Processing IPE?

[Byron Trantham]

Has anyone out there milled IPE? I have been asked to create 26 24"x96" raised panels. I looked it up on the Internet and found out that the stuff is very hard! I used Forrest blades but I think I should "dial in" a couple more into the price. Also, any suggestions for a brand of router bit to raise the panels and make the cope and stick? I will need as large a raised panel bit that can be used safely. I typically buy MLCS but I think I need to go Whiteside or Freud. Anyone know waht a board foot of this stuff weighs?

[Roger Barlow]

We did one job in IPE, hard as a rock, heavy like dense white oak. My partner had a reaction to the dust - rash and breathing, so I had to do all the milling. Made greasy yellow/brown dust. Wear a good respirator, use extremely good DC. Carbide tools from good manufacturers will cut this stuff just fine - will wear tooling faster than domestic hardwood, but you're not gonna burn up blades and bits like matches. Just fiigure in a resharpen fee for all tooling you use.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Roger pretty much covered it. Makes a really fine yellow dust that oddly turns pink/red when wet. Often it will have some wild grain and because it is really hard chip/tearout can be a problem.

Some people say it is horrible, but I found it works nicely, both with hand and power tools. But it does certainly wear out your tools more quickly. I find a brad point bit is preferable for drilling so it doesn't wander when starting the hole.

As for weight, specific gravity is >1 meaning it sinks. It is some really heavy stuff. So plan accordingly based on what this will be used for and mounting, hinges, etc. Raised panel doors could be pretty heavy.

[Brian Hale]

It's some tuff stuff but very workable and stable. It'll dull a set of steel jointer and planer knives in just a few passes so avoid that if possible or buy some carbide tipped blades. Chisels and planes blades will dull quickly. Splinters will break off in your skin when you try to pull them out and a couple days later the burning will bug the heck out of you. Avoid breathing any dust, many are sensitive to it.

Remember it's a tropical wood and is quite oily so finishing can be adventuresome. On the other hand you can sand it through 600 grit and get a nice shiny surface.

Use lacquer thinner on any joints just before applying glue to remove the oil. This is one of those woods that can't be forced together with clamps so make sure your joints are just a bit less than snug. If you force it, it'll split, now or next week.

It holds screws well but pilot hole must be sized correctly, somewhere between the major and minor diameter of the threads. Clearance holes for the "top" board required. Correct counter sink depths are also important as the wood will not give at all. Critical screws should get the final tightening by hand.

Brian :)

[Dave MacArthur]

http://tinytimbers.com/pdf/chart_janka.pdf

Great wood hardness chart, ipe is waaaaay up there, twice as hard as hard maple. check it out.

I read somewhere that the city of chicago or New York is the #1 user of Ipe in the world, for boardwalks, and because they spec clear no knots in huge lengths, only 1 in 50 boards or something will do, forcing huge cuttings and waste to meet the economic demand.

[Simon Dupay]

I wouldn't use a router to make raised panel ipe, way too much for a router I would use a shaper if poss. Did an ipe tread order yesterday at work I had to get help with a 5/4 14" 12' board! the thing was heaver then I am!

[Wayne Cannon]

I had no problem milling top rails for a deck out of Ipe with a half-dozen rip cuts per section, router bits (largest was a 1" roundover, though), dado set, and planer. Pitch build-up was worse than the dulling of the blades. Fortunately, Ipe doesn't have the silica to really dull your blades that Teak and many other tropicals have.

My contractors did go through over a dozen drill bits and almost as many counter-sinks when doing pilot holes for the deck, however. I don't know if the bits simply seized up because they begin to dull or gather pitch, or if they were overheating.

(1) Ipe is very heavy.
(2) The yellow sawdust is a sensitizing agent. Wear a respirator. The backs of my hands and forearms began to itch from the sawdust.
(3) Ipe is not as oily as many tropical hardwoods. Many report good success with Titebond glue for outdoor Ipe furniture (e.g., http://www.ipefurniture.com/faq.asp). However, keep in mind that Ipe is often used to represent a wide range of hard, dense, tropical woods, apparently with differing gluing characteristics -- a quick search of the web will return many comments about difficulty in gluing Ipe.
(4) It oils beautifully, but you need a very thin oil in order to have any absorption. My neighbor has one of the most beautiful gates I've ever seen made from oiled Ipe.

FWIW, I just read that Ipe has the same fire resistance rating as concrete!

[Keith Starosta]

One of my favorite woodworking quotes of all time was made in regards to Ipe..."It'll suck the sharp right out of your carbide."

:D

Good luck, Byron!

- Keith

[Byron Trantham]

Man, you guys ware a great help. FWIW the stuff weighs 4.5 lbs/sq ft for 4/4 (3/4"). So my panels would weight about 72 lbs each! I hadn't thought about my jointer or planner blades. I don't think I am going to need them as the customer is supplying the material ready to go except for width (table saw) and panel raising (router bits).

