Planer vs Jointer: Which do I need, or both?

[Kevin Slankard]

I've been around woodworking for a few years now. I've finally gotten to a point where I think I could use a jointer or planer. But, I have a few questions to ask before I make my purchase:

1. A planer is used to take thickness from the board. Generally this is done on the face of the board. True?

2. A jointer is used to make to sides parallel to each other. True

Wouldn't a planer be able to do the same thing as the jointer, as long as the board would feed into the machine? And, wouldn't the jointer be able to do the same thing as long as the face of the board was not to wide that the knives wouldn't get the whole face?

I'm sure its more complicated than this, but this is how my simple mind sees it. If a few of my assumptions are correct, I'm leaning towards the planer. Rigid and DeWalt both have a few options around the 400-500 dollar mark. I've searched for planer on here and found several posts about some users getting some nice discounts lately.

Thanks

Kevin

[Tim Byars]

Personally (that is, speaking as a mostly ignorant newbie), I got a lot of orientation to this issue first of all by cruising through all the planer vs. jointer threads on here, but visually by watching the "Jointer's Jumping" episode (no. 6) on the Wood Whisperer's site.

FWIW

[Gary Breckenridge]

:cool:A jointer is mostly used to put a straight edge on a board so that it will be 90 degrees to the next side of the board. :cool:I would go with a jointer. Most of the basic projects that people make can use store bought 3/4" lumber. I mill a bit of lumber and sometimes work in 5/8 and 1/2". I bought a planer years after I bought a jointer and use the planer about 1/3 as often as the jointer.:cool: Base your decision on what materials you can buy and what you make.:cool:

[Dan Barr]

well,

as for planing the face on a jointer. You can not, in theory, "thickness" a board on a jointer. all you can do is make the face flat and true. there is nothing above the board when it is passing through a jointer that will register the top of the board and keep the thickness consistent as material is removed by the blades.

As for jointing on a planer, since the top of the board is registered, you'll actually be thicknessing the edge and your edges will not come out perfectly flat. (if the board is slightly curved, it will stay that way to an extent even on the edge) Also, you will be restricted to 6 inches for most common planers and you will have the added difficulty of trying to keep the edge square while it passes through the planer. You'll never be able to joint a board larger than 6" in most planers. Even if you went way out and got a planer capable of 12" you would still be restircted to 12". then you would be jointing by hand with a plane.

You should think about the work that you do. if you work with mostly S2S, S3S, OR S4S (surfaced boards that come with 2, 3 or 4 faces already planed) then all you will "need" is a good jointer. to contrast, if you work with mostly rough cut lumber, then you will find yourself wanting both or the planer as a minimum.

I work with mostly S2S. Both faces are planed and only the edges are rough. i like my jointer, but have actually been using it less and less lately. i tend to joint boards with my jointer plane because holding a big board and moving it over the jointer is a pain. I can whip out the jointer plane in a second and make a few passes in the same amount of time it takes me to turn on the jointer, turn on the dust collector, and check the fence for square and adjust it if need be. its easier by far to throw the board in the vise on the workbench and joint the edge with the plane. the exceptions are when im working with lots of grain changes, or i have a lot of lumber to mill. then i'll gladly fire up the jointer.

I design things with the board's dimensions in mind. i dont incorporate dimensions that need surfaces that i cant buy pre-cut for the most part. I avoid needing a planer this way. once i have a board milled, im going to run over it with a smoother plane some time during the project anyway. So, i also dont need a planer for "finishing" any surfaces.

if you design using pre-cut dimensions; 3/4", 4/4", 5/4", 6/4", 7/4", 8/4", and so on, you can avoid needing the planer. also, if you dont mind hand planes and you have a good jointer plane, then you can also get by just fine without a jointer. I'll sell you my Grizzly 6" right now by the way. (im in colorado springs, Colorado)

ciao,

dan

[Johnny Kleso]

You can use a No5 Hand Plane and Planner to finish wood pretty well with a rip tool for TS

The hand plane you knock your higs down on one side and run the trued side down trew your planner..

Either than or build a Planner Sled

[Kevin Slankard]

Thanks for the quick responses. I revised my search from just "planer" to "planer vs jointer" and found many more helpful posts. I also checked out the woodwhisper's video which gave me even more ideas.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I've been working wood for years and never owned a jointer (have used one several times though), because I don't want to give up the space for one. I have a nice Bedrock #603 hand jointer that I use along with a good set of bench clamps to put a straight edge on a board when I need one, then use a good rip blade on the table saw to true up the opposite edge and then use the planer to clean up the top and bottom. If the board is excessively warped I either don't use it or true it up with a scrub plane.

