Jointer/Planer Combo Machines

[Chris Padilla]

I had the privilege to visit Jamie Buxton last Saturday in his home/shop in the hills of Redwood City, CA. He has completed some very impressive projects...very impressive! :)

He was kind enough to help me resaw some of that nicely figured maple I gloated about several weeks ago. He had a nice carbide blade on his 16" Laguna. I think I did all right resawing although I burned up my pieces pretty good. I think I was pushing too hard...I dunno...I'm a newbie BSer! :)

He has a small garage similar in size to mine but he also had a 12" Hammer Jointer/Planer combo machine that, Darn It!, fit so nicely within his garage space. It sure got me thinking about combo machines. I am content to leave my Griz TS as a unit but the combination of a 'wide-ish' jointer with a 'small-ish' planer sure fit well in his space.

Naturally, I've been checking out the Hammer/Felder sites and making a mess of drool all over my keyboard. Felder has a showroom in Sacramento but, unfortunately, aren't open on the weekends so I'd have to take a day off of work to scoot out to the central valley from the bay area.

Anyone care to share their experiences with these machines? They are major $$$s but shop space is so precious that I am thinking this way....

Thanks! :cool:

[Tyler Howell]

Chris I think you're a pretty good BSer. Just go easy on the pretty (expensive) wood.

[Dennis Peacock]

Chris,

The one thing I do NOT like about combo machines is it forces you to think through each entire project before milling your wood. I have a Robland X31 and I can't tell you how many times I have WISHED that the planer/Jointer were seperate. :mad:

I wouldn't even care if I had to have the BOTH on mobile bases....I would STILL have them seperate machines. Just my 2¢ worth from a combo machine owner.

[Mike Johnson]

I have a 12" jointer/planer built into my Robland X-31 Combo machine. I have had nothing but great service from it. In fact, I would guess that I use it as much as I use the TS function. Laguna Tools also has showrooms in CA where you could probably see a demo.

[Derek Arita]

Don't want to throw in a wrench, but since you're looking at 12" combos, don't forget about the MM FS30 Smart. It comes with Tersa knives, which are excellent and a breeze to change out. Cuts are smooth as silk. Also, the MM people are great to work with. Ask questions at the Mini Max forum on Yahoo Groups. It will be worth your while.

[Chris Padilla]

Here is one guy's thoughts on his Hammer stuff:

http://www.shoptours.org/shop_tours/files/pj-hammer-art.html

[Mike Palmer]

Chris, I am on my second j/p machine. My first was a Minimax FS350. I had it for 4 years then I came across an opportunity to upgrade to a larger 20" unit. I currently use a Casadei FS51. For a space limited shops, these units are great. The change over only takes a few seconds. Planning ahead will eliminate some frustration in the change over. The best benefit to these machines is you can joint and plane the same width. If you have a wide board, you won't have to rip it before you make it flat and true.

[Mark Bachler]

Don't want to throw in a wrench, but since you're looking at 12" combos, don't forget about the MM FS30 Smart. It comes with Tersa knives, which are excellent and a breeze to change out. Cuts are smooth as silk. Also, the MM people are great to work with. Ask questions at the Mini Max forum on Yahoo Groups. It will be worth your while.


Got a 35 smart too. It's a real nice unit but I can see myself getting a 24" planer down the road to go with it.

[Michael Ballent]

I too have been looking at these machines for a long time.. I have always contended that it just makes sense to have a jointer that is as wide as your planer... I have a 6" jointer and always end up having to rip the board to fit this dimension, but my planer is 12" grrrr. I have pretty much settled on the MM 12" unit once finances let me :D Jim B just picked up the 14" unit I believe...

[Glenn Kiso]

I had a 16" Hammer Jointer/Planer and it was absolutely wonderful. I agree that if you have the room and the budget that a separate j/p machines would be ideal. The combo machines are definitely the only way to cram all the machinery + hand tools + workbenches + car in my 2 car garage space.

I've recently upgrade to a Felder combo, but my only gripe with the Hammer or any other j/p combo was the raising / lowering of the table to switch functions, so I opted for the electronic raise/lower on the Felder. At least it'll minimize the work between changeover.

A third benefit of most j/p combo machines is that they can be used as a horizontal slot mortiser with the optional chuck and table.

[markus shaffer]

Chris,

I got a Felder jointer/planer combo back in December. I have to say, it's been more than a pleasure to work with. Granted, it's monstrous... 20 inches!! It's a far cry from the Delta 8" jointer I had before. Admittedly, it's probably much more than I'll ever need, but the price was right as Felder had it on the showroom floor and was anxious to get rid of it to make way for the newer models. I will admit that it would be nice to have separate machines, but for my space and what else I have here, it's not possible. You do have to think a little bit as you work because changing over from jointer to planer takes time, but not so much that it will ruin your day.. Actually, less than a minute on my machine.

One word of advice if you look at Felder machines, make sure to get the power drive option. That is a motorized lift for the planer bed. You have to lower the planer bed all the way down to chage over to the jointer option. Having a motor do it for you rather than cranking it makes all the difference in the world. The motor also has a slow speed button so that you can creep up slowly to the thickness that you want. Another nice feature is that it has a dial indicator scale. So you can accurately repeat the thickness that you want which makes changing back and forth much simpler than you would imagine if you're aiming to repeat the thickness of the cut on the planer. The newer models also have a digital readout option. I think you just program in what you want and it will automatically go there for you.

I added a power feeder to my jointer and it has made a huge difference. I recently had to run about 30 ten foot long 8/4 boards through my machine. Most of them were 8-10 inches wide. A few wider. With the power feeder on the jointer, I got exact consistant results with each and every board. In the past, I'll say that I never got consistant results jointing boards over 8 feet long. Probably due to poor technique on my part, but having the option to add the power feeder sure made a difference.

