PDA

View Full Version : Marketing / Advertising materials



Brent Vander Weil
04-19-2008, 8:13 PM
Anyone have what you consider to be a fairly effective printed material used to advertise & market products and services that you offer at your laser shop?

Craig Hogarth
04-19-2008, 9:04 PM
What have you tried so far Brent? We've done probably 4 dozen different flyers or so and none have been effective thus far. We've done coupons, specials, and general info, but nothing comes back.

I've considered using the jds catalogs, but fear that may be a waste of money.

Stephen Beckham
04-19-2008, 9:34 PM
I keep a pack of JDS catalogs in the store to hand out to new customers that represent organizations (gov offices, ball associations, firms etc...) I don't just give them out to every customer. Last I checked they're just $.25 each and that's an easy investment.

I've cut way back on advertisement and really depend mostly on the word of mouth - great for a small town. I also do a lot of community work at great rates. That spreads the word more than I could ever expect in a newspaper or flyer.

The only other thing is my web site is on everything. I make 1/2" X 1" labels out of laser thins that go on everything.

Each market is going to be different - each type of client or customer will as well. I think the greatest advice I wish I had gotten early on would be not to place so much $$$ in one area - spread it out in small amounts.

Use measuring tools. If you advertise in three papers at once, how do you know if you got your money's worth? Maybe only one ad was worth it and the other two were bust! Try one medium at a time to see what response you get to it. Make sure to put things in there that can be counted 'bring this ad in for 15% discount' will give an immediate count by how many copies of the ad you get.

If you have a web site - use a counter. Put a feeler out there an watch the web hits for the week then move on to another and re-count the hits.

Jump into advertising jobs that you know will get air time or face time - bridal editions always get great coverage in Spring time. School appreciation inserts around Graduation always get good coverage. Big festivals or fairs may get you into other markets...

One other good one is asking local papers if they have Remnant Ads available. They're usually about 1/3rd the normal rate, but get put in great places to be used as filler for the paper. I was allowed to set my monthly max limit - approved 8 different ads in different shapes and sizes - they ran them at their need at my savings...

Keep tabs on your counting tools and watch other ads - study them to see what they are doing - especially if you have any local competition...

Darren Null
04-19-2008, 9:39 PM
Not printed exactly, but I take the scraps and leftover pieces from jobs and burn business cards on them...which i then distribute to anyone I meet. I've given away cards made of wood, acrylic, stones from the beach...allsorts.

It's contact details and a mini product demonstration rolled into one and I've picked up quite a few bits and pieces doing this.

Mike Null
04-19-2008, 9:41 PM
Brent

This has been a topic of several posts here and on other engraving forums. The concensus has been that print media is generally ineffective.

For most of us who are in the engraving business our product is our service. It is usually not something that can be promoted with print advertising. We generally serve our customers on an "occasion" and with some form of personalization.

We are more like a plumber, dentist or veterinarian in that they come looking for us when they need something.

Some like the yellow pages but in today's world more and more are finding the internet the place to be.

Craig Hogarth
04-20-2008, 1:39 AM
Use measuring tools. If you advertise in three papers at once, how do you know if you got your money's worth? Maybe only one ad was worth it and the other two were bust! Try one medium at a time to see what response you get to it. Make sure to put things in there that can be counted 'bring this ad in for 15% discount' will give an immediate count by how many copies of the ad you get.

Newsprint requires consistency. Very rarely will you see an immediate return and coupons are a waste of valuable space.

I do one weekly advertisement in 3 papers, costs me $165 weekly. I also run 2 color biweekly ads in two of the papers. I pay $160 in one paper and $75 in the other. The color ads are fairly inexpensive since a full page of color adds shared by other businesses.

Our name is getting known now, primarily due to consistently getting our name out there. We get a lot of people who don't know where they heard of us and we're assuming it's newsprint, since we don't advertise anywhere else. We also get about 8 to 10 calls a week asking for directions to our store. Considering we didn't make the 2008 phonebook in time and all flyers we make and google/yahoo local has a map, we're also assuming it's newsprint.

My website also gets about 70 hits on print days vs the 5 to 10 we get normally.

Newsprint works. It just takes patience.

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 8:04 AM
Craig

For half that amount of money you could have a really powerful website with national reach.

Stephen Beckham
04-20-2008, 8:26 AM
Craig - don't disagree with your comments, but the point was to put a measuring tool in the ad. If you had change the ad in the different papers - you could add comments like "Be sure to ask for Craig" in one and then the other with "Tell them John sent you for a discount!" or your wife's name or any other sales person.

