PC 24" Omnijig

[Ray Scheller]

Anyone have any thoughts? I would love to hear feedback from owners as I'm looking at this jig for a project I have coming up.

[Eric Haycraft]

Anyone have any thoughts? I would love to hear feedback from owners as I'm looking at this jig for a project I have coming up.

I assume that you are talking about the newest one.
There have been a few posts about it on here and I do own one. If looking at top of the line, I would say that it beats the d4r in many respects; however, it may be overkill for most people. Another one to look at if you don't need the best of the best would be the superjig from leigh.

[Jeff Monson]

I recently purchased a 24" omnijig, coming from a 6212 pc jig I cant say that its 400 dollars better. :(

I ended up spending $549 on the jig and $47 for the dust collection attachment which IMO should definatly come with the jig. The dust collection chute works very well.

My 1st project for the jig was some variable spaced 1/2 blind dovetails for a chest of drawers, the drawers are made of 1/2" baltic birch ply. I followed the "recipe card" and tried some cuts on scrap wood and they were not even close, I ended up going 1/8" more shallow on the cut to get the joint to fit, so I dont take much stock in the "easy setup" with the preset depth guides. I ended up spending alot of time to tune in the jig for the cuts and was happy with the results.

However when switching to different stock thickness, my last setup will be lost unless I purchase more of the side gages that set the cutting bar depth.

The jig comes with 1 bit that will cut alot of different thicknesses but there are 6 more bits that PC offers, I ordered the set directly from PC for another 119$ and received them yesterday. I would also like to try the other bar that cuts sliding dovetails but its another $130 dollars and I'm not ready to spend more money right now.

The jig is very heavy and well made, the router support bar is nice and works very well. After watching the videos on the PC website, Norm makes it look like a piece of cake to setup, I haven't found it to be that easy, but I haven't cut any 3/4" stock yet. I'm planning to cut some through dovetails with it soon and will get a better feel for the quick setup then. Its a nice jig but its very spendy when you start adding up all the extras.

[ben bigley]

I agree with Jeff on most points. I can't see why the dust port isn't included. The jig is very well made and a HUGE improvement over the previous Omnijig. I'm looking to buy most of all of the accessories available including the narrow pins so that my dovetails will look handmade. I would buy this jig again but when its all said and done I will have closer to $1,000 into the system not including the routers. It seems everything is available as an add-on. ($) I too took my time learing it after viewing the DVD and spent the better part of the day perfecting my first cuts. I'm in it for the long haul so price wasn't a factor me- mini dovetails and mini box joints as well as the narrow pins are what had me sold.
Ben

[Eric Barker]

Mine was just delivered yesterday. I'll report back later. ;)

[Wayne Watling]

Hi Ray,

I purchased the 24" Omnijig and am currently experiencing problems like those mentioned by Jeff, the variable spaced half blind dovetails are so tight that they wont fit together without significant work with a chisel. I have tried raising the router bit 1/8" but it still didn't solve the problem. The manual suggests to raise the bit a fraction if the joints are too tight.
Today I spent some more time on the phone with the PC technician who got me to measure the diameter of the bit and it was 4/1000th of an inch under 1/2" so they are going to send me a replacement bit just incase that is the issue. I have my doubts that this is the issue as the difference to make the joints fit together is just too great in comparison.
At this point that is the only joint I have attempted so can't give you any more info other than to point you to this recent thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=78123&page=2

after manually pairing back the tails to make the joints fit together they do look quite good.

Would be interested to hear from Jeff or any other PC Omnijig owners if they have managed to solve this issue.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Michael Boyle]

I got mine a week ago Saturday and I have to say I really like it. I had a 12 inch older style Porter Cable and there is no comparison. The new Omni Jig is a very extensive joinery system that I believe is almost a study unto itself. I have really only gotten to work on it for a short time, other things always seem to get in the way of my workshop time, but during that time I was able to create some nice through dovetails. I agree that the video makes things seem easier than I found them to be. I was able to get things dialed in after a few test cuts, after that everything was very smooth and repeatable. I cannot say if it is worth the premium price over the Leigh d4r jig since I do not have any experience using that unit. Mine did not come with the dust port but it did come with the tool box. I purchased the dust port from Woodcraft which I installed last weekend. I also agree that is should come with the dust port as standard equipment, but that is not part of the deal at the moment. I do believe if you purchase the Omnijig you will be very happy with it. It is truly an impressive piece of equipment that is obviously designed to last a lifetime.

[Jeff Monson]

Wayne, I dont feel my issue is resolved, I had to raise my bit along way to get the joint to fit, this creates a problem with the slot for the drawer bottom. With the bit only cutting 3/16" of an inch that means the drawer slot can only be 3/16" also or you will see the cut through the dovetail!!!

My feeling is the bit or the guide is wrong for 1/2" material. With my old 6212 jig the bit was set alot deeper on 1/2 blind dovetails allowing a deeper slot for the drawer bottom.

There has to be an answer to this.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have the old model 24" Omnijig and it is perfect. Works great. Solid!

[Eric Haycraft]

My impression was that it was the collet too since a half inch dovetail is far shy of 1/2 inch once adjusted.

[Ray Scheller]

Thanks for all the feedback. Makes me want to wait until the jig has had more time in the market place. I know new products go through a transition period where issues are discovered and the company tweaks things to get them resolved so maybe I'll wait several months and then take a look. I'm not in a big hurry so speed to buy isn't an issue. Again thanks for the feedback.

