Alright, what's the difference??? Thermark/CerMark

[Barb Macdonald]

So we finally ran out of our CerMark, and I needed to order more, which I did. I'm lasering brush stainless. They sent Thermark LMM14.A6 Black instead.
My air-brush master/sprayer guy liked the spray can, but boy, was it scary to use for the first time. Why? It looks totally different!
The CerMark is sandy yellowy, the Ther is silver. The CerMark can't be wiped off with your finger, the TherMark can be wiped off with just a touch. NerveWracking....
Yes, the pieces were completely cleaned, I've used the CerMark all year, and have loved it so far, although towards the end of the CerMark can, I noticed the mark didn't seem quite as black.
After washing off with H20, the CerMark hadn't quite blackened in a spot or two, the TherMark was lovely and black, but the TherMark seemed to "bleed" a little bit. How soon after TherMarking the material can it be washed off? I did it almost immediately, and noticed a bit of black was coming off on my rag.
Was I rushing? That's certainly happened before, my enGRAVErs Disease being the real good rationalization I use. I'm hyperthyroid, I can get pretty intense/tense/whatever:)
My supplier said the TherMark was working really well for them, I phoned him right after we'd sprayed it, cause I really didn't like the wipe with a finger weakness, and that it was a silver colour. Just seemed like I was getting a totally different product, from what I had previously purchased. He said that shouldn't happen, maybe wait a bit. Well, I waited a half hour, the stuff still wiped off with a touch. Lasered anyway, and as I say, the mark is good.
Weird.....
Thanks for any and all thoughts.
Have a nice weekend:)
Barb
epilog legend ext 60 watt aka "Abigail", she's a GOOD machine. I tell her everyday!

[Brian Robison]

Barb,
You got it. The Thermark dries to almost a powder.
I use it a lot and I like the spray can better than the Cermark. I still use Cermark with a little brush and bottle for tiny part marking. I found that the Thermark worked better than Cermark on aluminum in a head to head test I did. Spray the Thermark on light, if it's too thick it will not "stick" as well. Make sure it's dry before lasering. A little trick is to have both the parts and the spray can warm before spraying.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Barb,

The simple answer is Cermark is ethanol base and Thermark is water based.

What this means is Cermark is more durable and dries faster you can spray several plates and then wrap them up and put them on the shelf to use whenever.

Thermark will scratch off very easy so pre spraying and storing is not a good option but it is non hazardous for shipping.

Cermark works well on most metals, Thermark seems to work better on softer metals Alum, Brass, Copper and it also sticks better to Chrome Plating.

This is what we have seen with our tests.

[Barb Macdonald]

Thanks so much! It hasn't 'zactly been warm in southern (HA!) Ontario, northern getting a snow hit today:(
So, that all makes great sense.
What are the opinions on the CerTape? Is it worth that much $$ ? Shelf Life? Does it have any?
Couldn't believe the price, sheesh..
Eliminating overspray, and that lovely smell, would be nice... But then, you couldn't re-use it?
But I still haven't gotten 'round to recycling the stuff. My airbrush/sprayer master guy doesn't believe me. I would guess that's easier with the CerMark?
I need a large glass container, right?
What a creek, thanks again. Now if I could just find the time to edit my sig...
Barb

[Sean Weir]

Hello Barb,

Mike's reply is pretty much right on, but I figured I could probably add an "official" reply!:)

The CerMark and TherMark products are all manufactured by Ferro Corporation. The CerMark brand name is held by Ferro. Ferro (Cermark) and Thermark have resolved certain patent issues and have cross liscensed all products. We (Ferro) manufacture and supply all of them. LMM-6000 is a CerMark product, and LMM-14 is a former TherMark material.

The LMM-14 and the LMM-6000 produce an equivalent mark, but there are some differences in the materials. The key differences are:

1. LMM-14 is water based, LMM-6000 is ethanol based. This means LMM-6000 dries faster, but costs more money for shipping because of the flammability of ethanol.

2. LMM-14 is black in color, LMM-6000 is yellowish. This means LMM-14 will absorb laser energy a little better, so you will need slightly less power (maybe 10% or more on some metals) to make a given mark with 14. This is why Mike and others have observed that the LMM-14 works better on certain metals that conduct heat very well.

3. LMM-6000 dries to a film, LMM-14 dries to a powder. Parts coated with LMM-6000 can be handled and stored after drying, but LMM-14 will brush off the metal very easily and must be handled very carefully. You have already seen this difference and can see the advantages of 6000 for stacking and storing.

To make a long story short, you would have to decide if you need a faster drying rate or the ability to stack precoated parts or be able to handle a coated part without fear of brushing the material off accidentally before marking. Also, if you do a lot of marking on the softer, more heat conductive metals, you might want LMM-14 because of the marking advantage.

The LMM-6018 tape does offer the advantage of convienience, but it does cost more because of the processing we have to do to produce a marking material in that form. You would have to decide if the convienience is worth the extra cost or not.

The tape also requires more power to make a marking. This is because the tape is not 100% active marking material like our dried 14 and 6000 is. The tape also has the paper backer, a binder that hold the marking material together and an adhesive to stick it to the metal. All of these have to be burned up while the mark is made. We usually recommend that the user has at least a 45-50 watt laser to use the tape. Lower wattage lasers may take too much time to make a mark, making some jobs not economically feasible.

Sorry for the long reply, but I hope this clears everything up for you. If you have any other questions, please feel free to let me know.

Sean