Making Big $$$ as a Plumber Woodworker

[Brian Kent]

Not wanting to hi-jack the real thread on making money on woodworking, I just wanted to let people know what an excellent living at least one fine craftsman makes as a plumber woodworker.

I recently went into my favorite orange store that no-one has ever heard of, needing to buy a new water heater - company coming in 3 days.:eek:

I decided right up front to pay the big bucks and have one of big orange's installers do it for me. I knew that would make that $399 water heater cost an extra $269. But what the heck, let's go for the $668 plus tax and get it done right!:)

The first friendly expert to arrive was in bike shorts, bike shirt, and stiff orange hair - normal plumber's work attire. He kept throwing his hands in the air saying, "I don't even know if we want to do this! You have old pipes!", which was none of his business, but I took that as a "no, I don't want to work for you" so I called back Hom... oops, I mean the orange store and said we preferred a different installer. He came back while I was on the phone and said he'd do it for $1300. That was really lucky for me because the lady on the big orange phone was telling me that is their only water heater installer in Riverside.

I won't go into the rest of the adventure, except to say that I clevery talked them down to a total price of $1,234 installed. Pretty crafty huh!;) I am a Junior High graduate so I am not just anybody's fool!

(Just glad I didn't have that $1,234 lying around any more - I might be tempted to buy a bandsaw or a jointer or a full set of Lee Valley Bevel Up Planes with enough left over for a set of Blue Spruce chisels and a Mike Wensloff Backsaw:().

So back to "Making Big $$$ as a Plumber Woodworker"!

One of the non-negotiable items was "$50 to drill a hole for the relief valve". I had never actually seen a $50 hole before, so I figured it must be worth it. So here it is, my friends, a $50 "Plumber Woodworker" hole:

[Dave Burris]

Man I am worth more than I thought. I had to replace my water heater late last year and did it myself (I'm broke). If I had known I could get $50.00 for simply cutting a notch in an external panel I would have given up my day job years ago!!

So ... where can I get some of those biker shorts?

[Eric Gustafson]

This is why I became a jack-of-all-trades. Not only does it cost an arm and a leg to have anyone do anything for you, but the work is ususally substandard. BTW, I have to replace my water heater this weekend. The last time I did it, years ago, I installed stainless quick on fittings. I expect the job to take no longer than an hour this time. :cool:

[alex grams]

Yikes, that amount of money makes me want to cry to pay someone to do that.

I'de be afraid my response to someone wanting to charge me 1300$ to install a water heater would wind me up in jail.

Have fun Eric, i just replaced mine a few weeks ago, and glad I did. You really have to tighten down the hose fittings though to make the compression rings seal tight. And then i would advise checking the heater a couple of times during the week or two after you hook it up so you can make sure all seals are tight.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

you seriously paid someone over $800 to install a $400 water heater??

I am so very glad that I learned basic plumbing skills ... not sure when our w/h is going to die, but I expect I'll do it myself...

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

deleted by Moderator

try to keep it family friendly!!

(but I'm still laughing just the same....)

[Rick Malloy]

A $50 hole, that is not round or square, must be art then;) Just a couple minor things I see, the wood he exposed is not protected from the environment and the pipe ends in front of some kind of vent. So if air goes inside thru the vent and there is water vapor being released at that time, I see a possible mold problem in your future.

As for the install crew from the local orange store, my wifes friend had them come out to finish off a couple rooms in her house. Unfinished bedrooms in a cape style houes, needed trim and closet doors. She is not a woodworker but the job they were doing was so bad she kicked them out and called the orange guys. They did not do anything until she went down to the store, grabbed the manager and drove him to her house. I guess a 60something lady yelling at you in German makes you move. She got her money back for the install. Unfortunately for her, she did have to replace all the work they had done including the doors they put in that needed to be "adjusted" (installers words) and did not open after that.

I saw the end result after she got someone decent out there. The stories I heard of the original work make me wonder what you need to pass yourself off as a carpenter in the building sector. Moral of that story and yours, when someone from an orange store offers to have an "installer" come out to do the work, be afraid, be very afraid. And find someone else to do it.

[Brian Kent]

you seriously paid someone over $800 to install a $400 water heater??



