I'm going to build 4 carriage house doors that can be insulated and sealed to solve all 3 problems. At least, once my shop is done being painted and set up.

Kerry Wright
12-07-2008, 7:47 PM
Here is my solution, I call it the "Magic Wall". It's fully insulated, sound deadening, and best of all the WOW :cool: factor whenever someone sees it for the first time :D

Kerry Wright
12-07-2008, 7:49 PM
And a few more to complete the set.

Chuck Thoits
12-07-2008, 8:28 PM
That's a cool wall. I have a slider that is insulated and for a seal I just used garage door weather stripping. It has worked great for 7 or so years now.

Jamie Buxton
12-07-2008, 8:52 PM
Here is my solution, I call it the "Magic Wall". It's fully insulated, sound deadening, and best of all the WOW :cool: factor whenever someone sees it for the first time :D

Where did you get the curved track? The only stuff I've seen is straight.

Norm St.Onge
12-07-2008, 9:01 PM
These guys have alot of track options: http://barndoorhardware.com/barn_door_hardware.htm

-Norm

Kerry Wright
12-07-2008, 9:40 PM
Thanks, Chuck!

Jamie, I don't have the link for the manufacture with me at the moment, but I ordered it through my local ACE hardware store. They are the only ones that could get it. I had to go with 36" radius because they don't make 24" anymore. It wasn't cheap, if I remember right, it retailed for over $200 each. The guy I ordered it through knocked it down to $165 and then after it got lost in shipment he knocked it down to $145. Needless to say, he has a customer for life!!!

Off the top of my head I think the hardware (straight rails, curved rails, hangers, rollers, bolts, 2x2 angle iron, misc stuff) ran $500-$600. The door/wall, maybe another $100 by the time I get the locking hardware and handles.

An insulated, good quality overhead door would have cost me at least that, and well over a thousand for a roll up w/insulation. Neither one of those would give me the R-value and sound deadening of this one. Then of course there's the self satisfaction of conceptualizing, designing and building something like this. :D

Kerry Wright
12-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Found ithe link for the curved rail. Note: The online catalog is outdated, they only carry the 36" not the 24".
http://www.natman.com/prodinfo_itemdetail.asp?cat=8&sub=24&prod=45&catalog=1245&item=487

James A. Wolfe
12-08-2008, 12:09 PM
I'm just getting started building my shop and the people who provided my plans also designed a bi-fold door arrangement. It looks like a slider when closed but operates just like a heavy duty version of a pair of closet doors. Ill be able to seal against the insulated doors when they close and there is no sliding contact to wear or distort the seals. They are hinged at either side of the opening using regular door hinges and suspended on the ends with rolling track like you'd use for a slider. I can't say how well they work in the real world yet but in my make believe shop, they work great.
Jim

Jack Berry
12-16-2008, 12:53 PM
I found hardware that a friend of a friend has on his metal buliding doors, sliding barn door type. The hardware is a "Cam Action Jamb Latch, Zinc, For Use On 1-1/2" Or 3-1/2" Thick Door Frames. Made by NATIONAL MFG. CO. Haven't seen it yet but the adjustable rods are described by my pal to be about 3/8" which should be stout enough. There are several places on the web selling them - best price I saw was at:
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/Categories

Kirk Poore
12-16-2008, 2:11 PM
Interesting. Anybody heard of anyone using pocket doors? It would seem to me they could solve the sealing problem, at least around the sides and top, and take up less space than the (very clever) curved track doors pictured here.

Kirk

Sonny Edmonds
12-16-2008, 11:12 PM
They hang from an overhead track on rollers.
My Dad had a place in Oregon that had these type doors on the big shop.
Yeah, they leaked some air, but not a huge amount. When shut, a hook and eye was used to pull them close to the opening and hold them there.
I've always admired these simple hung doors rolling on their substantial rails.
And if they "slide", you better be lubing your wheels bearings, BobbO! :p
I have a high quality paneled roll up door on my garage shop and it seals almost too tight. But I don't have the space for hung doors in the first place anyway. ;)

Todd Crawford
12-17-2008, 2:50 PM
james, do you have a photo of those bifold doors?

Kent E. Matthew
12-21-2008, 2:35 PM
I had the same leak problem with my door. I had some old track rollers that fit perfectly inside some 2x2x16ga. tubing. With a straight edge and a plasma cutter I cut the groove. To solve the leak problem I bent up some break metal. Started it as flashing and bent it down and around over the sliding door track. Works great. Here is a before shot.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Goose5/shop/aftersmall.jpg


And here is an after shot.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Goose5/shop/newsmallshop.jpg

James A. Wolfe
12-27-2008, 3:59 AM
james, do you have a photo of those bifold doors?
Todd,
Unfortunately, the weather here hasn't cooperated so all I have to show on my shop build is a real nice, flat muddy spot. The drawings look nice but I can't say how they'll work and what I'll need to do to get them more weather-tight than a "normal" barn. I'll post pics when and if the rain stops long enough to get the foundation done.
Jim

David Freed
12-27-2008, 3:26 PM
On his shop door, he uses the standard barn-door track and wheels to slide the door back and forth. However, he hung the door from the wheels with chains. Before it is latched, the door hangs an inch or so away from the building. He built four cam-clamp thingies which grab the inside of the door and pull it toward the building. Because the door is hanging on chains, it can move toward the building and seal all the way around.

The door is long enough that it overlaps the floor slab, and seals at the bottom just like at the sides and top. His seals are thick foam things intended for sealing the bottom of a roll-up door to a slab.


I have a similar setup on my kiln. I have a 10' x 24' 600 lb door that rests on the floor of the kiln. I use 2 winches to pick it up and then roll it away on 2 extra heavy duty, 4 roller trolleys. I used 3/4" auto heater hose for the gasket. On both sides and the top I pull it in with cam latches that are normally used on pole barn sliding doors.


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