As one of you pointed out, a shaper would be a better choice but I don't have one nor do I have the floorspace for one so I will try the PC 3 1/2hp unit I have. For the money I may get for this job I can buy another router! ;)

I'll let you know if I got the job and if so how many blades/bits/router motors I used.:D

[Steve knight]

I would get maybe a month on jointer blades but I get several months on planer blades. thats working ipe purpleheart padouk and such.
gluing ipe is not great. you want a fresh joint and use titebond 3 for the best joint. but the joint will not be a strong as the wood. been working with ipe for 9 years and who knows how many bf of it. the dust is some of the finest out there and it will let you know how poorly your dc is really working (G)

[Steve knight]

(3) Ipe is not as oily as many tropical hardwoods. Many report good success with Titebond glue for outdoor Ipe furniture (e.g.,

FWIW, I just read that Ipe has the same fire resistance rating as concrete!

for the most part I don't agree with this. it is right up there in oiliness as cocobolo. slightly below but not much. oilier then padouk or teak . so far I have not found a glue that makes a stronger then the wood joint.

[Vince Shriver]

for the most part I don't agree with this. it is right up there in oiliness as cocobolo. slightly below but not much. oilier then padouk or teak . so far I have not found a glue that makes a stronger then the wood joint.


What about epoxy, like the WestSystem, cleaning surfaces with naptha or alcohol first?

[Peter Quinn]

The real interesting part is gonna be trying to push 26 pieces of IPE 24"X96"X3/4" across the router table to mill the cross grain ends.

I have a jig I use to do countertops which is basically a piece of hardwood 8"X22'x3/4" with a handle on one end and a hole drilled in the other. Its like a little router table, but used freehand. Maybe more like a jumbo offset base plate. I mount a 3 1/2HP router with a panel raising bit and raise the under side of a counter or mantle if its too heavy or bulky to push through the shaper or router table.

You want to have your wits about you when doing this and take light passes, but it works well for large items. I've done maple that was trying hard to chip out on me using a climb cut where the grain switched back...keep both hands on the tool at all times!

[Steve knight]

What about epoxy, like the WestSystem, cleaning surfaces with naptha or alcohol first?
I admit I have not tried epoxy party because I could not find ws locally and that it was not practical for what I did. but you don't want to clean the wood it draws the oil to the surface. just freshly mill or sand it to get a fresh surface.
one good glue if you don't need tight joints will be e600 it's industrial goop. it has been the best sticking glue I have found. the best joints between materials and wood I have found. it is flexible so it does not pop loose like epoxy can.

[Simon Dupay]

I admit I have not tried epoxy party because I could not find ws locally and that it was not practical for what I did. but you don't want to clean the wood it draws the oil to the surface. just freshly mill or sand it to get a fresh surface.
one good glue if you don't need tight joints will be e600 it's industrial goop. it has been the best sticking glue I have found. the best joints between materials and wood I have found. it is flexible so it does not pop loose like epoxy can.
I aways wipe it with acetone and use titebond 3, the acetone does not draw the oils the surface.

[Steve knight]

I aways wipe it with acetone and use titebond 3, the acetone does not draw the oils the surface.
I have tested the joints both ways and it was weaker after the acetone. one of the wood mags reported the same thing years after I tested it. well I tested it with gorilla glue. I had not tried it with yellow glue but back several years ago when gorilla glue made a better joint it was stronger without acetone cleaning.
titebond 3 will make a ok joint with ipe but the joint will break with little wood sticking to each piece. I have tested many of my joints since I work almost always with tropical woods and lots of ipe over the last 9 years.

[Steve Rayboy]

I have been building Ipe decks for 8 years...tons of Ipe. I pick out all of my boards, as there are a few different species (from the Tabebuia family). Some boards are almost blond, some reddish with yellow highlights, brown or almost black. The hardness varies greatly from blond to black...blond being the lightest/softest. You can find straight grained, figured, and psychedelic twisty grained. I try to pick out straight grained (more stable)for my decks, but there usually isn't enough available. Since your customer is supplying it, you don't know what you're gonna get.

I use a Forrest chopmaser blade on my Makita mitersaw, and find that I need to sharpen it once per season. Great blade, great mitersaw.

For adhesives, I use TB3, Gorilla and PL premium. I spline & screw together my miters, as I believe all adhesives will fail outdoors...eventually.

Steve

[Byron Trantham]

The real interesting part is gonna be trying to push 26 pieces of IPE 24"X96"X3/4" across the router table to mill the cross grain ends.

I have a jig I use to do countertops which is basically a piece of hardwood 8"X22'x3/4" with a handle on one end and a hole drilled in the other. Its like a little router table, but used freehand. Maybe more like a jumbo offset base plate. I mount a 3 1/2HP router with a panel raising bit and raise the under side of a counter or mantle if its too heavy or bulky to push through the shaper or router table.

You want to have your wits about you when doing this and take light passes, but it works well for large items. I've done maple that was trying hard to chip out on me using a climb cut where the grain switched back...keep both hands on the tool at all times!

I guess this was misleading. The FINISHED panel will be 24x96. Each of these panels will be made from 4 raised panels about 18x21 - much easier to raise!:D

[Scott Schwake]

There was a recent article (within the last year anyway) in FWW about glues for different types of joints and different types of wood, I remember IPE being one of the woods they used in their tests, may be worth checking out.

[Byron Trantham]

There was a recent article (within the last year anyway) in FWW about glues for different types of joints and different types of wood, I remember IPE being one of the woods they used in their tests, may be worth checking out.

Scott,
You're right. I will try find that article. Thanks