No way. I paid $834, not $800! What do you think I am, an idiot?:D

Just for the record, they also installed a new wood floor for the water heater closet for $25 and gave me a free "moisture relief" hole in the drywall.

[Eric Gustafson]

Have fun Eric, i just replaced mine a few weeks ago, and glad I did. You really have to tighten down the hose fittings though to make the compression rings seal tight. And then i would advise checking the heater a couple of times during the week or two after you hook it up so you can make sure all seals are tight.

I removed the water heater and reinstalled it a couple of years ago when I had the furnace/AC replaced. It made it easier for the crew to get it in and seal the duct joints. It wasn't too bad, so I am optomistic. The fittings on my hoses actually use rubber seals, which are easier to seal than compression ferrules or flange joints.

[Brian Kent]

As for the square (or at least non-round) drill hole, I figure it must have been done with a square-ended corner drill.

Or one of them drill-hammers.

[Ben Rafael]

Next time call a licensed plumber from the yellow pages. The going rate for water heater installs is about $350, and IMO that is overpriced.
I have a relative who is a plumber and does only water heater installs because they are fast, easy, generally not messy and quick money. He only charges $300.

[Travis Gauger]

We had to replace ours about three weeks ago too. Ours was still under warranty and I got a big story how I was still going to have to pay $300 because our model wasn't made anymore and I needed to buy a new one. I called the orange place back up and they confirmed it for me, yup have to buy a new one. I asked what the warranty was for then? To make a really long story short, about three weeks long. I took the old one out with a hammer and sat outside the orange store with a sign on it that said "this is what my lifetime warranty" It only lasted for about an hour before the police came and told me I was loitering and had to leave. I kindly explained to them that I was not loitering, I was a paying customer of the big orange store. I also explained that due to my warranty issue I was still a paying customer, even while talking to them in the parking lot. They went inside and about five minutes later they came back out, told me to have a nice day, and left. Then the manager came out and offered to fix this by giving me the new water heater at cost. I told him no thanks and that I had just taken a week of vacation in order to prevent as many people as I could from making the same mistake I did. He then replied with the right answer, and I have a new water heater, installed, with a lot of new pipes and hardware to repair my removal job of the old one. I still haven't heard anything on the invoice I sent them for wasting my time. I'll update the post if I do get a response.

[Ben Rafael]

Travis,
What brand water heater went bad?
I never heard of a lifetime warranty on one.

[Mark Engel]

I have had three experiences with installers from the orange store. All three wanted to charge more than the price quoted at the store because of 'special' circumstances. All three were politely asked to leave. I got my money back each time.

It seems to be standard practice to try to extort more money from the homeowner once the installer sees how 'difficult' the job is going to be.

[Brian Kent]

There were several additional parts that the plumber wanted to charge for, that were included in the stock installation. Additional parts that I could purchase at big orange for $5, the plumber sold for $55. I was not allowed to supply the parts myself. The additional markup was supposed to be for installation - the same installation that I was paying $269 for in the first place.

The next weekend I spoke with a friend who has a local air-conditioning company. He had obtained a plumbers license/certification so they themselves would not be ripped off. His company charges about $300 for a water heater installation, including the special fixtures to attach to my old pipes. For parts, he charges below MSRP instead of 1000% mark-up.

Needless to say, there is a big orange store whose installation services I will never again even consider.

[Anthony Whitesell]

On a previous endevour to have my windows professionally replaced I had written into the contract that the exterior trim will be replaced because it was rotten. They called back a week or so AFTER the contract was signed and said they needed $200 more per window to complete the work as specified. I measured the trim it was 1 3/4" wide and 3/4" thick and per their installation agreement (not my addition) all trim would be wrapped in white vinyl coated tin. I told them no, you signed the contract you're stuck with it. She told me $200 more per window for the materials. I told her I wanted to talk with HR. At $200 per window to install a tin wrapped 2x4, I'll work for them for the $200 per window, buy the materials from my own pocket, and install it in February in shorts.

THEY cancelled the order.

I found better windows for 40% the cost and did the job myself with my fathers help in about 20 clock-hours total.

