Saw Stop in the High Schools

[Peter Quinn]

My high school age niece is staying with me for her spring break presently and wanted a tour of my wood shop. She told me her boyfriend takes wood shop in school and that they just got some new "Saw thingy" that will stop the blade and keep kids from cutting off fingers!

I went to the same school and remember a couple of old rockwell unisaws being in use while I was there. Glad to hear that in this age of reduced budgets some schools are maintaining their programs and upgrading to the saw stop. I can't think of a better place to have one in use.

Wondering if others have heard of local schools with wood shop using the saw stop? I for one will gladly take a property tax increase for that purchase.

[Jim Becker]

If there ever was a most ideal environment for this particular technology, schools are the place. I'm glad to hear that "your" school moved in that direction when they refreshed their equipment.

[Joe Meazle]

My brother is a an Agri teacher and they got one last year for their shop. He is still very cautious about letting students use the table saw.

[nate maker]

One of my friends owns Acoustic Edge Institure, which is a car audio school, and they just switched to the sawstop. They previously had a unisaw. I believe he told me his saving in insurance would offset the cost of the saw.

[Brian Penning]

I bet that there will be more brake firings at schools than anywhere else.
Kids will love setting them off.
Er...ahem...not that I would've done it myself at that age of course.

[Peter Quinn]

That's funny...my niece told me her boyfriend was dyeing to put a hot dog into the blade to see if the brake works! She said the shop teacher joked that if anyone wanted to test it he'd have to use his finger! So far no takers.

[Brian W Evans]

I'm a teacher (social studies - not woodshop) and our school got a sawstop at the beginning of this year. The principal's and shop teacher's rationale to the school board was that it would be irresponsible not to have one now that the technology is available.

[Randal Stevenson]

My high school age niece is staying with me for her spring break presently and wanted a tour of my wood shop. She told me her boyfriend takes wood shop in school and that they just got some new "Saw thingy" that will stop the blade and keep kids from cutting off fingers!

I went to the same school and remember a couple of old rockwell unisaws being in use while I was there. Glad to hear that in this age of reduced budgets some schools are maintaining their programs and upgrading to the saw stop. I can't think of a better place to have one in use.

Wondering if others have heard of local schools with wood shop using the saw stop? I for one will gladly take a property tax increase for that purchase.


If there ever was a most ideal environment for this particular technology, schools are the place. I'm glad to hear that "your" school moved in that direction when they refreshed their equipment.


I bet that there will be more brake firings at schools than anywhere else.
Kids will love setting them off.
Er...ahem...not that I would've done it myself at that age of course.

I have heard a couple of stories about them in school, including one where the parents GLADLY came in to pay for the new blade and brake (seems to be a common thing in school programs. You trip it, you bought it), after their son had what would have been a sever.
Considering they can sell their old equipment, less lawyer bills and cheaper insurance, this would actually cause either lower taxes, or allow them to go to OTHER NEEDED area's of the school, after initial purchase (a good thing).
A few years back, Dino Markopolous was mentoring in a school program (read on another board when he first joined), Guided circular saw systems (any brand), would also be a safer method, to allow kids to learn skills (and proper safety techniques) so when they become homeowners, they are in part ready.
They say the economy is downturning (I see mixed), THIS is the time, the DIYER, fix/restore/reuse, really comes into play, and should be a basic skill.

[J. Z. Guest]

I hope they pull the SawStop label off of it, so the kids don't get into bad habits. If they don't, I hope they remind the kids that the danger of kickback is still there and very real.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I hope they pull the SawStop label off of it, so the kids don't get into bad habits. If they don't, I hope they remind the kids that the danger of kickback is still there and very real.

This is a great point. So many people seem to think that using a SawStop means you can't get hurt. Let's hope that students don't get to comfortable and decide they don't need the splitter/blade guard. We have heard from a lot more people on this forum that have been injured by kickbacks than by amputations. And even a splitter/riving knife/blade guard won't stop all kickbacks. I like the EZ Smart solution better...Safer and less expensive. But a SawStop is a big step in the right direction as long as no students don't start thinking that they can't get seriously hurt pretty easily.