As long as you aren't pressed for time, you can get away without a jointer just fine. I've made several doors and other pieces that rely on good jointed edges and they came out square and stayed that way. You just need to exercise some skill.

However, hand planing, scraping, and sanding a board to a consistent thickness is a real pain in the neck, and I would give up my table saw before I'd give up my 13" planer.

[Jim Becker]

Jointer: Flatten one face of a board and straighten and edge while making it perpendicular to said flattened face

Thickness Planer: Thickness board indexed on previously flattened face

If you can only buy one, buy the thickness planer. A jointer is only useful for edges if you don't have a thickness planer to compliment it.

[Mike Gager]

well i was in the same boat recently trying to decide which to buy. here is my experience

researched everything i could to figure out which to get first. decided to get a planer first because i supposidly could use a sled fixture to flaten one side and then use the planer without the sled to paralell the other side. once thats done i could use my router to jooint the edge

however in the real world it wasnt that easy, at least for me. the sled takes a long time to set up properly and i still wasnt getting the results i wanted and trying to joint a straight edge with my router was taking way to long as well.

i ended up going back to the store and buying a jointer so now i have both and its much easier to first joint the face and then 1 edge flat then run it through the planer to get the opposit face parallel then rip to width on the table saw. what took me 30 minutes using the jointer and router now takes about 3 or 4 minutes

again your results may vary but i would get both if possible

i got a delta planer for $197 and a ridgid jointer for $359

[James Carmichael]

Ideally, both. But, once again, Mr. Becker is correct, planer if you can only have one.

[George Sanders]

For a long time I had neither. Only option for me was to buy dimensioned, preplaned lumber. Very expensive. I happened upon something called a jointer clamp. You take one straight board and attach the clamps. Then you attach the board to be straightened to the other side of the clamps. Run the good board through your table saw against the rip fence. Now take off the clamps and the straight board. Then flip the board you just put a straight edge on and run it through the saw again. The result is 2 parallel sides. The clamps cost about $15 and do a pretty good job. I use my set to true up rough cut lumber from the sawmill before I run it over my jointer. This saves a lot of time and blade wear on the jointer.

[John Thompson]

If you have and can use hand planes.. you don't have to have either. If you don't, you really need both if you work with a wide range of prepped or un-prepped stock coming into your shop. I have hand planes and use them.. I also have a 8" jointer and 20" planer and use them.

Frankly.. I wouldn't give up any of the above as they all get the call on every project as they all have their respective place in my pecking order. But.. if I did not have them or use hand planes and was in your position.. I would go planer first but with the thought that the others would follow when budget allowed.

Sarge..

[Adam Cavaliere]

I was in your boat not too long ago.

I went with a jointer first because I wanted to ensure I had proper joints for glue ups and other issues I was running into. I realized very quickly that if I wanted to get anything done well I had to have both. I ended up picking up a planer not too long after the jointer.

I now use both and am really happy I can dimension boards rather easily now.

I ended up picking up a Steel City 6" jointer and a Steel City 13" planer.

Best of luck in your decision.

[Peter Quadarella]

1. True
2. False - A jointer does not make 2 sides parallel to each other, a planer does that. The jointer will just make one side flat.

I have a planer but not a jointer. Lately I have been using hand planes to rougly flatten wood. Once that's done I can run it through the planer to finish flattening. You can also build a sled and put the wood on that to perform initial flattening. Edges can be flattened quickly with hand planes or routers.

Doing the work of a power thickness planer without owning one is extremely time consuming and not easy. Doing the work of a power jointer without owning one is not as difficult, and there are other powered options.

Of course, having a powered jointer is a huge convenience though, and is quite handy to have.

[Chris Padilla]

I have a MM jointer/planer. The Europeans like to call a jointer a planer. They also like to call a planer a thicknesser. I like the European's verbage versus what we use here in the US.

A jointer (planer) can do two things:

(1) make one face of a board flat, often called face planing (make a face of the board coplanar)

(2) referencing that flat face on the jointer, it can also make an edge a fixed angle to that previosly milled flat face--typically that will be 90 degrees.

A planer (thicknesser) does one thing:

(1) makes one face of a board a uniform thickness to the referenced face of a board or in other words, it makes it coplanar to the referenced face.

