How much are burls worth to you?(What would you trade to get some?)

[curtis rosche]

Last night i was talking with my stepdad and told him my plans for the summer: get a job and sell some things at an art show to get money to buy a lathe, then turn all some and sell things. He then followed with a long crusade on how I can only spend 10% of what I earn (the rest goes in the bank) and that a major investment like a midi lathe is not going to happen. Him not looking past the initial exspence to the selling work and being able to do something I like.
So back the main point. How much is a burl worth to you? I will be willing to trade some burls (apple,spaulted cherry) some figured peices(lightly spaulted maple crotches, cherry crotches) and regular cherry, oak, a little bit of poplar, and limit less lam-beam.

I would be looking to trade a couple for some tools, and then if a group of you guys got together and bought a midi lathe (8-10in capacity if possible?:o) I could trade the group some burls or wood (since its kinda hard to buy a lathe in peices).

By doing it this way I get around the 10% rule since no money is being spent except for the money I will spend on shipping.

This is just a thought, and cant happen till I make some more money to pay for shipping.

[Russ Peters]

I can't help with the wood but I will say that I wish my father had imposed a rule like that when I had my first jobs. That money if it had been invested would buy me a house or at least a very nicely equipped shop by now. Sounds like a good plan though to turnaround and sell what you make but don't rely on that as a source of income in the long run.

[curtis rosche]

you dont want to trade your tools for some of my burls?:(
the rule make sense because other wise i probably would spend most of it, but this would be a thing that pays for its self and give me a job for the summer so they dont have to drive me to an actual job

[Curt Fuller]

"When I was a child of fourteen, my father was so
ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around.
But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astounded at how
much the old man had learned in seven years!"

-Mark Twain

[Greg Just]

Curtis:

I want to suggest you consider looking for and joining a wood turning club. For a small fee, you can probably get access to a lathe and turning tools, plus you you have the benefit of learning from fellow turners. You can build up an inventory of goods and sell them. Save your money and buy a lathe later. This might be a good way to get started without a large cash outlay.

My 2 cents.

Good luck,

Greg

[Matt Hutchinson]

I have been thinking about your situation, and I like Greg's idea. Now, I don't know your transportation situation, but you may be able to find a lathe within biking distance if you don't have a car. This would give you a chance to not only continue turning, but possibly connect with individuals you may have a better lathe than a mini at an affordable price. It's so hard to be patient, I know, but saving money for the moment could prove beneficial. That way if a nice deal comes along you will be able to take advantage of it. Plus, you will get to keep all those hard won pieces of burl and such.

In all honesty, I wish I was in a position to trade you something. I know what it's like to want to get something going. I have had my nice big lathe for over three years now. I have been chomping at the bit to try starting a turning business, and I have had to keep postponing it, year after year. Waiting is the worst part, and I understand your sense of urgency. Hang in there, and whatever happens this summer, try not to get discouraged. Know that you WILL make it happen, no matter what. I have confidence in you. :)

Hutch

[Brian Brown]

My parents imposed the same rule on me when I was a teen, and got a job. Not too thrilled about it then, but I am overjoyed now. Because I learned to live on nothing, and save large amounts of what I made, I was able to get into a home (not my dream home by any stretch, but a roof overhead) and start a business. Neither would have been possible without learning the discipline to save my money. Try to find someone in your area who would be willing to mentor you. There are many retired people who would love nothing more, and they often have used equipment they are no longer using and would be willing to sell. When I was a young aspiring photographer, there were many people willing to mentor me, and nearly all of the equipment I purchased to start my business was used (some very lightly used) from these people, or from situations they helped me get into that allowed me to purchase brand new equipment very inexpensively. A local turning club is the best place to start looking. Good luck!

[Jon Lanier]

Now going against the flow of the crowd here. What if you decided not to work at all? Nothing in the bank, but you are not working for what you wanted to get work for in the first place.

I know my son at 14 wants to work the concession stand at the little league fields. The only reason, is to get money to buy some things he wants that we won't buy. Not that we are opposed to them... just can't afford them. He wants to go to basketball camp and a few other things. I see nothing wrong with working hard. Putting some money away and then working toward that goal.

