Now Nervous about shellac

[Jim Volk]

I'm in the final stages of a Mission style bed made of QSWO. My intentions were to use a finish I found in an article of Wood Magazine back in Nov of '06. But after reading several of the post's here, I'm starting to have second thoughts. The formula basically calls for a 1# cut of super blonde shellac mixed to 2 parts brushing lacquer and tinted to suit. This would be the first time I've attempted to use anything like this. After reading several of the post here I'm nervous. When I read things like not being able to overlap, keep going, don't go back over areas ect...now I'm worried. I've invested way to much to have this finish be a problem.
The particular article I've mentioned said to brush on liberally and then wipe immediatley wipe off the excess to achieve an even color. Do my concerns have merit?

[Jeff Wright]

Sounds like it would be worth it to try your proposed finish on a good-sized piece of identical wood. Then you can be the judge (and expert) on this particular blend of finish. Even if you have to spend a few bucks on additional wood, it would be worth it with all the time you have invested in making the bed.

[glenn bradley]

Absolutely do test pieces on identical material that has been sanded, etc. just like the real thing. Have you ever read any finishing article that doesn't mention this? I'm with Jeff on trying to cover a surface about the size of the largest surface on the piece. When I have a couple hundred dollars of material and who knows how much time standing in front of me, there is no way I am going at it with an untried formula.

Temperature, humidity, etc. will effect how your finish behaves so do your test pieces in similar conditions that will exist when its show time. You will also have a better time if you finish troublesome parts prior to assembly. This first "blush" does not have to be perfect and will really lower your stress level during glue up and final finishing.

[Jim Volk]

No matter what finish I go with I will be testing it all the way through on scrap pcs. I have to see it first to know that my color choices are right before I put something on my finished project. My real concern is how user friendly this system will be. I've used stains many times with very good results, but that little voice in my head keeps saying, go ahead, try it! Also the fact that using the tints allows me to zero in on that particular look.

I suppose it's just butterflies. Lots of $'s wrapped up in this one!

[glenn bradley]

Sorry Jim. I should have talked more about that. The mix can alter the "feel" of a wiped on finish. I pretty much only wipe or spray and sometimes the finish "feels" good and sometimes I have to play with the mix a bit before I go after my keeper.

Butterflies are deserved. We all know that feeling. The trick here is to get your butterflies to fly in formation. I'm betting you'll feel better after a couple test runs.

[Jim Becker]

Shellac and lacquer mixed? Hmm...

[Steve Schoene]

Yeah, did seem a bit strange, but they are both evaporative finishes, and alcohol is a thinner (not solvent) for lacquer, so it might work, though I can't really see what is the point. It's not something I have ever experimented with, nor for that matter am I likely too any time soon.

[Joe Chritz]

I don't see the point either.

A 1# cut of shellac topped with lacquer tinted sounds fairly normal but not sure about mixed.

I try to keep it simple whenever possible. I made my mission style bed before I discovered USL (or this forum for that matter, thanks to Mr. Becker for the USL tip) and shot a pre-cat lacquer.

I think it is 7 or 8 years old and still looks new.

Joe

[Jim Volk]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. Shellac and Laquer mixed together. Yup, that's what it said to do. I noticed in the article they advised not to try and spray on this finish. Their words were something like " it will have a muddy look ". No matter. I don't have spray equipment anyhow. It's kinda weird, but they were using a cheap sponge brush. Everything that I have read hints that if you intend to brush this something like this on you should use a high quality fine bristled brush. I think I'll experiment with both a brush and the wipe on method.

[Sam Yerardi]

I also find it a strange mix. Perhaps the author thought he/she was achieving the best of both worlds? Even that doesn't seem to make sense because one of the main uses of shellac in this case is as a sealer. So if you mix it with it's top coat (lacquer), aren't you defeating the separate sealer layer? It may in fact make a great end finish but what was the original purpose for the mix? I'm sure I'm missing something here (always seem to do that ;:)...

[Roy Fleming]

Won't the foam brush dissovle in that mixture?

[Steven Wilson]

Jim, I wouldn't mix the lacquer and shellac together. Just use shellac. You can use different color shellacs (there are many) and can add transtint to shellac if you want to change the color of the shellac you're using. And yes you would apply the first few build coats with a good brush and then switch to padding for apply the last few coats.

[Howard Acheson]

The biggest concern I would have is being able to get a consistent tone or color to a larger item. The shellac/lacquer material is going to evaporate very rapidly. The piece Wood Magazine used the mixture on was a small piece where it could be wiped quickly. I would bet that you can't coat a bed side rail and get back to wiping before the material has dried.

You best be sure to test it on something big before committing to your project. It doesn't look practical to me.

[Jim Volk]

I'm back. That day job thing!

Howard, I agree with your thoughts about the size of the piece. That has been in the back of my mind all day. That has kind of bothered me since reading about the use of shellac, and you are correct. The piece they were working on in the article was very small. No comparison to the size that I would be working with. I've thought about this all day and I think I'm leaning towards something different. In the past I've mostly used a Master's Sovent based penetrating stain. I used to be able to get it mixed locally. I've always had good luck with this stuff. Now I'm wondering if I can't start with that using the Natual base and get to the color / look that I want by adding Transtint to that. Would that be a possability?

[Joe Chritz]

I haven't use Master's stains but you can generally tint stains with other stains of the same brand. Transtint can go in just about anything.

Remember adding transtint to the finish will tend to obscure the grain some. It is done a lot in commercial finishing to even out different areas.

I have been thinking, new experience, but anyway I can't see what the benefits to the mix could be.

Joe

[Tom Henderson2]

Hi Jim-

I would suggest using a finish you are comfortable with and have experience with.. or that is so bulletproof and simple that experience isn't required.

Your butterflies are telling you something... listen to them.

Experiement on projects that you won't mind making mistakes with. Use the methods you have used successfully on the important stuff.

My $0.02.

-TH