Yes, Me, again, caution - Mad Cow Post

[Barb Macdonald]

Hey all
I just did a cleaning cycle on my abigail, epilog ext 60 watt machine. I'd not really seen much in the way of issues, but I'd done little bits of wood, and gravoply, and aluminum, and granite, and was about to do a long run of reverse laserable. I took Bill C. up on the magnifying mirror idea to help with cleaning the lenses and mirrors and all, and I even bought a flash-light to improve my vision, which is mature. I hope it still works tomorrow. I'm going to check alignment in the am, before I start the run. I wanted the cleaning h20 to dry, and I wasted WAY too much time on the phone with Ma Bell this morning, grrrr, threw off the whole day. Anyway, my mirrors sure aren't perfect, around the edges, there seems to be a haze, which I can't seem to remove with my cleaning fluid and q-tips. The magnifier let me see stuff I hadn't before... How on earth can I keep this machine cleaner, and stilll make products, without hiring a full-time janitor???
I work in a pretty dusty shop, which drives me oh never mind, that's got to be an issue with these machines. I mean, when I see flotsam and jetsam floatin' thru the air, I guess I shouldn't be surprised when abigail hiccups.
I wish there was a magic laser cleaner/aligner techie guru, that would come in, get it back to square, and let me back at it.
Barring THAT, which I know is worse than wishing for horses, I'd like a step/by/stupid complete step "how to maintain your machine". I wish this machine didn't worry me:)
Thank you
I feel slightly better:)
wish me luck in the am!

[Gary Hair]

Barb,
This isn't directed entirely at you, so please don't take it too terribly...

How do people spend 10k and more on a piece of equipment and then not take the time to maintain it? I have had my laser since August of 06 and it looks pretty much as it did the day I wheeled it in and started using it. I clean the lens either every couple of days, or as needed, the mirrors are every other week, or as needed. I remove the lens and mirrors when I clean them, I can't see how they could possibly get clean while still in the laser. The dirtiest part of my laser is where the air gets sucked out by the dust collector, and it's not too terrible. Before you talk about how busy you are and how you don't have time to clean, I am probably just as busy as most, but I make time in to clean. It only takes me about 10-15 minutes to do a thorough cleaning anyway, it's no big deal. My car is another story. It cost a lot more than my laser but it doesn't make me any money...

Sorry for the rant, but I just don't understand...

Gary

[Lisa Walter]

Hi Barb!

Maybe I am a little more nervous than most? I check my mirrors before each item I burn. If I am in an out of there with small stuff I check them every few items. If it's a dusty item I definately check each time. I got nervous when I didn't check for a few items one time and when I check the one mirror, it had a circle of God knows what on it. It was really weird. About that same time I had read a posting on here that said someone burned a hole right through their mirror. It's pretty easy for me to check my mirrors though.......I am not sure about other lasers. I just loosen the set screw and slide them out. One thing I have been doing and I am afraid to mention it for fear that someone will scold me because I don't know if it's ok to do this......I keep a spray can of air (the kind you would clean your keyboard with) and after each dusty piece I hit the mirror/lens area with a blast of air. Not too close mind you, but enough to clear away any dust. I am sure someone on here with find fault with that (there is always someone that has an opinion) but it works for me. Maybe I am not afraid because my machine is under warranty? ;) I have not touched the lens alignment since I got my laser in the fall. I really need to read up on it to check it I guess, but why play with something that has no trouble?

If you laser is very dusty, is your blower strong enough for what you are lasering? My laser salesman told me a story about one company he visited that was engraving magnet material and was having trouble with debris in the laser bed. He said right away they wanted to blame the laser, but it turned out to be a plugged hose coming out of the blower (they had many lasers hooked up). If there isn't good airflow, your bound to see dust floating around.

Lisa

[Richard Rumancik]

. . .Maybe I am not afraid because my machine is under warranty? . . .If you laser is very dusty, is your blower strong enough for what you are lasering?

Lisa . . . don't get Barb started on her blower! She has a VERY good blower, it's just that her laser needs much more air than most. I think there is a bit of a problem with the air system in that model and although she had a few mods installed by the manufacturer it is my understanding that it is still not exhausting quite the way one would like. If you want to read the details search for a thread started by Barb back in about January . . .

(BTW - I don't think your lenses and mirrors are under warranty.)

Gary, I think Barb wants to keep her system clean - the poor exhaust function isn't helping. I think she feels she is spending too much time cleaning and not enough lasering . . .