[John Gornall]

I'm not a plumber but I do hotwater tanks for my friends and family. I keep a spare tank ready to go. Tanks are about 250 bucks. I've done about 2 a year since I was in high school. All my friends and family's tanks are plumbed with brass unions and drains to make it easy to change the tank. If all goes well it takes me about half an hour. I write the install date on the tank with a felt pen. I laminate the receipt and tape it to the tank and I put the manual and warranty in a ziplock and tape it to the tank. Tanks in this area last 5 to 7 years on a warranty of 5 years, however the last few tanks have a 10 year warranty - I'll see.

[Pat Germain]

What's really disappointing about these situations is I really want to respect trade professionals. Sometimes, I really want to hire a pro to do a job quickly and correctly while adhering to all codes. Why can this be so hard?

Obviously, there are still many good plumbers and other contractors around. But boy, they seem hard to find if you don't already know one. Time and time again I hear of lousy work, bad attitudes, overcharges and a big mess left behind.

Last week someone tried to steal my license plate. It would have come off easily by using a Phillips screwdriver to remove four screws. Instead, the thief just grabbed both sides of the plate and pulled. One side broke off. He left the other side at a 90 degree angle. Sheesh, even the criminals these days don't know what they're doing! (I'm wondering if he actually wanted to steal my car, but couldn't drive a stick. Seems a manual tranny is now the ultimate anti-theft device.)

I know there's a web site called Angie's List where people can report on lousy contractors as well as good ones. I think that's a great idea because it will reward those who do a good job. Too bad Angie's List isn't set up for Colorado. I'm pretty sure it is set up for SoCal.

[Eric Haycraft]

For 800 bucks I would have flown down, purchased tools locally, installed it for you, and still cleared enough money to make me happy.

[Carl Fox]

try to keep it family friendly!!

(but I'm still laughing just the same....)


Oops, sorry.

[Ken Werner]

Great story Travis G. I've sometimes wanted to pull a stunt like you did, but haven't had the nerve.

[Paul Simmel]

Old pipes… not the installer’s business… hmmm.

Please excuse **my** sarcasm, but since it is the only installer at the Riverside CA Home Depot, wouldn’t it be easy enough to get his side of the story at this point?

[Rob Russell]

Oops, sorry.

Not a big problem. Just imagine that you're a conservative family and ask yourself if you'd want your 8 or 9-year old daughter to read the post.

My personal sense of humor is a LOT different than what I'd post here :D .

[Bill Jepson]

Or the lack of education! I'm not very old, yet when I was in school we had to take a shop class (wood or metal) in high school. It seems like today the most technical thing most high-schoolers learn is how to send text messages on their cell phones. I don't want to hijack this thread for a rant, but why don't we have technical (trade) schools anymore? Many people aren't really cut out for college, and those people could usually make a respectible living as an honorable tradesman. Now all the yupster corporate lawer types want a perfect job in their house beautiful, and wonder why they can't find anyone to do the job! Or they wonder why the "imported" labor don't do it right.
Bill Jepson

[Dave Norris]

You will never (well, almost never) go wrong avoiding the borgs and buying from the hardware/plumbing/lumber/guy down the street. Odds are he is knowledgeable, he cares about his craft, and he cares if you come back. Just talked to a contractor who used to buy his tools at the borg. They would of course burn out early because they were made to the borgs price point, and not the usual manufacturer's specs. Seems there is a letter in the serial number to denote a borg power tool. He now buys his tools at the local tool center, pays about 8% more per tool, and saves about 92% a year because they last more than one year.

[Dave Stuve]

I second that 'buy local' - I hear nothing but good things about our local hardware store and our local appliance sales/service shops, and a never-ending stream of horror stories about our local Borg.

A friend of mine bought a water heater and waited three weeks for their 'installer' (who was from out of state) to arrive. He finally gave up and cancelled the install and had a local guy do it that afternoon.

Dave

[Jamie Munn]

We had to replace ours about three weeks ago too. Ours was still under warranty and I got a big story how I was still going to have to pay $300 because our model wasn't made anymore and I needed to buy a new one. I called the orange place back up and they confirmed it for me, yup have to buy a new one. I asked what the warranty was for then? To make a really long story short, about three weeks long. I took the old one out with a hammer and sat outside the orange store with a sign on it that said "this is what my lifetime warranty" It only lasted for about an hour before the police came and told me I was loitering and had to leave. I kindly explained to them that I was not loitering, I was a paying customer of the big orange store. I also explained that due to my warranty issue I was still a paying customer, even while talking to them in the parking lot. They went inside and about five minutes later they came back out, told me to have a nice day, and left. Then the manager came out and offered to fix this by giving me the new water heater at cost. I told him no thanks and that I had just taken a week of vacation in order to prevent as many people as I could from making the same mistake I did. He then replied with the right answer, and I have a new water heater, installed, with a lot of new pipes and hardware to repair my removal job of the old one. I still haven't heard anything on the invoice I sent them for wasting my time. I'll update the post if I do get a response.
Dude - you are awsome. COME SHOPPING WITH ME!

