How to attach workbench top to legs

[Jordan Shatsoff]

I am making a workbench on wheels. Nothing fancy but will be much more stable then my mdf on saw horses I was using.

The legs are cleaned up 2x4s with half lap joints forming a rectangle. Then the two legs are connected via stretchers using half laps. Basically it will look something like this but on wheels. http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5401

I am going to simply use a double layer of plywood for the top, covered with a replaceable hardboard skin. What is the best way to attach the top to the legs? Screw it right down? Some kind of fastener?

Also while we are at it.... When building the cabinet underneath, is it best to build it and then attach, seems like you could then reconfigure if needed. Or actually build it right into the frame, a more permanent configuration.

Thanks

[Jeff Hallam]

I think pocket screws through the inside of the stretchers would work. I like the idea of building the cabinet to fit the space, but not as part of the base. That way you can replace it if your needs change, or reconfigure like you suggested.

[Jordan Shatsoff]

I use pocket screws all the time. I felt like it might not be the right thing to do....But I have no good reason why.

[Jeff Hallam]

If you were using a solid wood top it wouldn't be the right thing to do because you wouldn't be providing for any seasonal movement, but plywood shouldn't give you that problem.

[Brian Hale]

I used threaded brass inserts and was quite pleased with the results plus it allows for disassembly if needed. Drill the through holes in the base over sized to allow for expansion.

Brian :)

[Bartee Lamar]

Since you asked, I had to go to the shop and look to see what I did.

Here are a couple of pictures. I guess it's a little over engineered, but that's not new for me.

86406

While I was laying on my back, here is a picture of how I attached the vise.

86407

More pictures on the web album (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/WorkBenchTopAttachement)

[glenn bradley]

If the top is to be solid wood you will need to allow for movement and it will not be much help in providing structural strength while moving. In this case you need to build your base to remain square and rigid regardless of uneven floor surface. Since the top is not structural, you could rest it on dowel pins as you see many benches do. This would stay aligned as long as your base remains true from spot to spot.

If the top is going to be man made (MDF, PLY, etc.) you have no movement issue and can make it part of the structural unit. My top is 3" of MDF and is screwed directly to the frame and support struts.

Jordan's main challenge is that he wants to be on wheels. The thing we don't know is what his floor surface is going to be like. For example, A torsion box type base would be ill suited for my garage. The floor is too uneven on the angle; front to back or side to side things are pretty flat. The slope toward the door makes anything on the angle teeter-totter if it cannot flex or be raised with leveling bolts.

My rolling worktable is an open front carcase full of drawers and pullout bins. There is an 1/8" gap around the drawers (double my normal gap) to allow things to move well if the carcase racks. The wheels lock and this rig works very well as long as I am not after a flat top. The whole assembly is made to flex a bit so it stays solid but this also means the top flexes along with the carcase.

The other way to go is with an amazingly rigid structure that can support itself. This type of cabinet would end up with at least one wheel off the floor in most places in my shop. Screw-down leveling bolts or Zambus (http://www.zambus.com/product/ac300.php) type casters would work to solve this problem. I have other stationary and flat surfaces so the rolling table could be built to flex.

[Greg Hines, MD]

When I built my workbench, I was faced with these same issues. My solution was to simply place a cleat atop the legs (they are 4x4s) and then screw up through the cleat and into the top. One thing that I will say, I considered using a double layer of plywood, and ended up using 4 layers of 3/4" plywood. This gives me a 3" thick top (or there abouts) that holds my vise, has dog holes that hold securely, and that I was able to easily put in holdfasts in the middle of the top and it is the most solid piece of furniture that I have.

I don't know how you intend to put it on wheels, but I would recommend using a system like Norm does for his assembly table. I am not pleased with the wheels that I have on mine right now, and when they finally fail, I am going to do something like Norm did.

Doc

[Leo Zick]

if you are using multiple layers of plywood, why not just screw some lag bolts or heavy wood screws down into the legs from the first plywood layer?

is this considered bad practice?

[Jordan Shatsoff]

Thanks for all your suggestions everyone. Now I just have to decide which way to go. My guess would be I will use pocket screws, since I have them and it would be easy.

As far as the wheels, the surface will almost certainly be a problem. It is my basement cement floor which is not perfectly flat. Really it will be on wheels to *just get it out of the way* when I need to pull out tools away from the wall. I am guessing I will put it on plane old cheapo locking casters with threaded stems. Adjust them and mark the floor so I can put them back.