[Lisa Walter]

(BTW - I don't think your lenses and mirrors are under warranty.)



Actually I was told they were.......he told me I am bound to break one and to give him a call if it happens. Unless that was his deal and not the company's I am not sure. I'd have to look over my paperwork. And I did wind up getting a two year warranty and not a one year.

Lisa

[Larry Bratton]

(BTW - I don't think your lenses and mirrors are under warranty.)



Actually I was told they were.......he told me I am bound to break one and to give him a call if it happens. Unless that was his deal and not the company's I am not sure. I'd have to look over my paperwork. And I did wind up getting a two year warranty and not a one year.

Lisa
I tried to buy a spare lense from Epilog. They told me not to worry about it while in warranty, if I needed one to let them know and they would ship it under warranty, no charge. I assume the same is true with mirrors.

[Lisa Walter]

I tried to buy a spare lense from Epilog. They told me not to worry about it while in warranty, if I needed one to let them know and they would ship it under warranty, no charge. I assume the same is true with mirrors.

Thanks Larry :)

[John Barton]

Hi,

I have a ULS Laser and a China Laser. While looking at the China laser I visited many shops and was shocked (well not really for those of us that live here) at how dirty everything is and yet the lasers still functioned perfectly.

I keep my lasers clean but I just wanted everyone to know that IF they get a little dusty then it's generally not the end of the world. What folks may not be aware of is that the beam is burning when it hits the mirrors. So it's likely vaporizing most particles and stuff on the surface and not degrading the beam. Of course I am probably wrong in this guess and welcome correction. One could say that at least when the laser is clean then for sure it's not because of dirt or debris when something isn't working right.

I have lasered a LOT of wood and plastic and I clean my machines real good once a week or so. I would go nuts if I did it every day.

I do think that the idea of using a blower after each job is a good one. I don't do that but we should.

[Barb Macdonald]

Richard, will you marry me:)
? Where are you, anyway? I noticed you know CESCO, are you Canadian, or what??
I agree, I was whining, Gary. I'm allowed. I don't think I'm busier than most. I've managed to maintain all my other machinery, for many many years, thanks to great directions and great manuals.
I have done everything I can think of, in terms of keeping things clean, on a regular basis. When I first got Abigail, I was told by the tech the various steps required to keep things clean. I read my manual carefully, I researched the heck of it. I removed the mirrors for cleaning, AS PER THE MANUAL, and was told later, when the tech came back out to show me how to do alignment (it was a long, painful time for Abigail) that removing mirrors/lenses would mean re-alignment of the mirrors. That's a tricky little thing to do on Abigail. I read, in the manual, that the mirrors wouldn't need alignment, the factory alignment would last for mostly ever. Then, when we had to re-align, I was told that would last forever. Nothing is forever, I know!
Most early mornings are devoted to maintenance. Yesterday, my morning was spent arguing with Bell. By the afternoon, I'm too shaky to trust myself with fiddly work.
I also think the design which allows debris to settle on the lenses and mirrors (and of course, my frickin' exhaust issues, thanks for remembering Richard) and the belts, and the spindles, is not great.
I'm going to go burn something.
Thanks for listening, and thanks to Lisa, it's so nice to hear an understanding female voice in this industry.
I felt better after I read your post, Richard, as usual.
Thanks again, all!
The CREEK RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barb

[Rob Bosworth]

Dear Barb, I hope the statement that you made: I'm going to go burn something includes the concept that you aren't going to inhale.

I am a huge advocate of keeping laser systems clean. That being said, I also need to caution some that over handling of optics can be a problem. Micro scratches can be made on the coatings of laser optics from rubbing. If you are going to clean optics daily or more, make sure that you put a couple of drops of the cleaning solution directly on the surface of the optic, then to drag the lens paper across the surface to clean it. No more pressure on the cleaning paper than gravity and moisture adhesion.

(I personally hate using that method to clean optics. Speaking as a person (man) who is not very good or competent at cleaning in the first place, how can anything get clean if you do not scrub it.)