Bruce

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

this would actually cause either lower taxes,

HAHAHAHAHAHA.......oh, I'm sorry, was that my outside voice? ;) around here, towns tend to take away services or make you start paying added fees for them (for example - charging added fees for curbside trash pickup) but taxes never seem to go down. End of tax rant...

for the Sawstop in the school. I think it's a great idea - but I'd like them to still teach kids the dangers that still exist (kickback, for example). And if a kid is willing to 'test' it, on his hand or on a hot dog - well, he better get used to cutting with a hand saw, because he should be banned from the TS.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.......oh, I'm sorry, was that my outside voice? ;) around here, towns tend to take away services or make you start paying added fees for them (for example - charging added fees for curbside trash pickup) but taxes never seem to go down. End of tax rant...


;)When you say "around here" you mean America don't you?

Having worked in schools... any attempt to do the right thing is good.

[Ben Rafael]

When I had woodshop the teacher would not allow any students to use any power tools except the drill press because he did not want any major injury. Everything we did by hand, which is truly a big pain in the neck when you only have about 35 minutes a day to do work. Between roll call and the lesson and clean up there is very little time. Cant say I blame him though, most of the kids in my class were fools and could have cut off their own heads, present company excepted.:D

[Roland Chung]

When I had woodshop the teacher would not allow any students to use any power tools except the drill press because he did not want any major injury. Everything we did by hand, which is truly a big pain in the neck when you only have about 35 minutes a day to do work. Between roll call and the lesson and clean up there is very little time. Cant say I blame him though, most of the kids in my class were fools and could have cut off their own heads, present company excepted.:D

Funny you should mention the drill press as the only tool your shop teacher would allow students to use. I almost cut my head off when I tried to drill a larger hole in some stainless steel scuba diving tank bands. Improperly clamped, when the metal snagged, the bands "opened up" like a large propeller narrowly missing my throat. Maybe if I had been properly instructed on the use of the drill press, I could have avoided this.

We all stayed away from the drill press because of that picture that I remember hanging next to it. It was a picture of some hair and bits of bloody scalp wrapped around a drill bit attached to the drill press. One picture is worth a thousand words!

[David DeCristoforo]

There's an interesting letter in the current issue of Woodshop News from a HS shop teacher regarding the SS. Basically he is saying that in his entire 28 year teaching career he only had one "incident". But since changing over to the SS he has had six "activations" leading him to believe that the SS "lulls" students into something of a "false sense of security".

You want a "humorous shop teacher anecdote"? A good friend of my dad's was a shop teacher. He was on his way to a wedding and he was giving the happy couple a turned bowl for a gift. He "just had to put some finishing touches" on it and a coat of oil finish so he figured he could just swing by the shop on his way... it would only take a few minutes. But unfortunately, he neglected to follow the "no loose clothing" rule and his tie got snagged in the lathe. The tie got "sucked up" pulling his face down onto the spinning bowl and choking him. He could not reach the switch but just before he passed out from lack of oxygen, he remembered the skew chisel he had in his hand and he managed to sever the tie. So, he made it to the wedding but with a nasty burn mark on his face, a cut on his neck from the skew and no tie.....

[Thomas S Stockton]

In my HS shop class we could use all the tools but the planer and maybe the shaper, don't remember exactly. In the three years I was there the only person who got hurt bad enough to go to the doctor was the teacher himself.
Tom

[Ben Rafael]

The drill press in our shop ran at about 50 rpm, no kidding, no way anyone could get severely injured on it.
Metal shop was another story: We had lathes, blow torches, all kinds of welders, forges... A disaster waiting to happen, but nothing happened.

[Mike Cutler]

I hope they pull the SawStop label off of it, so the kids don't get into bad habits. If they don't, I hope they remind the kids that the danger of kickback is still there and very real.

Ya' know. of all the "lesson's driven home" this is the most memorable.

We were being "introduced" to the table saw in Jr. High and the shop teacher "demonstrated "a kickback for us. This was 1971-72.
We all stood behind the table saw and he started a piece of material through the saw and then switched to pulling it through the back. He intentionally pinched the piece of the material, and a 1" wide, 3' long piece of hardwood shot off the front of that saw and hit the blackboard, which was maybe 15' behind the saw.
It sounded like a shot and hit like a hammer and knocked a hole in that blackboard, with spiderweb shatter cracks that radiated out from the hole. Pretty cool for a bunch of 8th graders
I really don't think he ever meant to present that effective of a lesson, or damage the blackboard. :eek:
I still think it's one of the best lessons ever given at Lorbeer Jr. High School in Diamond Bar California.