If no one ever comes in and says John sent me, you might want to re-evaluate how much coverage your actually getting in that paper. Meanwhile - if you keep getting lots of people asking for Craig - increase your ad strength in that paper.

I agree with the fact that no-body cuts out an ad to bring it in to the store for a discount.

I've heard that adding a "Click here to print a coupon" on a web site might bring in a customer or two - never took that step myself...

Craig Hogarth
04-20-2008, 8:49 AM
It would take far more than that to advertise nationally. I would love to make an attempt at a national internet marketing campaign, but it's much more expensive than most people realize. Currently, there's an 85 cent CPC to attain the top 3 spot in a google sponsor search which is more than what I'm paying now using newsprint to direct traffic to my website and I have less competition. I met with a few web designers and the cost of building an attractive and functional website was well over 10k. I was able to eliminate a lot of features bringing it to under 5k, but I couldn't see converting many sales with the lesser website.

Google and Yahoo have changed a lot over the past few years. There was a time when you could just hammer away at reciprocal links and link farms to get a first page ranking, but those hold absolutely no weight in search engine algorithms anymore. SEO's become pretty much a full time job and I just don't have the time and money to move forward with it.

Craig Hogarth
04-20-2008, 9:23 AM
Stephen, we've tried the measuring tools you mentioned, but like Mike said, people just don't bring in the coupons. Right now, I'm doing (2) 4 inch ads and (1) 6 inch ad. Coupons need to be at least 2 inches to be noticeable, so the coupons would cost us about $75 or so and reduce advertising space. We tried the "mention you saw us in...." but people don't think about it when then come in.

Honestly, I don't know if it's the ads that's driving our business or not. The only way to know for sure would be to eliminate the advertising, but I don't consider it worth the risk.

Doug Griffith
04-20-2008, 9:40 AM
Brent
Some like the yellow pages but in today's world more and more are finding the internet the place to be.

I agree 100%. This is why search engine optimization is so important.

A current off topic thread covers this:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=81034

One of the best things you can do with web marketing is to monitor your referrers daily. If you get hits from a third party, go there and promote yourself. Also use this information to see how campaigns are working. It helps you put resources where they work best.

Cheers

David Fairfield
04-20-2008, 9:45 AM
Engraving is one thing, if you are a general engraving/cutting operation, what others have said here makes perfect sense.

But if you're producing a particular type of product, that's another. If you are in parts manufacturing, as I am, print media works and is worth the investment if you choose the right publication for your audience.

I've found the internet to be too saturated to do me any good. Haven't tried any of the commercial "traffic generators" to improve my Google status. That might work, but I don't want to gamble the money on something I don't fully comprehend.

Has anyone else tried it?

Dave

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 11:08 AM
Craig

I beg to differ. My web site costs $10.95 per month and I have customers from 40 states. I spent a couple of thousand getting it designed and every month I am thankful for spending the money.

I do not use PPC or SEO's.

I stopped all print advertising several years ago and will never do it again.

Last week I bid on 5,000 t-shirts from my web site. (that will be my biggest order since I've been in business, if I get it)

Brent Vander Weil
04-20-2008, 11:23 AM
THnanks a bunch for the awesome discussion... I have a somewhat unique situation in that I have joined forces with a friend in a local sign shop. I am not at a point where I can afford to break out on my own yet, so I needed a job too... One of my good customers at a sign shop that I was doing acrylic leter cutting for asked me to come to work in his shop full time and I can sell anything I want through there with a small markup for him. This is all a new thing and we maitain two seperate companies and are considering combining all of our equipment in one location at som e point. So that is where I am in the grand buiness venture... appreciate everyone who provides tips and suggestions it really helps.

Craig Hogarth
04-20-2008, 3:47 PM
Mike, well, you definitely did something right a while ago. I noticed you were #2 for St Louis Engraving, very good for such a large city.

I have the #1 spot when searching for engraving in my city, but my city has about 50k people and the website is my wife's myspace account :o I have yet to find where my website ranks.

Brent, I looked at doing that with a local signage/embroidery shop, but I wanted guarantee that I would remain there for 3 years and they wouldn't give that to me. Also, make sure that you get enough signage and space that customers will be able to differentiate between you and the sign shop.

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 6:04 PM
Craig

I don't want to belabor the point but I actually spent less than $2000 and it was just slightly over two years ago though I have had a site for nearly 10 years. (one of those do-it-yourself things that never got hits)

I am a one man shop working in my basement and know at least 5 other shops who have much greater volume than I. All are store fronts who have been established for many years but my business keeps growing and the growth is from the web site. They don't know I'm here since so much of my business is out of state.