[Paul Simmel]

A jointer and planer are essentially one tool joined at the hip. You really need them both.

>>> 2. A jointer is used to make to sides parallel to each other. True

Wrong. It is used to make one side of a board flat, and then the next 90 degree side flat if you want to. That means the opposing side/s (after jointing) will be anything but “parallel”.

The jointer accomplishes three things:

a)Flattens one side of a board (twisted, crooked, crowned)
b)Using the newly flattened side as a reference, held against a 90-degree fence, flatten a second non-parallel edge
c)Gives you *one* square side of the board

Off the newly jointed, squared edges, a thickness planer is then used to mill the board dimensionally parallel.

All the hand planes and table saws in the world will not give you the above result.

[Peter Quadarella]

You absolutely can do that with hand planes - how do you think people did it before jointers/planers existed?

The job of the planer is a lot more work to duplicate by hand though.

[Rob Will]

Kevin,
I'll keep this short.
If you can afford it and have the space, you need a jointer the same width as your planer.
I would recommend that you purchase a really wide jointer first because planers are all relatively wide - and easy to come by.

Dig down deep and get the jointer first.

If you can't face joint a wide board, you usually can't use it.

Rob

[Kevin Slankard]

The only thing keeping me from going with a jointer first is the width of boards (of the one I can afford) it will accept. I just know, as soon as I get a 6" jointer, I'll have a 8 or 10" board. Now I'm stuck. But, thinking of using a planer, seems like I'll have more options, even though I might have to use jigs, sleds, etc..... I do see where having both would be the ultimate, but for now, it only can be one.

Jointer first guys: If I do have a 6" jointer and a 8" board, after I get one side flat, where do I go from there? What would you have to do next to get the board perfect on all 4 sides?

Planer guys: Same scenario, 8" board, how would you go about getting one side flat if you didn't have a jointer? What seems to work best? How well does the "sled" work?

This is a tough one. I see both sides of the fence on this one. I can see how each group is aproaching my dilema. I just need to really think about which is more important. The only thing is getting me is the max width a jointer can joint.

Last, using the sled, with a planer you can "joint" a board correct? I hope joint is the proper terminology.

Thanks again guys/gals

Kevin

[Paul Simmel]

You absolutely can do that with hand planes - how do you think people did it before jointers/planers existed?

The job of the planer is a lot more work to duplicate by hand though.

No offense to the hand plane, or to those using them, but my response was referring to the consistency as measured in thousandths across the entire length of the board (or thousands of boards). IMO, it's not going to happen without machinery, no matter how good one is (or was) with a hand plane. It's a little misleading to say otherwise, IMO.. though I don't doubt there are very skilled people who may approximate similar results.

[Peter Quadarella]

Yes, with a sled you can "joint" (face plane) the board. Actually, all you need to do is put the board on something that will keep it from rocking around (or just roughly flatten it).

If you only have a jointer, there is no easy way to do what a thickness planer can do. I honestly can't see the point in only having a jointer. You'd never have wood with coplaner sides. (Unless you went totally neander.)

Edit: Re: Machined planing or hand planing - I believe the accuracy of either to be comparable. In fact, I believe many hobby lunchbox planers do not have as repeatable accuracy as an average hand planer has. Things like wixey might even the playing field.

[Paul Simmel]

Keven,

You asked... one or the other, or both.

In the end, you are going to find that these two tools are not inseparable and vitally dependent on one another.

You could use a sled to get a relatively flat side, then flip it over and run the board through. But it will never be as flat as that which a jointer will produce. And you will not be able to edge-joint on a sled.

There will be those who tell you that you can get a straight edge from ripping on a TS. No way could this edge be compared to one which was jointed. The reason being that wood moves after it is cut (ripped). When you joint and plane, you are flipping pieces back and forth to equalize stresses. Plus, MANY times a piece needs to be re jointed after planing, to get it "straight" again... then re plane for final thickness. The only way to accomplish the same with a TS would be to send it through MANY times, shaving off tinny slices at a time, flipping back and forth... a waste of time and utterly dangerous.

I'm answering your question, and trying to stick to the issue as is was presented.

[Harley Reasons]

The Big Orange Box Store has the tool sale going on right now. I picked up a Ridgid Jointer yesterday for $339.00. Reg price was $399. less $60 sales discount. Got it assembled tonight and I'm gonna like it. Plus the Ridgid has the lifetime service agreement (Free parts, free service for the rest of your life). Be warned the planner comes in a box that weighs 201 lbs so it won't fit in your trunk. Took about 3 hrs to assemble.