But if I were to tell the boy if he got a job all but 10% of what earned right now... he wouldn't work. Wouldn't learn the value of work.

[Richard Madison]

Curtis,
Good advice above. Get the job, work hard, do a good job, and save your money as others have advised. You can get what you want, but maybe just not as soon as you want it.

Quote from my late father, and not sure where he got it; "All things cometh to he who waiteth, if he worketh like hell while he waiteth". Not strictly true, of course, but worth a thought.

[Barry Elder]

Curtis, as I have said before, if you really want to enjoy woodturning, stay in school and use what you learn. Only a very few woodturners can make a living at woodturning and it almost always requires a lot of education to learn to run a business, and a lot more education to earn enough money to hire an accountant and an attorney, and even more money to get lucky enough to find a wonderful woman to put up with your woodturning for a lifetime. Do you really want to risk your future family on sneaking around your Dad's rules? He's been there, done that!!

[Russ Peters]

Reading the others responses I had an idea. What if you made out a business plan and showed your step-father what you were working towards. I don't know him but he might change his mind if you present he idea in this way. He might want you to save 90% because he is afraid that you will spend it on "gotta-haveit-right-now" stuff instead of something that you will use and start a business with. Just another idea.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Curtis I agree with others. One thing you don't want to do is sneak around behind your dads back. I know it is difficult but it doesn't work. We gave my son the same deal. When he got a job he got 10% and 90% went into the bank. I knew if we didn't like a lot of kids the money would burn a hole in his pocket. This last Christmas he sat down and talked with me. He thanked me for what we did becuase he said without making him save as we did he could not have afforded his dream car. So go to work, find you a turning club or mentor to fill your summer till school starts.

[Jeff Bower]

Reading the others responses I had an idea. What if you made out a business plan and showed your step-father what you were working towards. I don't know him but he might change his mind if you present he idea in this way. He might want you to save 90% because he is afraid that you will spend it on "gotta-haveit-right-now" stuff instead of something that you will use and start a business with. Just another idea.

Curtis, Russ has a great idea here...show your stepdad that you have a plan and tell him you will stick with it.

My parents made me put 70% into the bank when I got my first job when I was 12 thru high school. I did the same during the summer while in college...I paid for my college education with that money....and had some left over to have a good time while in school! I plan on doing the same with my kids.

[curtis rosche]

as for the turner closest. they arent in biking distance. i get the idea and like the idea of the 10% because i would spend it but a lathe is not just a right now item and it would be used until it died, I dont understand why he wont just let me take the investment. im not trying to make a living on it just make some money over the summer to put in the bank. the main problem with getting a job is that minimum wage 10% wont add up quick and then i would have to get a ride. the closest place is 15min drive to get anywhere.

i have enough burls and wood that i wouldnt notice if some were missing so if you want some dont think twice before asking. i have plenty and the orchard near me just burns them anyways, and they have a lot, all of the turning wood that i have was gotten for 5$ if i had bought it it wouldve been close to $1,000

[Bob Hallowell]

Well I might be inclined to take you up on your offer with some tools and maybe some cash, But it looks to me like you are missing a grreat job opertunity right in front off your nose. how about ebaying some of those burl. Make accquiring and selling burls,and crotches and so forth your job. There are alot of turners that can't get there hands on these types of wood. you might get $10-20 for a crotch bowl blank. You might even want to post some blanks in the classifed section

Bob

[Dick Strauss]

Curtis,
Bob beat me to it...sell the burls on ebay or Craigslist. That way you don't have to pay for shipping. Make sure you don't tell anyone of your burl source, especially the local folks from CL. Then, kick some of the ebay profits back to the orchard owners so that you have exclusive rights to their wood pile. The orchard folks will be happy to have them gone along with a few $$$ in their pockets!