[Rodne Gold]

You can use the drop and drag method on mirrors, but I cant see how you can use it on lenses?
We treat mirrors and lenses as consumables and count ourselves lucky if the lens lasts 2 years. At any rate we have found that the lens has to be REALLY bad before we suffer appreciable losses in power. We have measured power drop thru a bad lens with huge bits of missing coatings and its less than 15% and it was still useable.
However we have cracked lenses cos spatter or residue hasnt been removed and the lens overheats.
One area a lot of folk overlook when cleaning is the source and the fans on it or in its enclosure. We use canned/compressed air to blow out the fans and especially the heat sink fins on the source. We find this the most critical area for laser health followed by the guide rails and motion system bearings or rollers. (cleaning and lubing at least once every 2-3 days)

[Richard Rumancik]

OK, I stand corrected about lenses - seems some manufacturers/dealers are offering replacements (at least the first one you drop!) I don't think GCC warrants lenses or mirrors from damage or breakage from what I recall. At several hundred a pop for lenses I wonder how many they will replace under warranty?

[Richard Rumancik]

Richard, will you marry me:)
? Where are you, anyway? I noticed you know CESCO, are you Canadian, or what?? Barb

Oh, Barb - this is so sudden . . . but I think that maybe I should see your laser first . . .

Yes, I'm Canadian, eh! (Manitoba . . . right in the centre of the country).

Richard

[Barb Macdonald]

Yeah, she was fine, burned real good. HA, thanks for the laughs! The reverse laserable, gets a little finickery when you decide to do big coloured signs, with big white text. Tricky to get the P/S perfected, thank goodness they're being backpainted white! Made some nice biz cards too...
The trouble with having really great vision all your life, then, not, is when you do see finally see stuff, it's big! Like when I'm cleaning my glasses, and I hold them out far enough to see what I've done, and these big spots of dust/grime/smudges are still there, but I'm happy I can see them. The magnifier had the same kind of effect, when I was peering at the mirrors and lens. Except, I wasn't that happy to see the splots!

Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that I clean Abigail every morning. The exhaust issue isn't as bad, or I'd still be bit*hing. I may, again, anyway. I'm allowed:)

Rodne, at the risk of sounding even doltier than I usually do, what is the "source"?
quote
"cleaning is the source and the fans on it or in its enclosure. We use canned/compressed air to blow out the fans and especially the heat sink fins on the source."
unquote
The source of all power? The source of the Force? Is it with me? Do I have the source? Duh:o
critical area for laser health
For someone who's hyperthyroid:eek:, that's a jolt, y'know... Critical??? :eek:

Also, I clean the guide rails, and the belts, with Windex, but to really clean, I gotta tear the whole thing apart. I can't reach inside the belts, to get rid of the gunge, without leaving more gunge behind. "Gunge" = well, you know. And, I know I have to, because I've done it once, and it's not that easy..... Whine, I hear another whine. Cr*p.

Rob - I haven't gotten up the courage to pull the mirrors and lens out, since the last alignment. I'm not looking forward to that little aerobic exercise. Checked alignment, it was good. But for how long:eek:

Richard! Manitoba, eh? I thought you sounded northern. (Kidding, I had no idea, until the CESCO hint.) We're neighbours, aren't we ;)!
Hey, if you're ever in TO, lemme know. I owe ya at least a glimpse of Abigail, before we tie the knot:p.
:)

Barb

The CREEK Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rodne Gold]

The Source is the "force" , the tube of course ;)
Box buried in the bowels of the machine where the laser beam comes from.
You shouldnt have to do an alignment when cleaning mirrors or lens......rediculous design if that is the case.
Dunno bout the windex on rails , doesnt seem right to me , that might strip any lubes and promote some corrosion. We use a cloth moistend with Q20(like WD40).
I think you are being way too overconcerned with cleaning. Cleaning mirrors and lenses is vital , then rails and rollers, the rest is not critical.

[Bill Cunningham]

Ha Barb.. Arguing with 'bell' seems to be a Canadian pass time... I just told them yesterday "$%&&#$ you" I'm going to dump every bell service I have, and move to something else.. No more apologetic emails from "Ramaswamy" I'm done...

[Rob Bosworth]

Barb, I think all of the optics on your machine should be able to be removed easily, cleaned a put back without a huge change of alignment. IF i remember right, most of the optics ion that machine are held into place with thumbscrews. Loosen up the thumbscrew and the mounted optic pulls right out of the mount. Most of the mounting plates show a mark from the thumbscrew to show you how the mounted was mounted in the holder. I can't imagine that your alignment would be way off after removing the corner mirrors, cleaning and replacing them. The focus lens assy. is even easier to remove, clean and replace.

I believe Rodne is stating that he thinks keeping the lectrical components clean of dirt, dust and anything that might block heat from being removed from electronic components is far more critical than optic cleaning. I agree. Heat can be one of your worst enemies. It causes components to fail.