If I could force myself to get to work on it my site could be much better and more effective. That's something many do not understand--a web designer can't do your site for you. You have to give him all the ingredients then he can convert it to something that works. It takes more work on your part than his.

The best thing I did was to find a good designer. I looked at a lot of sites and called several designers. I was looking at one of my customers sites when I saw work that I liked and contacted their designer.

Craig Hogarth
04-20-2008, 6:18 PM
Mike, do you know how they're finding your website? Are you linked on other sites or do you have any keywords that give you a page on ranking?

I've been working on my new site for the past two weeks an hope to publish it on Tuesday. I'd love to make an attempt at an SEO campaign, but when I look at the websites of those who have page one rankings with generic keywords, I don't think I'd be able to compete without a fully functional webstore.

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 7:29 PM
Craig

The secret has to do with text. You must anticipate the searcher's topic or words and cover them in your copy and meta tags. For my site I write all the copy and my web guy takes it from there.

My pet peeve is seeing these home made sites full of all kinds of pictures but no text. Search engines do not see pictures.

When you write your text it should be inclusive and repetitive. In brief, don't just say engraving, say engraved tags, engraved signs, engraved gifts (then be specific as to what gifts. Your index page should carry a thorough profile using as much text and description as possible.

For example try not to assume the searcher knows what "plastic" is; describe it and all it's flavors. And waht you can do with it.

Look at other sites for ideas and they don't necessarily have to be engraving sites. Look at suppliers sites to see what you can glean from them.

There is one site linked to mine as a service to a customer but there are no others. I link to Tropar/Airflyte for their catalog.

I would like to have links but don't want to link to just any site. I will only do so if I think it can boost my site. (I have had a couple of customers want to link and have not responded to it.)

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 7:41 PM
Craig

I choose to direct my business more to commercial/industrial type accounts so a web store is of no real interest to me. (I do not want retail business though now and then I get some)

I tried 10 years ago to make it with FrontPage but I got no hits. I tried targeted print advertising but got no hits. But when I went to a pro designed site my business doubled the first year and has increased ever since.

Doug Griffith
04-20-2008, 8:14 PM
Mike, do you know how they're finding your website? Are you linked on other sites or do you have any keywords that give you a page on ranking?

Take a look at Google Analytics. All sorts of free marketing tools for your website.

Doug

Mike Null
04-20-2008, 8:59 PM
Craig

I use Yahoo as my web host and they provide more stats than I know how to deal with.

As Doug points out there are a number of free analytical services available.

Doug, I notice in your sig that we're in your wheelhouse. What can you add in terms of building a web site?

Doug Griffith
04-21-2008, 10:52 AM
Craig
Doug, I notice in your sig that we're in your wheelhouse. What can you add in terms of building a web site?

Your right Mike, I walk that world every day. Lasering is not my primary business but used for prototyping and proprietary products.

My website building suggestions in order of pro level for a business.

1) fully dynamic with administrative backend. Most expense upfront but will allow content to be managed without assistance of a webmaster. Can be tied to inventory system. As many bells and whistles that you can afford. SEO friendly. Very pro.

2) static HTML website designed by a pro. Less upfront expense but the webmaster will be needed for changes (at an expense). SEO friendly. Semi pro.

3) website in a box. Requires some knowlege of coding and more time than you'd think to develop. Usually template based. Superficially pro.

4) website from scratch using a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) editor. Same as website in a box with the addition of learning the WYSIWYG software. Can take years to get it where it's pro.

5) hosted website tool. Log in and build a website. Very little design flexibility. There may even be banner requirements, etc... Not very pro.

6) do it from scratch. Only if you have a lot of time and patience.

7) all Flash. Notice this is way down the list for a business.

8) one big image per page. I've actually seen this done.

9) black background with blinking text.

Ecommerce is a whole different animal and can be anything from being tightly integrated in the website to linking to an external service.

It all really boils down to development time vs expense vs return.

If going with a professional web developer, take the following into account:
1) Do you own the code and is it portable? (ie. can you take it to another host if you wish)
2) What language is it written in? Not all languages run on all servers. Some are obscure and will require modules, etc...
3) What is the hourly update/maintenance charge and is there a minimum?
4) What will the turn around time be for changes?
5) Do you have FTP access to make minor text changes? Sometimes all you need to change is a sentence which doesn't require any code tweaking.
6) Is any proprietary code tied to it? (ie. you own the code but not the shopping cart)

Also, once your pro website is finished, download the entire thing to disk using a website scraper/dumper. View on as many platforms/browsers as possible to check for compatability before calling it done. Have your friends look as well.

I'm sure there's much more. Mitchel can probably chime in.

Cheers,
Doug