The only expenses will be for the chainsaw (gas, maintenance, safety equipment, etc), BS blades (??), and Anchorsal. You can ship the boxes of blanks every few days or once a week when you go into town to the post office. They can be shipped via USPS flat rate boxes for $9-13 (all paid by the buyer). Trust me when I tell you folks will be happy to have flat rate shipping instead of being charged $50 to ship a heavy blank.

I agree with most others...don't go behind your dad's back. If you want him to think of you and treat you like a man, you need to act like one and follow the rules! Tell your dad you'd like to sell turning blanks and see how he responds. Get the business started before Summer (if possible) so you know how much demand is really out there. If the demand isn't there, then you'll have time to find a Summer job before all the good ones are taken.


Good luck,
Dick

[curtis rosche]

that idea might work..... but i already asked him about selling stuff on ebay... he said no, thats its not garunteed that you get your money and that ebay takes a lot of the profit. and he's not movible on that subject. now i could post them here in the classifieds but for some reason it wont let me post or reply to anything there

[curtis rosche]

oh yeah..... since hes 62 he doesnt like getting out the chainsaw unless he has to and we dont have a band saw, so any peices would be the whole peice, then whoever gets it could cut it them selves and get a little extra wood

[Geoff Hanha]

:DoK YOU may as well have my input, the ebay idea is a dam good one, im a bit miffed about guys selling wood on ebay as the price is going up to much at times, but people are buying small bits for really daft money in auction, a small round 5" by 5" was sold for £8 postage and £22 bid know to me that is daft, so go on to ebay and make yourself some money before it fizzles out. Im sorry guys but im not in agreement with the money being put away, good idea in one respect but times chance you can put the idea there but not inforce it, if you are going to learn to respect money and understand it you have to spend it and do things for yourself, putting a plan togeather would not hurt, can give you an incite to the real world. Whos to know that Curtis does not become one of the biggest turners and comes up with new ways and changes the idea of turning and makes a bunch of money from it, if you don't have ago you never know. If you cock up then your young enough to do something eles.You can save all you want but its no good if you get hit by a car tommorow. Lifes for living theres time to play safe and if there is not then it would not have mattered. my lad is doing great thankfully, he was asked to put some away it took him 2 years then started to think, im glad i did not push him. Geoff

[Bob Hallowell]

Well you could show him alittle of the wood on ebay and show him that you can make money at. I do think you would have to learn to chainsaw yourself and cut some things down to manageble shipping size.

Bob

[Bob Hallowell]

that idea might work..... but i already asked him about selling stuff on ebay... he said no, thats its not garunteed that you get your money and that ebay takes a lot of the profit. and he's not movible on that subject. now i could post them here in the classifieds but for some reason it wont let me post or reply to anything there

you have to be a contribitor which cost $6 to post in the classifides

Bob

[Bill Wyko]

Curtis, I started my business 16 years ago with .38cents in my pocket.....................I ain't quiting until I get it back!!:eek: In a slow economy the first thing to go is luxury items. Unfortunately everything I do is a luxury item. The trick is to get a well paying job and do turning as a hobby to make extra spending money(for tools to make extra money....to buy more tools etc, etc.)

[curtis rosche]

i wasnt looking to start a big buisness just make some thing to have sell at a couple local shops and some things for a couple of art shows.
as for learing the chainsaw. that will never happen. he doesnt let his 30year old sons touch it, so thats out of the question. i would be able to use a sawzall but again that cost money. and back to the main issue. i can make money before getting the lathe or it doesnt help. i would have to make over $2000 just to be able to spend $200

[Geoff Hanha]

....... but joking apart sounds like you might have to sit him down and talk about life, (yours) you make him out to be a bit of an armchair guy with old fashion ideals and a bit closed mined, at the end of the day its your life, yes he should be there to help and guide you and want the best for you, and like any parant, want you to have more than they have or had. Ebay is a very good way to earn money form small or large amounts, you could always have local pickup as well then use some of this money towards mail cost to start with, if you have the wood you will make the money, get guys to bring there own chainsaws there is always a way around. And you do get paid do it through paypal you pay a small amount to them and you get your money, there is no rip off. All the best mate ..geoff

[Scott Donley]

I suggest summer school. Would not hurt you and maybe even shop is a possibility. If that is not an option, see Curts post, Good luck.