[Eric DeSilva]

No more installs from the orange store for me... At my old place, I had to have the front door replaced, and was in a bad spot at work, so I plunked down the cash to have it done. The installer showed up, I went back upstairs to work, and came down a few hours later...

To fully comprehend, you have to realize my "entryway" was at the far right hand side of my townhouse, looking from the front lawn. Upon opening the door, you entered a small "entryway" and were nose to nose with a coat closet less than 3 feet from the door opening. To your immediate right was the exterior wall. But, to your left was the living room.

Well, when I came down, I kinda looked at the left hinged door, which was installed, and asked him if he'd actually tried it... The way the door opened, you would come in the entryway and find the way into the living room was blocked by the then-open door. Not having sufficient room to get around it or open it further, you had to open the closet bi-fold door, step into the closet, close the closet door most of the way, close the front door, open the closet door, then go into the living room.

Even though they actually ultimately replaced it with a right hinged door, I've done my own work every since. Just hard to believe he got all the way through the install missing something that obvious...

[Bob Hallowell]

I still can't get over the fact you paid over $800 for a couple hour job. I am to cheap to hire anyone to do anything. I have taught myself how to tackle most all home repairs.

Bob

[Peter Quinn]

The Borg is not the place to buy your electrical or plumbing supplies unless you are in a hard spot. There are lots of specific shortcomings with their stock but the details are boring and the list is too long. Stay out of that hole, its a false economy at best and a nightmare at least.

I figure the best way to avoid being scammed on work is to stay out of the BORG. They don't treat their subs very well, they go through them like a dime a dozen, this is no way to run a business. Chances are the Borg is stiffing the sub, so he's trying to pass on the favor to you. The Blue borg is no better. I can tell you that in my area the guys who wind up talking those sub jobs from the Borg are not the cream of the crop...they're more like the ooze that settles at the bottom of your old water heater.

Growing up my grandfather and uncle were both plumbers, so I learned a thing or to as a teenager being taken to job sites. I do most of my own plumbing and know enough not to get duped by some hack when I hire some one else. Last summer I switched from an electric water heater to a tankless propane unit. The company doing the install took one look at my old pipes and said no way. The gas man's license covers only limited residential water line work. To meet the necessary volume tankless heaters require a rather direct 3/4" line uninterrupted from the main. The pipes in my old house were a labyrinth of ad hoc 1/2" copper resembling a Sousaphone connected with dubious old gate valves and innumerable crusty couplings. I was knee deep in a window job with a rapidly approaching deadline. I got the B- tank (acetylene torch) from my dad then decided to call a pro at the last minute.

This guy cut my pipe at the main line in, ran 65' of new 3/4" copper, connected the tankless heater, installed a beautiful boiler drain system, re-plumbed the entire house backwards from the new heater to my kitchen and bathrooms, replaced every old stop and waste valve with a new ball valves and built in stubs with valves headed to my unfinished second floor to make that project go better when its time. His work was some of the most handsome plumbing I have ever seen. Its beautiful, logical, neat and solid. He did all this for less than $1200. I guess the guy from the borg would have charged me $5000?

My guess from what you said (old pipes, special fittings?) is that you have galvi steel water lines? These require a dielectric union to connect to a copper coil, which costs about $1.75 and takes about 2 minutes to install for your average orangoutang, a real plumber can do it even quicker. If I had chosen to just replace my existing unit I could have done it myself in about 25 minutes, drain the tank, two fittings, rewire, pipe the new over flow release valve, done.