Some other things to think about with the Felder machines.. There is an option to add a mortising unit. You get a choice of cutterblocks, 2,3,or 4 knife and also a Tersa. You can also choose the motor size for the machine you've got as well.

Even if you have the room for separate machines, I would still recommend that you consider the idea of a combo machine. Maybe it's not always as convenient as having separate machines, but it more than makes up for it in versatility and the fact that you'd be getting a wide jointer.

-Markus

[Richard McComas]

I have a Felder AD 741 (16” jointer/planer) for several years now and I like it a LOT!!
I bought it, not because of shop space problems but because I wanted a quality jointer and planer of the same width and I could not afford the separate machines in that quality category.

My machine has the electric lift for the planer table; it takes 40-seconds max to change functions( if you don't have 40 seconds you not enjoying your hobby). It also has a digital read out for thickness of stock which is very accurate, if you forget to plane enough stock the first time around or ruin a board it is so easy to make another piece with very little fuss and no hand measuring required. When I plane stock to a certain thickness I make a note of what the digital read out says. If I need more of the same thickness all I have to do is push the button on the electric lift to move the planer table back to that setting to make more stock of the same thickness (with in .002 of an inch). I don’t plan ahead as well as some but has really not been a problem with the Felder jointer/planer combo.

I don’t know the options available for other manufactures of combo machine but some, at least Felder does, has very accurate table extension that once set stay set and can be taken off and put on with no tools required.

[Chris Padilla]

Another thought. The weak dollar sure makes these Euro machines quite a bit more expensive, no?

Interestingly enough, my German automobile's (BMW) prices here are not affected at all by the exchange rate. I guess cars are handled differently than table saws! :)

[Dan Stuewe]

I recently have been looking at the 5-1 combo machines and found an article published recently by Fine Woodworking (minimax has the link to it...http://www.minimax-usa.com/fww-review.html). The article discusses all five machines, but I believe the J/P portion may help give an idea how the different manufactures line up. Fine Woodworking also has a video of change overs and highlights on their web page.

Any of these options are a long way away from me since I barely have time for my Craftsman and borrowed 6" jointer, but someday...

[Lynn Sonier]

Anyone have any idea of what the Hammer 12 inch planer/jointer goes for? I know, if I have to ask, I can't afford it.
Lynn

[Chris Padilla]

I believe that Jamie told me he paid in the mid to low 2s 3-4 years ago for his 12" Hammer.

[Glenn Kiso]

Another thought. The weak dollar sure makes these Euro machines quite a bit more expensive, no?

Interestingly enough, my German automobile's (BMW) prices here are not affected at all by the exchange rate. I guess cars are handled differently than table saws! :)

Ahh.. Felder is made exclusively in Austria. Some BMW's are made in Munich. Many come from other factories in USA (spartanburg), Brazil, or elsewhere.

Looks like Felder is having another price increase as the cost of steel and aluminum is driving up costs...

[Michael Ballent]

BMW still needs to compete against Lexus, Acura etc I know the Honda Accords are built here and so are the Camry's so it would not be a stretch to imagine that the Luxo versions are built in the USA as well. Heck the Mercedes ML class are built in Tennessee :D just so they can avoid the import taxes and dollar fluctuations.

-Michael

[Jim Becker]

Chris, I'm very, very glad I picked up the J/P for my shop. It's so nice having a jointer bed that can process "normal" lumber without ripping as I'm a true fan of face jointing for flattness before I go any farther with my milling. The changover to planing mode is quick and easy and I haven't found either to be cumbersome. The review of my machine on my site will give you some insight to operations, etc.

Like someone else mentioned, I'm somewhat glad to have the J/P separate from the TS as it makes jumping back and forth between them a lot more convenient. With my small shop, it also lets me us the TS to hold the material I'm working on since I tend to batch milling for a project.

As to brand...well, there are a bunch of good choices. Felder and MiniMax are the two I'd look at with the Felder being top of the line and the MiniMax following just behind. Both have great machines and customer service. The MiniMax fits my needs beautifully...Felder adds the potential for some additional bells and whistles.

No matter which you choose, the exchange rate has been hurting costs and causing price increases. One way to save money is to make arrangements to take a "show" machine...hint hint...

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

I am just about sold on this...now it is a matter of finding something I like and working on the budget for it.

I assume the various flavors of vendors (Felder/Hammer, MiniMax, Knapp, etc.) for these J/P list the shows they will be at on their own website or is there a good central ww'ing website detailing this?

[Jim Becker]

Chris, the vendor web sites have a lot of information, but it's probably a good idea to contact them to get an info package. In the case of MiniMax, for example, they show the FS-350 on the web site, but I believe they are selling an updated machine and calling it an FS35 Smart. Same capacities, but some physical differences.

All of these "brands" have discussion groups out there. I'll provide you a link to the MiniMax forum via email. Others can point you to similar for Felder, etc.

I will say one thing...I'm convinved this is a good format for such a machine, especially for individual woodworkers and even small pro shops with a few folks where someone isn't constantly using one function or the other. The space savings over similar capacity "separate" machines is significant and in most cases, there actually is a cost savings if you are comparing similar quality and capacity.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for the email and I, too, am convinced this is the right way to go...I just don't have room for a nice sized jointer and I wouldn't mind a bigger planer. It just makes sense to have the J/P 'system' handle the same width boards and the space savings are great. Recall I have that W-T 'boat anchor' of a BS coming to my house sometime this summer! :D

[Don Dean]

I would also like to know the approx. cost of these (Felder, Robland, Minimax) planer/jointers/