[curtis rosche]

already asked about that. our school doesnt have a program that goes into the shop over the summer.

[Andy Hoyt]

Curtis - you've been getting a lot of good advice from a bunch of grownups who barely know you. We all share a common bond with turning, but the kind of dilemma you're in appears (to me anyway) beyond the scope of our collective relationship.

Your mom and step-dad are the only ones currently responsible and accountable to ensure that you grow and mature into a productive member of the society that (allegedly) exists outside our beloved vortex. I know it's tough, but from your own report they seem to have your best interests at heart.

Listen to 'em.

I eventually listened to my step-dad when I was your age and we connected in a way that warms my heart to this very day.

[Steve Kubien]

No offence intended to any of the other respondants, but I think Andy's advice will pay off the most in the long run. To a very large degree I always lived with the idea that while I lived in my parents house, I lived by their rules. I say to a very large degree because like all kids, I tried to get away with a few stupid things (and usually got caught). Lots of seemingly dumb rules too, like sit up straight, chew with your mouth closed, be respectful of your elders... Hey, these are the same things I am trying to teach my kids right now!

Take care,
Steve Kubien

[curtis rosche]

i guess, if i have to

[Hilel Salomon]

Curtis,

Perhaps you have already posted this information, but I'm curious about the following:
How old are you?
If you are in school, in what grade are you?
What exactly are your long range plans?

As for selling your wood turnings, it might be a good thing to look at a show or gallery before you determine your financial future. At Louisville, I was surprised at how reasonably priced some of the work was, while the very well known turners could command very high prices for the simplest works.
Personally, I wish that we would, as a country, do more to support aspiring artists. As an untalented turner, I have incredible respect for turners and artists in general, and I hope you don't get discouraged. Still, caution and alternatives would be a good thing.
Luck, Hilel

[George Guadiane]

I have read most of the other posts, not too carefully, but looked at them:
I don't know the guy, but MOST people have a soft spot of some kind, if you are the driven, determined individual that you seem to be, find it and "exploit" it. See if you can find a way to get him on your side.
Try getting your (step)dad to take you to a turning club meeting. Try to get him interested in turning. At least let him see how interested YOU are in turning, and how you think it will help you develop the discipline and skills that he wants you to have by simply saving money. Any business person knows that you have to invest to get a return on investment.
I would much rather see my kids at home working with a lathe, learning a skill, developing his/her eye hand coordination and motor skills to carry with them for the rest of their life than sitting in front of a video game or just running around, or even working at a job, just to have one.
I agree that you should have a goal, but it will be much easier, and more interesting to attain a goal you believe in. You COULD have difficult goals AND enjoy the process of achieving them. Just saving money isn't really a sign of success if you intend to spend it the minute you are not under parental control. If you can show your determination, your passion, your reasons for them and your intention to do this, no matter what the "obstacles," you would be hard to argue with...
AND, if it works out that you cannot persuade him, don't just give up the idea.
I have kids, and stepkids (not much difference to me). I would LOVE IT if they liked turning.

You have what seems to be quality wood to trade, unless you stole it in the first place, you must be industrious and interested enough to go out and find it. Some parents are reluctant to negotiate, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.
In your place, I would do the above, then explain that you would be glad to put 90% of your earnings from turning into savings (unless he thinks that better tools might be a good investment:eek:).
I'm a hard*ss, but it would be next to impossible to turn you down if you used those tactics on me.:cool:
Oh, and after 5 years at this, it still costs me more than I take in to be a wood turner, and I was CERTAIN that I could make money right away - I was wrong. HOWEVER, at your age, you would be learning a skill, a trade and finding enjoyment in the actual WORK, not just in the money that you might get from it. That, in my personal experience is worth much more than the money, and the knowledge lasts a lifetime and the knowledge translates into and applies to many other things in the rest of your life (if you let it).
IMHO:o
G