I special ordered (prepaid) a bath tub from them when I remodeled my bathroom because they were the only local vendor of the brand I wanted (though they did not of course stock anything decent by that company, just the bottom end of the line). I was told one month for it to come in. I called after a month and was told it had not arrived. Two weeks later I got a call that if I didn't pick up my tub that day it would be reshipped to the ware house and I would be charged a reshipping fee. When I asked why they hadn't call me, I was told the tub had been there for 5 weeks! I told them gentleman on the other end of the phone I was on a job and would be there with in a week, and if they restocked my tub I would drive my van through the contractors entrance and park it on the contractor services manager's desk with him still sitting at it, so check with him before sending anything with my name on it back.

When I went to get my tub several days later it was in fact still there, and they asked me if I would like to arrange for instalation! I nearly pee'd myself laughing out loud. I asked laughing still,"Who exactly are you going to send? Will they arrive three weeks early, sit outside my house, then call me two weeks late to demand payment? Do I look like a guy who needs a moron in an orange shirt in his home?"

[Ben Rafael]

Peter,
I've bought a few GE gas water heaters from HD over the years. They have been efficient and work without problems and were significantly less expensive than elsewhere.
Why do you say not to buy them from HD?

[Karl Brogger]

I don't need to replace my water heater but I've been kicking around doing it. The one I currently have is too small and I run out of water way faster than I'd like. I've been eyeing up Bosch on demand water heaters. Twice the money but I don't think it makes sense to heat water 24hrs a day when you only need it for 45 min a day. Granted the water heater isn't cheap, but neither is propane!

It pays to have friends in the trades. I may be fortunate but I could have an entire house built with labor from within my circle of friends. It's handy knowing electricians, plumbers, cement heads, framers, roofers, trimmers, you name it. The only thing I don't have is a friend who does cabinetry.:D

[John Browne]

I've pretty much been ripped off by every plumber who's come out to the house. Had one move a water heater from an unheated space:confused: to a heated closet. Asked me if I wanted him to go ahead and wire it up, I said, sure, save me doing it. Should have checked before he left--he wired a 220V hot water heater (30 amp) with 14 gauge wire.:eek: Guess it looked like a lamp to him...

[M Toupin]

PLz forward the name of your plumber, he's obviously a true artist and miracle worker.

He's SO good he can solder tarnished pipes and then put an outstanding old time patina on the copper. The green corrosion stain is a true stroke of genius, only a true master would have thought to leave that little touch of realism! Not to mention the cleverly weathered wood around the "hole". The guy is GOOD!

86194

Something stinks and I don't think it's the plumbing job...

Mike

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have a friend who makes cabinets. He actually charges less than either of the BORGS. Customers balk at 50% up front, until he reminds them at BORGS get 100% up front, including installation. As for me, I have always had my own business, even when working full time for others. Since leaving teaching twelve years ago, I haven't even printed a business card. The phone rings constantly. Usually I'm two months out on work. I don't schedule anything for Mondays as there is usually an emergency that will pop up over the weekend. Where I was working today, there was an addition job two doors down the street. Talked to the builder. They did a job last April across the street, then started this one in Oct. Next week when they finish, they are going down the street a couple blocks. Then after that job they are going into next block. Their work is good. One thing to always remember is to CLEAN UP DAILY. Nobody will complain to you about leaving a mess, but they will tell all their friends. Here locally is a plumbing company that isn't cheap, but their work is good. Most of their employees have been there over ten years. Word of mouth can be your greatest asset. But it only takes one oh ----- to cancel out a whole lot of atta boys.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter,
I've bought a few GE gas water heaters from HD over the years. They have been efficient and work without problems and were significantly less expensive than elsewhere.
Why do you say not to buy them from HD?

When I was shopping for my tankless heater I looked at a few brands, one of them was the Paloma brand. Can you guess who sells it? It was recalled as a serious safety hazard (carbon monoxide poising) last summer nation wide. Sure glad I didn't buy that one. Not their fault? They didn't make it, they just sell it? Exclusively. Fits into the low bid environment perfectly.

Oh, did I tell you about the door I fixed for my neighbor? Seems the Borg sub managed to install a steel door whose bottom missed the adjustable threshold by 1/2". Snow was coming in. Fortunately it was out of square and plumb too. After three call backs later with no improvement my neighbor called me. "Can you do it? Can you help? She asked plaintively. The list goes on and on and on....