[Ben Rafael]

Ya' know. of all the "lesson's driven home" this is the most memorable.

We were being "introduced" to the table saw in Jr. High and the shop teacher "demonstrated "a kickback for us. This was 1971-72.
We all stood behind the table saw and he started a piece of material through the saw and then switched to pulling it through the back. He intentionally pinched the piece of the material, and a 1" wide, 3' long piece of hardwood shot off the front of that saw and hit the blackboard, which was maybe 15' behind the saw.
It sounded like a shot and hit like a hammer and knocked a hole in that blackboard, with spiderweb shatter cracks that radiated out from the hole. Pretty cool for a bunch of 8th graders
I really don't think he ever meant to present that effective of a lesson, or damage the blackboard. :eek:
I still think it's one of the best lessons ever given at Lorbeer Jr. High School in Diamond Bar California.

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I can just see some kid walking up behind another one using the saw and tossing a wet paper towel into the blade. (Especially if he had an ax to grind.) "Wasn't me, uh-uh, nosir, wasn't close to it."

[Glen Blanchard]

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam

Possibly, but Mike might not even remember such a demonstration years later as it would lack the "WOW" factor.

[Bruce Benjamin]

There's an interesting letter in the current issue of Woodshop News from a HS shop teacher regarding the SS. Basically he is saying that in his entire 28 year teaching career he only had one "incident". But since changing over to the SS he has had six "activations" leading him to believe that the SS "lulls" students into something of a "false sense of security".


This post quoted above should be read by every current or future SawStop owner. I know not all SS owners, (Or future owners) are of this mind but it seems that so many posts on this forum have the flavor of, "Now that I have my SawStop..." or, "I'm going to buy the SS so I can check the tablesaw off of my dangerous tools list". Injury from kickback is obviously still a possibility with the SS but I also don't believe that it's impossible to get more than just a scratch from a SS blade. I remember a quote from Mr. SawStop himself saying something to the effect that he believes that sooner or later someone will have a serious saw blade versus skin accident with the SS. Or maybe it was just a line on the SS website. Either way it was said by the SS powers-that-be.

I think that the SS is a big step towards tablesaw safety but I see them more like the way airbags and seat belts are a big step towards automotive safety. They're great safety devices but they won't prevent all injuries or even death.

Bruce

[Mike Cutler]

It's much safer to demo kickback using a piece of styrofoam


Yeah. I'm pretty sure he never repeated that demo'. All he had to do was point to the hole in the blackboard for the next few years.

Who knows, maybe the lessons learned from that demo' led to using styrofoam.;)

Now metal shop was a different story altogether...............

[Robert Conner]

If I were fortunate enough to have a Saw Stop in the School I taught in I would never tell the Students what it was. I would even go so far as cover any reference to it. Just tell them we got a New Saw. I would rather go on and Teach the normal safety procedures. If it were to trip I would just be happy for the lack of injury. It is very hard to convince many students that they are not invincible, that would just be another obstacle. Besides who does not like to see the Hot Dog thing?
I do think many of my students would assume he or she could not get hurt when using it, a very dangerous situation at best.
Maybe I'm just too cautious!
As for the Kickback I used to have a steel cabinet about 7 feet from the TS with a lot of dents in it I would explain how they got there. That was my indicator and that worked without the demonstration.
Robert

[sullivan mcgriff]

It should be noted that all my shop teachers were missing a finger or two, except the one who spent all his time drinking with the custodian and only came out when some disaster struck, genius trying to weld onto bottom of 45 gallon drum and the heat buildup caused it to fly in the air. It is good to see them using a good piece of technology to improve safety rather than something that doesn't work but is safe.

[Tomislav Biric]

I remember 8th grade shop class: tapping my bench-mate on the shoulder, saying "look, Mr. X* is going to cut off his thumb." Mr. X was an art teacher, and he was making 1/4" strips of pine out of a 1/2' thick 3' long plank. Old Rockwell, no guard. He had the fence set 1/4" from the blade, and was reaching over the blade with his left hand, thumb extended, bridging the plank and the off-cut.

He actually got a few strips completed before he put lateral pressure on the plank, causing it to kick-back, taking his thumb off in the process. We saw a red mist, and that was that.