Last night i was talking with my stepdad and told him my plans for the summer: get a job and sell some things at an art show to get money to buy a lathe, then turn all some and sell things. He then followed with a long crusade on how I can only spend 10% of what I earn (the rest goes in the bank) and that a major investment like a midi lathe is not going to happen. Him not looking past the initial exspence to the selling work and being able to do something I like.
So back the main point. How much is a burl worth to you? I will be willing to trade some burls (apple,spaulted cherry) some figured peices(lightly spaulted maple crotches, cherry crotches) and regular cherry, oak, a little bit of poplar, and limit less lam-beam.

I would be looking to trade a couple for some tools, and then if a group of you guys got together and bought a midi lathe (8-10in capacity if possible?:o) I could trade the group some burls or wood (since its kinda hard to buy a lathe in peices).

By doing it this way I get around the 10% rule since no money is being spent except for the money I will spend on shipping.

This is just a thought, and cant happen till I make some more money to pay for shipping.

[Glenn Hodges]

I have a bunch of gouges I don't use anymore I would trade for some good looking wood.

[curtis rosche]

i turned 16 in febuary, i am in 10th grade. i plan on becomeing an engineer(the type people come to when they need a problem solved), i will try talking to my step dad again, as for the bowl gouges, i have been contacted by a person who is trying to set me up with a lathe through a local store that wants some wood, and i might be able to get some from that, if not i will keep you in mind for gouges.

[michael gallagher]

Curtis-

I may get flamed for this, but I don't care.

I've read through most of these posts, and I can sympathize with your plight. I used to cut a lot of yards, and made great money at it - my Dad also made me save the majority of it after covering things like gas, repairs, etc. It hacked me off at the time I couldn't blow my cash on things I really "needed" at the moment like a go-kart, stereo, records (anyone remember them?), etc. However, because I was forced to save, I was able to buy a new car for all cash when I turned 18 and it paid for a significant portion of graduate school - I knew after pushing a mower, etc. for all of those years there had to be a better way to make a living.

It can be a hard lesson. However, it taught me a lot about myself, and created the discipline in managing those savings that have allowed me to now live in a nice house, purchase several luxuries in addition to the necessities, and with the exception of my mortgage be debt free.

Reading your posts above, I think a lot of us here on the board have been in your shoes. However, I read a lot of "whine" in your posts about the restrictive stepfather. Sure, he sounds hard-headed and stuck in his ways. That's what Dads (step or otherwise) are supposed to do. You'll thank him for it later: trust me on this.

Take the advice of others here and scratch out a business plan - here's how much you think you will receive in net proceeds in a business venture selling burls, etc. you are obtaining for free. If the old man won't let you use his chainsaw, that's ok: offer him a piece of the action if he will cut it up for you for (a) his time, and (b) wear and tear on his chainsaw - they do break and need maintenance on a regular schedule. If you sell it on eBay, sure they take a healthy cut - considering you are sourcing the wood for free, the buyer pays you for shipping, flat rate boxes from the post office are free, they will pick up packages for free from your doorstep, sounds to me like you have everything to gain and nothing to lose except 35 cents to list your first item on eBay. If he won't let you use his chainsaw due to safety reasons, etc. (my Dad wouldn't let me use his, either for that very reason when I was 16), if you really "want" this business opportunity of selling burls to finance tool purchases go buy or borrow a handsaw and apply some elbow grease to the project.

If you do start this business, I'm with your stepfather in saving: 10% for fun, 10% to charity, something for Uncle Sam, cover your operating expenses (chainsaw and other maintenance) then the rest to savings for a rainy day. Rainy days do happen.

If he still says no to your plan, you tried. Don't go behind his back or that will lead to other reprecussions. You're 16, and you will receive your emancipation in two years - then you can theoretically do whatever you want. Respect his decision, whether you agree to it or not, but give it a well-thought out try vs. admitting defeat first and complaining about it to no end.