I can't say no one has ever gotten a decent product from the Borg, but I have seen enough junk come out of there to be wary. I'd make you a list of the things I stopped buying there due to quality problems but its too long for this post. When you compare prices make sure you are comparing apples to apples as they often source 'licensed' versions of brand name products whose quality is below similar offers else where. And if you do have a problem with a product purchased there, good luck.

If you enjoy shopping there, have had good luck with their goods and have been given good service then I encourage you to continue that relationship. This has not been my experience generally.

[Ben Rafael]

The only thing I've bought there that is junk is their plywood.
Everything else has been fine.
Unfortunately I dont have many other reasonable options where I live.

[Peter Quinn]

PLz forward the name of your plumber, he's obviously a true artist and miracle worker.

He's SO good he can solder tarnished pipes and then put an outstanding old time patina on the copper. The green corrosion stain is a true stroke of genius, only a true master would have thought to leave that little touch of realism! Not to mention the cleverly weathered wood around the "hole". The guy is GOOD!

86194

Something stinks and I don't think it's the plumbing job...

Mike

Looks to me like the cheap borg sub may have reused some old pipe to save a buck. Its not a crime really to reuse old copper as a vent, possibly even good recycling of materials. You would have to see the other end of that setup to know the truth. Most over flow vents in my area are connected with a threaded brass elbow off the tank which would not be incongruous with this picture. Lots of ways to connect that old crusty pipe to a new tank. As for the rotten wood....fix that house man!

[Rob Will]

Around here, the plumbing inspector REQUIRES every water heater to be installed by a licensed plumber. At all stores including the BORG, they make you fill out some paperwork with your name and address. That way, the plumbing inspector can track you down.

I know a guy who buys water heaters from the know-nothing BORG and fills out the paperwork under the name of Seymour Butz.

Our plumbing inspector is probably out looking for Mr. Butz right now.:eek:

Rob

[Rob Will]

No more installs from the orange store for me... At my old place, I had to have the front door replaced, and was in a bad spot at work, so I plunked down the cash to have it done. The installer showed up, I went back upstairs to work, and came down a few hours later...

To fully comprehend, you have to realize my "entryway" was at the far right hand side of my townhouse, looking from the front lawn. Upon opening the door, you entered a small "entryway" and were nose to nose with a coat closet less than 3 feet from the door opening. To your immediate right was the exterior wall. But, to your left was the living room.

Well, when I came down, I kinda looked at the left hinged door, which was installed, and asked him if he'd actually tried it... The way the door opened, you would come in the entryway and find the way into the living room was blocked by the then-open door. Not having sufficient room to get around it or open it further, you had to open the closet bi-fold door, step into the closet, close the closet door most of the way, close the front door, open the closet door, then go into the living room.

Even though they actually ultimately replaced it with a right hinged door, I've done my own work every since. Just hard to believe he got all the way through the install missing something that obvious...

Eric, that is the best bone-head installer story I have ever heard. I just called my friend who is a master carpenter and told him about it. We are both ROFLOL.

Rob

[Travis Gauger]

Travis,
What brand water heater went bad?
I never heard of a lifetime warranty on one.

It was a GE gas 60 gallon. I don't think it had a lifetime warranty on it to be honest. But the thing was a higher end WH when we built our house 2 years ago. I think it may have had a ten year warranty on it though. My mistake.

[Monte Milanuk]

Man, threads like this make me feel a lot better about the guy that does my plumbing jobs... a shooting buddy of mine, he is one of those contractors that is constantly busy, and has a never-ending list of business via referrals. He does good work, and uses pretty high quality components and doesn't jack the customer (or at least me) on the prices.

Yes, I could probably do the simpler jobs myself (and have in the past)... but having watched him work he can fit pipes together better with a tape measure and mk1 mod 0 eyeball than I could w/ a laser level and dial calipers ;) He's also way faster, and I'm not worried about whether its up to current code or not.

Actually we've got a little 'community' of shooters around here... eye doctor, dentist, barber, plumber, car dealer service manager, etc. Nice being able to keep business in our little 'circle' and help each other out.

[Peter Quinn]

The only thing I've bought there that is junk is their plywood.
Everything else has been fine.
Unfortunately I dont have many other reasonable options where I live.