This project really served 2 purposes. Stop using the board on horses, where the board was always moving around, but the whole thing was hard to move around. It also had no storage. The second purpose was to test drive my planer which I had not used, and my dado blade which I had not used. Also got to work on my card scraper usage and sharpening.

When I have time, and money, (and more space) I will probably work on something more robust.

[Greg Hines, MD]

if you are using multiple layers of plywood, why not just screw some lag bolts or heavy wood screws down into the legs from the first plywood layer?

is this considered bad practice?



My problem with that idea would be that if you ever needed to remove the top, you could not. Another option would be to lag it through the top, since you are covering the top with the hardboard anyway. I have done it both ways. Though my workbench does not have a hardboard top, I do have some tables for my drawer cabinets that do have the hardboard on top. The reason I did not use it for my bench is that I wanted to have a natural top, that I could then add it if I wanted to, and the tops of my dog holes are chamfered which would tear the hardboard, I think.

Doc

[Greg Hines, MD]

As far as the wheels, the surface will almost certainly be a problem. It is my basement cement floor which is not perfectly flat. Really it will be on wheels to *just get it out of the way* when I need to pull out tools away from the wall. I am guessing I will put it on plane old cheapo locking casters with threaded stems. Adjust them and mark the floor so I can put them back.


I would worry about stability in that kind of arrangement. Here is a close up of my wheel assembly (it is sold at Woodcraft for attaching to the legs of a contractors saw) as well as a view of my bench. The thing about this arrangement for wheels is that the bench sits on its own feet, rather than on the wheels.

Doc

[Jordan Shatsoff]

You guys have convinced me to either do what Norm did or to get some casters like those for contractor saws.

I don't recall the exact mechanism Norm used. I know there was a board on a hinge with the wheels attached to the board. Then he lifted up on the table and it *somehow* locked in place. Was there a second piece of wood that fell into place to lock it? Then what was the mechanism to get the tabe back on it's legs. His table was mostly open space underneath, where as mine will have some kind of cabinet. Did his wheels require the open space to be able to switch back and forth

I found these at woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3703 Pretty much what Greg Hines has used I think. Since these appear to be $40 for the set of four, I am not sure I would save all that much by doing Norm's mechanism. Greg looked loke he simply attached a small piece of wood to the side of his table and then attached the wheels to that. Seems simple and will require about the same cost, no?

Thanks again.

[Vic Damone]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/VicDamonez/DSCN0023.jpg?t=1208196537

I used lag bolts and washers through pocket holes to a solid maple top.

Vic

[Greg Hines, MD]

You guys have convinced me to either do what Norm did or to get some casters like those for contractor saws.

I don't recall the exact mechanism Norm used. I know there was a board on a hinge with the wheels attached to the board. Then he lifted up on the table and it *somehow* locked in place. Was there a second piece of wood that fell into place to lock it? Then what was the mechanism to get the tabe back on it's legs. His table was mostly open space underneath, where as mine will have some kind of cabinet. Did his wheels require the open space to be able to switch back and forth

I found these at woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3703 Pretty much what Greg Hines has used I think. Since these appear to be $40 for the set of four, I am not sure I would save all that much by doing Norm's mechanism. Greg looked loke he simply attached a small piece of wood to the side of his table and then attached the wheels to that. Seems simple and will require about the same cost, no?

Thanks again.


Norm used a hinged board attached to the stretcher, with the casters bolted to it. Then he added jacks on either side, so you lift the end of the table up and they fall into place by gravity. A string attached to the jacks that you can pull to release them sets the legs on the ground.

Those are exactly what I used. I got the idea from an old Wood Magazine (I think, it could have been Popular Woodworking), and the trick to it is the wedge shaped block that they are attached to. When I get home, I will measure them up, but it is something like 6" long and the thick part of the wedge is 1 5/8".

I would do it like Norm did, and that is what I will do when the wheels on the casters wear out. They are rather soft, and rather small, so they have a tendency to catch on cracks in the cement or seams in the driveway. I would much rather spend $40 on a good set of casters than on those again.

Doc

[Lee Koepke]

Doc has a good point.

I have a "work surface" that has hastily assembled casters it serves as an outfeed for my TS , and for THAT use its fine. I have found because of the location I have been using it for alot more .... so its really not stable enough to use properly with casters.

I built my CMS with casters about 1/8" off the floor so if I ever need to move it, I tilt the CMS station and roll it around ...

Think about stability, the work bench you are describing should be able to be moved around without wheels ....

[Greg Hines, MD]

For anyone that is looking to use the Woodcraft casters as I did, the wedge blocks are 6" long and 1 5/8" thick at the wide end.

Doc