My two cents-

Michael
Former lawn guy in Texas

[curtis rosche]

i have found a local store through one of you, that has a lathe that they would be willing to trade for burls for them to sell. once i have the lathe and start turning with it, i will see about getting a lot more and selling some. if i sell stuff and have a job i will make more, thus 10% is more. thanks for the help so far, i will keep you guys up dated, the lathe is a rikon.

[curtis rosche]

how good are rikons?

[George Guadiane]

how good are rikons?
More than "good enough." I'm sure it will serve your needs.
Enjoy:D

[Matt Hutchinson]

Well, I just got a Rikon and I have mixed feelings. It's a good little lathe, but I am just not used to its "light-weightness". I find it really easy to impart vibration/chatter, even when it seems there is no reason for it to be happening. After working on the lathes at school you may find there will be things you can't do as quickly. It won't let you hog off lots of wood, and it will force you to use the BEST technique with fairly light cuts. BUT....

Other than that, it's great. It just takes a little more patience. It has the best belt changing around, and it has unlimited bed extensions.

The burls-for-tools exchange sounds sweet. I'm so glad things are working out this way....no money out of pocket!!!

Hutch

[Russ Sears]

Curtis, what store will be selling your burls?

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Curtis, I'm looking forward to your excuse about this idea....much borrowed from others here....

Fact: You want to earn money this summer without the responsibilities tied with "getting a job"...like, being on time, doing as you are told, performing less than desireable tasks...

Fact: Your stepfather is trying to teach you life lessons. Get a job and earn money, and save most of it.

Fact: You have no equipment to turn pens and such.

Fact: You have a local orchard from which you can get an ample supply of wood, but...your stepdad won't cut the wood for you or allow you to use the chainsaw. Further more, he rightly believes that Ebay may not be the best path for you to follow for sales.

Fact: There are several wood forums that allow you to place, for the most part, free ads offering your burls, etc. The Post office will GIVE you flat rate shipping boxes and with one days notice, they will PICK UP at your door!

So, here it is....my idea for you.

Do whatever you have to do around the house, the neighborhood to earn $50. Buy a bowsaw ($20) and start cutting some of that wood into flat rate size boxes and post your pictures on the forums with reasonable prices and ship em....and show your stepfather that you appreciate his wisdom and run an actual set of books showing income and honest expenses...and deposit 90% of the profit into the bank....AND, run it like a JOB...set up a responsible work schedule and adhere to it, do the menial tasks (cleaning up the driveway when you are done cutting your stock)....

[curtis rosche]

im not sure what store, theres a smc member thats towards phili, that is arranging it for me, great guy he is.

[curtis rosche]

i asked my stepdad about getting a lathe through trading wood, instead of money. he said o.k. so, as long as the store wants to trade i will then have a rikon. my stepdad even offered to through in some of his #1 oak and cherry, if they want more than burls. thanks for the input!. so now i can turn all summerlong, after work of course, i will also go back to the orchard and get some more apple burls for you guys if you want some.

[Jim Underwood]

Great Curtis. Glad to see it. Hope it all turns out.

(By the way, take a look at the video of the Red Oak "straw": http://www.youtube.com/v/qvSj11vwg58 )

[Skip Spaulding]

Sounds good Curtis, don't forget there are turning tools, grinder, chucks and the vortex gets stronger and stronger. Good luck, I'm sure You'll do fine. Have fun and be safe.

[Dennis Puskar]

Glad to hear things are working out for you, have fun.

Dennis

[Gordon Seto]

May be change your attitude, show more respect to your step dad. Show him you are more mature and treat the tools well. Win him over so you don't have to tie down your resource to duplicate what your step dad already has. Offer yours for him to play with. Partner with him to buy new tools. Set your ego aside, pretend you don't know it all and let him win some. It never hurts to be a little humble. It is almost impossible for one side to win the war and all of the battles and still maintain harmony on both sides.

[curtis rosche]

well put gordon

[Reed Gray]

Curtis,
Sounds like you have 30 or more step dads here.
robo hippy

[curtis rosche]

cool,,,, so which one wants to sign my drivers permit?:D