To continue the list...a basic wall receptacle from Borg, Levitron brand, is junk compared to one purchased from an electric supply house. They don't put the spring behind the wire screws to aid in attaching the wire to the device. You have to sort of 'shake' it sideways to keep the screw far enough out to bend the wire around it. While roughing out a basement remodel for my BIL I got to about the 5th plug when I threw a case of them in a dumpster and sent him to buy proper receptacles. I had told him not to purchase anything I would be installing from there.

I have purchased sheetrock screws from them in a pinch that were 30% waste due to so much slag in the heads they could not be installed. How hard is it to carry a decent sheet rock screw? Having purchased plenty of sheet rock screws else where in my life I know this is not normal.

Blue painters tape? Theirs sucks. I guess they are afraid it might pull that barely sticks to the wall Behr paint off if it were any stickier. Having worked in a commercial paint shop for several years I know from tape, and theirs is garbage. Hey, but you save $0.33 though right?

I could go on for days...florescent shop lights? Every one I purchased there has blown a ballast within 2 years...I have others similarly priced that have lasted for 5 so far without issue...coincidence?

They spec the bottom rung in every category, sell it just below the competition (who often sells a better grade which is usually a better value), unwitting DIY'rs and cut throat contractors purchase them, and soon there is no competition. They truly are BORGian. But in this case resistance is not futile.

[Mike Henderson]

This is a water heater story but a bit off topic. Whirlpool water heaters sold by Lowes for the past five or so years have a defective thermocouple. The symptom is that the pilot light goes out. You can re-light it but it will go out again, usually the same day.

The problem is that the Whirlpool thermocouple screws into the thermostat with left hand threads and a universal thermocouple has right hand threads. Whirlpool has a conversion kit which they will send you free which converts from left hand to right hand - but if you want it in a day (since you can't keep the pilot light lit) you have to pay the shipping (I think it's about $18).

What I did was cut my old Whirlpool thermocouple about 6" from the threaded part. You'll find an insulated central wire covered by a copper coating. Solder the central part onto the center of the universal thermocouple and use stranded wire to connect the outer casings together. Then screw back into the thermostat. Call Whirlpool (www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com (http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com)) - 877-817-6750 - and order the parts sent via regular shipment. When you get the kit, replace the klug I described above.

Mike

[If you have a fairly new Whirlpool water heater from Lowes (say within the past five years), you might want to call and get the conversion kit so if your thermocouple fails you can repair it quickly with a universal that you buy at the Borg.]

[Ryan Eldridge]

I am also amazed at the prices these guys can try to charge. I had a backed up sewer line the other day and at first I did not want to deal with it so I called a plumber he came over, I showed him where the clean out was and he said it would be easy.

I asked him how much and he opened his book himmed and hawed for a minute and said that it would cost $530 .... then he said since it is backed up that we should camera the drain just to see what could be making it back up, he said that would be an additional $240.

I about wet myself... but I had to remember the sewer was backed up so I could not shower. I politely asked him to leave and went over to home depot and rented a snake for $30.

I took me about an hour total to drive home clear out the line, take a shower, drink a beer and return the snake to home depot.

Arghh

[David Freed]

I will on occasion hire someone to do work of various types, but I won't use someone with inflated prices.

Our furnace went out a few years back, (during a below zero cold snap of course). My first phone call to a local heating and cooling business got me a quote of $1300 + $700 to install. That sounded too high for the furnace, and I wasn't about to pay someone that much to install it, so I made several phone calls and finally found a business a few miles away that had a new with warranty, brand name, high efficiency, lp gas furnace for $800. Their labor rate was much more reasonable, but it was the last week of december, and I had taken the week off from work, so I picked it up and with a few adaptations (different size and hookups) installed it myself. I have two small businesses and an hour or two on the phone has saved me hundreds of dollars several times.

As a side note, everyone I talked to said I needed a 60 or 70,000 btu furnace. Our house, that I designed and built myself 20 years ago, is 1300 sq ft with a full basement, and is very well insulated. Our old furnace was a 60,000 btu (recommended size), and even in the coldest weather, did not run a lot. The new furnace I bought was a 45,000 btu, and after using it for a few winters, it has proven to be the right size for our house.