That was the last time that year that ANYONE but the shop teachers got to use the table saw - or the planer, joiner, or shaper. I hope the SawStops remove one of the excuses schools use when they go after shop programs, and make it more likely that students will actually get a chance to use the tools. And, if they fire the brake - well, yes, it might be because they were less worried, but it might just be a less expensive way to learn a lesson.

~Tomislav

*Not his real name ;)

[Ron Jones near Indy]

My main concern centers around those who are comfortable with the Saw Stop in a school program who do woodworking after high school with a non-Saw Stop machine. Will they think that the machine will "protect" then and be lulled into a false sense of security leading to an accident??? It could happen in Dad's shop at home. I can see it happening. The teacher will be negligent, in my opinion, not to emphasize this possibility!

[Peter Quinn]

My own introduction to kick back was on an old dewalt radial arm saw when I was about 9. My grandfather was ripping something in his shop when I walked down the basement stairs, the landing of which led you directly into the path of any kickback from the RAS. He had a TS, not sure why he ripped on the RAS, but as I hit the landing a sticker kicked back and stuck into the mortar in the rubble foundation, bits and pieces of it shattered against the granite boulders, all inches from my face.

There was a red X painted on the floor of the landing. Gruff man that he was, my grandfather shut off the saw and yelled 'Can you read?". On the floor next to the red X was painted "Don't stand here"! That sort of thing leaves an impression.

[Rick Gifford]

There may be a legitimate concern with new tablesaw users starting their career on the SawStop and having a false sense of security.

Myself on the other end just bought the thing, havent even set it up. However I have seen the damage these things can do and I have a built in respect/fear?/distrust or something like that, that all is well when using one. Not that it stops me from doing the work, no, but I am aware of that blade.

Actually I flinch a bit when I see folks push through using their hands so close to the blade. I know they are confident and are experienced, but don't matter.

I do not trust the brake. I assume it will not work. I prefer to keep that outlook so I dont get complacent.

It is why the riving knife was so high on my list of features. Anything to keep me from taking shortcuts (and yes I do, I remove the guards and dont put them back... maybe I wont have the excuse its such a pain now).

I am glad the schools have what is the safest tablesaw on the market available, short of the sliding tables.

For some reason I dont have the same reservation on the bandsaw. I have no reasoning for that either. It is probably why Ive been sliced pretty good on that tool, and never injured on the tablesaw.

Respect for the tools is priority.

Even if the SS brake works perfectly I'm still getting cut. Its says 1/4" deep isnt unreasonable depending on the situation. Man, thats deep enough to open a vein around the wrist. I'm keeping my pushsticks.

[Jim Andrew]

I was a shop teacher for only 2 years. Stress drove me nuts. The kids had a magnetism for reaching for the scraps on the table saw. One kid cut the end off his finger. Probably only 1/16th inch. But they absolutely drove me nuts. Sawstop would have been very welcome in my shop class. I was constantly on those kids about safety on the table saw. Safety on everything for that matter. We had safety tests, you had to pass the safety test on every machine before you could use any of those machines, and the kids just seemed to take safety as a joke. Jim

[Charlie Plesums]

When I had woodshop the teacher would not allow any students to use any power tools except the drill press because he did not want any major injury. Everything we did by hand, which is truly a big pain in the neck when you only have about 35 minutes a day to do work. Between roll call and the lesson and clean up there is very little time. Cant say I blame him though, most of the kids in my class were fools and could have cut off their own heads, present company excepted.:D

I like the SawStop because it is a good saw, but I detest the management who tried to get laws passed to require their product. End of rant.

My son didn't learn very much in shop class, but one of his classmates was killed by a .... drill press. Spade bit broke, flew across the room, into the organ donor's head.

[Steven Hardy]

I like the SawStop because it is a good saw, but I detest the management who tried to get laws passed to require their product. End of rant.

My son didn't learn very much in shop class, but one of his classmates was killed by a .... drill press. Spade bit broke, flew across the room, into the organ donor's head.

I detest it as well,especially since I think better systems can be built for substantially less money and that dont destroy or crash the blade that you're using.
(It only cost an additional 10-15 dollars to stop small lawnmower blades)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The kids I remember from school would bully some poor sap into testing it.