[Dan Barr]

im sorry,

but were talking about wood here. jointing a board with a plane is and has been working for hundreds of years. if you want to be really accurate about jointing perfectly square with a plane, then you can clamp a fence to the plane. you can even put a rabbet in the fence to accept the part of the plane without any blade protruding. then you can joint perfect 90 degree edges all day long ... by hand. even to the thousandth.

ciao,

dan

[Matt Benton]

Build a planer sled and be done with it. I can face joint boards up to 12" wide (would be 20"+ with a bigger planer) and get sufficiently straight edges from the table saw.

I'm having a really hard time justifying a large, heavy, relatively expensive tool to replace the sled that cost me 1 hour of time and virtually no cost...

[Jesse Cloud]

Go for both. Yeah you can do it all with handtools - if you have lots of time and are highly skilled. Yeah you can make a planer sled and fiddle with that to get it kinda flat. But if you really want to improve your joinery, then spend the time on developing your skills with the right tools, rather than developing work arounds that you will probably toss in a few months or years.

My two cents. I just wish I had got the right tools sooner and wasn't trying to learn how to do the basics this late in my life....

[Steven Wilson]

Kevin, to four square stock you need the capability to;

1) make a face flat (face jointing or face planing)
2) make an edge flat and perpendicular (edge jointing)
3) make a face flat and coplanar to the reference face (thickness planing)
4) make an edge flat, perpendicular, and coplanar to the reference edge (riping)

All four operations can be done by hand tools, power tools, or a combination. For me the easiest is to use a power planer to thickness boards and a jointer plane ( i.e. a Stanley #7 w/ a Stanley #386 jointer fence) to flaten one face and square one edge. After that you can rip to width with the table saw (or use a planer which can be fun). Face jointing (face planing) with a sled and a planer only works for boards that are very slightly bowed and/or twisted. Anything more pronounced and it's much better to use a jointer (plane or powered).

So, I would buy a planer first and at least a jointer plane, then as space and/or money allow pick up a jointer. BTW, if you remove the guard on a jointer you can run your stock twice to handle stock twice as wide as your jointer width. This will work for roughing, you'll still need to knock down a slight ridge with a jointer plane or skip plane that surface through a planer.

[Peter Quinn]

Other than in the case of using some serious reaction wood you can definitely rip (joint) one edge straight (enough for most practical wood working) using a table saw, then rip the other parallel. I have seen two successful methods for jointing on a table saw which I won't describe here to save on words, but I have used them and can assure you they work. A good skill saw can perform similar operations when necessary.

That said I typically only resort to these methods for preparing rough stock for milling. I gladly pay the fee when possible to have at least one edge of my stock ripped straight at the lumber yard, but occasionally have worked with air dried rough lumber given to me by a friend, thus these methods become my best option.

While most creative wood working types will rise to the challenging of devising or describing methods to prepare stock for use with the tools at hand, the quickest and least painful method IMHO is with a modern motorized jointer and planer in combination. Any move away from that will require more time and effort on your part, so you must decide what is your budget and where your energies are best spent. You can choose to joint and thickness your material with hand planes, winding sticks and a good set of calipers, which will take days, or you can use a jointer and thickness planer, which will take minutes. Other methods fall in between.

The question of what each machine does has been covered, and methods to accomplish these tasks otherwise have been offered. To the question of which should you get (planer, jointer, both) that really depends on you: what you enjoy doing (quick simple accomplishment vrs hand tools vrs devising creative work arounds), what wood you will be using, the time and budget you have available for wood working (as well as the space), etc.

If you are doing this for fun, remember to pick a method you enjoy and can afford.

[Chris Padilla]

If you are doing this for fun, remember to pick a method you enjoy and can afford.

And there ya go! Well said, Peter. Lottsa ways to "skin this cat" or "mill wood". :)

I'd also add that it isn't necessarily the tool...it is how the tool is used! :D

To that end, I bit the bullet and dropped a load on a Minimax FS41-Elite Jointer/Planer combo machine. That sucker is a 16" wide aircraft carrier and I personally feel that I'll never need to look any further than this. Sure, a 20" monster might've been nicer but I think this one will carry me for the rest of my life jeeeeeeest fine!! :D