[Leo Zick]

is this a joke thread?

interesting that they can install a vent pipe like that. seeing as how it is outside, are you referring to the gas vent on the top of the heater? if so, its not installed correct. it needs to point up, otherwise hot gas is gonna set your lawn on fire.
it should also have a metal plate around it to protect the wood from the heat. many local codes also have requirements to extend gas vents to roof level.

assuming its not gas vent, and its pressure relief (sort of big for that though), it should be inside. first, some local codes require a trap in plumbing lines installed that way. next, youre listed as living in CA, but if it gets cold enough to frost, you are allowing condensation to get into the pipe, and it could freeze up (stop operation, not frozen freeze) the pressure relief valve.

oy vey.. good luck. :)


ps- woodworker? im the most amateur one i know, but i know when its time to repair my house :o

[Brian Kent]

Old pipes… not the installer’s business… hmmm.

Please excuse **my** sarcasm, but since it is the only installer at the Riverside CA Home Depot, wouldn’t it be easy enough to get his side of the story at this point?

Sorry Paul. That was a poor attempt at a joke about my "old pipes" rather than the house's.

In reality, I have old iron water pipes that were corroded onto the old water heater fittings. That is the reason I did not do the installation myself. I couldn't take off the old fittings with my current tools and techniques, so I went for the $269 installation to let a professional do the work. And yes, the house's "old pipes" are definitely the installer's business.

I also was fine with the fact that he had added parts and labor to connect the new copper to old iron. I just didn't expect to boost the cost over $500 beyond standard installation costs.

[Brian Kent]

is this a joke thread?

interesting that they can install a vent pipe like that. seeing as how it is outside, are you referring to the gas vent on the top of the heater? if so, its not installed correct. it needs to point up, otherwise hot gas is gonna set your lawn on fire.
it should also have a metal plate around it to protect the wood from the heat. many local codes also have requirements to extend gas vents to roof level.

assuming its not gas vent, and its pressure relief (sort of big for that though), it should be inside. first, some local codes require a trap in plumbing lines installed that way. next, youre listed as living in CA, but if it gets cold enough to frost, you are allowing condensation to get into the pipe, and it could freeze up (stop operation, not frozen freeze) the pressure relief valve.

oy vey.. good luck. :)

ps- woodworker? im the most amateur one i know, but i know when its time to repair my house :o


1) No, it's real, but yes, I am using humor to get it off my chest!:rolleyes:

2) It is the pressure release pipe, not the vent pipe.

3) Once we had a deep freeze and it got down to 30°F. Sorry Minnesotans, I wouldn't have said that in the wintertime.

[Brian Kent]

PLz forward the name of your plumber, he's obviously a true artist and miracle worker.

He's SO good he can solder tarnished pipes and then put an outstanding old time patina on the copper. The green corrosion stain is a true stroke of genius, only a true master would have thought to leave that little touch of realism! Not to mention the cleverly weathered wood around the "hole". The guy is GOOD!

86194

Something stinks and I don't think it's the plumbing job...

Mike

The patina and weathering comes from the fact that I had this all done in November and up to this point did not have the nerve to admit how much I paid. The weathering on the door is pretty much because that old door is rotted through and through - plus a few months of rain and wind.

[Bob Feeser]

A surgeon needed his water heater replaced. So he looked up a plumber in the yellow pages. The plumber arrived, and spent an hour in the basement with the hookup. He came upstairs and handed the surgeon a bill for $700. The surgeon yelled, "Seven hundred dollars for an hour, I'm a surgeon, and I don't make $700 an hour". The plumber replied, "When I was a surgeon, I didn't make $700 an hour either". :D

[Bryan Berguson]

Travis,
What brand water heater went bad?
I never heard of a lifetime warranty on one.


Marathon brand water heaters have a lifetime warranty against leaks. If it leaks, it gets replaced. This isn't the brand the OP is talking about though, Marathon only has reputable dealers...:cool:

Bryan

[Charles P. Wright]

ps- woodworker? im the most amateur one i know, but i know when its time to repair my house :o
I try to repair my house most of the time, but if it is something that can cause an environmental disaster (like an oil fired water heater), messing it up can mess up an expensive boiler (like my indirect water heater), or blow your house up (like my parent's gas water heater), I wouldn't touch it. I guess in other parts of the country electric is common, but it doesn't seem to be so common in NY.