[Bill Jepson]

Hi Ray,

I purchased the 24" Omnijig and am currently experiencing problems like those mentioned by Jeff, the variable spaced half blind dovetails are so tight that they wont fit together without significant work with a chisel. I have tried raising the router bit 1/8" but it still didn't solve the problem. The manual suggests to raise the bit a fraction if the joints are too tight.
Today I spent some more time on the phone with the PC technician who got me to measure the diameter of the bit and it was 4/1000th of an inch under 1/2" so they are going to send me a replacement bit just incase that is the issue. I have my doubts that this is the issue as the difference to make the joints fit together is just too great in comparison.
At this point that is the only joint I have attempted so can't give you any more info other than to point you to this recent thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=78123&page=2

after manually pairing back the tails to make the joints fit together they do look quite good.

Would be interested to hear from Jeff or any other PC Omnijig owners if they have managed to solve this issue.

Thanks,
Wayne

Wayne,
I don't know what the problem you are having is, as mine is the old 24" omnijig. I can tell you this though if you have to move the bit 1/8 INCH :eek: there is something radically wrong with the set up. Once I'm set up a move of .010 inches is quite noticable. Are these through or half blind dovetails? If you are cutting through dovetails for 1/2 boards the dovetail shoud be 1/2" deep period. The movement of the bit should be very small. normally so small you barely notice the the change. Like some others I also suggest that you make the pins just longer than the 1/2" depth that way you can sand of plane flush the everything will look great.
Bill

[Wayne Watling]

Thanks for all the feedback. Makes me want to wait until the jig has had more time in the market place. I know new products go through a transition period where issues are discovered and the company tweaks things to get them resolved so maybe I'll wait several months and then take a look. I'm not in a big hurry so speed to buy isn't an issue. Again thanks for the feedback.


Ray,

I think your wise in waiting, at least until this problem is resolved one way or the other and until a little more feedback arrives about the other joints. As I said I've only attempted variable spaced half blind DT's but i'll post results of through DT's soon.
Luckily the jig comes with a full 90 day return no questions asked policy which I will be using if it doesn't get resolved.

Best,
Wayne

[Wayne Watling]

Wayne,
I don't know what the problem you are having is, as mine is the old 24" omnijig. I can tell you this though if you have to move the bit 1/8 INCH :eek: there is something radically wrong with the set up. Once I'm set up a move of .010 inches is quite noticable. Are these through or half blind dovetails? If you are cutting through dovetails for 1/2 boards the dovetail shoud be 1/2" deep period. The movement of the bit should be very small. normally so small you barely notice the the change. Like some others I also suggest that you make the pins just longer than the 1/2" depth that way you can sand of plane flush the everything will look great.
Bill

Bill, these are variable spaced half blind DT's not through DT's.
Even after raising the bit 1/8" the joint would still not come together so that didn't solve the problem. You're right though, it should only require a tiny adjustment to solve these types of issues otherwise it suggests something more serious is wrong.
After talking a little more with the technician who inturn spoke with the engineers they now want me lower the bit to 5/8" to see if that helps.:confused:

If anyone else is having these issues with the jig I suggest you call PC support and let the technicians know, if possible try to speak to Fred, that way he can report back that more than one person is experiencing the problem.

Wayne

[Steven Bolton]

I saw one of these jigs today. It looks like a pretty serious machine. What is this, that you can use it for 90 days and return if not satisfied? Is that anywhere or just at select dealers.

It would take me 90 days to figure out how to use it.

Steve Bolton

[Mark Grotenhuis]

I have had the same problem with the joints on a half blind dovetail being way too tight. I also raised the bit almost 1/8 inch with no result. I measured my bit and found that it is .498" instead of .500" however I don't see this as the primary problem. I think it has to due with the router collets. I measured the size of the router collets and they are as follows:
G0... 0.665"
G1... 0.624"
G2... 0.608"
G3... 0.591"
G4... 0.578"
G5... 0.560"
G6... 0.461
I was using the G3 collet guide for 3/8" tail height in half blind dovetails like the card said to do. Then I switched to a G4 collet to see if I could get better results; and it worked. The joints were still tight, but not impossibly tight. I think I may even try the G5 collet out next time to see if the joints come out perfect. I'll call porter cable tomorrow and try to find out what the outer dimension of the router collets are supposed to be. Maybe they are having quality issues and machining the collets to the wrong sizes.

[Wayne Watling]

I measured the size of the router collets and they are as follows:
G0... 0.665"
G1... 0.624"
G2... 0.608"
G3... 0.591"
G4... 0.578"
G5... 0.560"
G6... 0.461

Interesting Mark, so that makes it 3 people with the same problem. I routered another 2 sets today using the 1/2" bit but at a depth of 5/8" as suggested by PC tech support but had the same result.
I measured the width of the tails at their widest point, and the corresponding gap in the pin board and there was a different of approx 1/8". So to get it to fit I'd have to pair back 1/16" from each side of each tail. Clearly not right.

Out of interest I measured the collets with a Starret and they came out pretty close to yours.

G0... 0.664"
G1... 0.623"
G2... 0.609"
G3... 0.596"
G4... 0.577"
G5... 0.561"
G6... 0.469"


Regards,
Wayne

[Wayne Watling]

I saw one of these jigs today. It looks like a pretty serious machine. What is this, that you can use it for 90 days and return if not satisfied? Is that anywhere or just at select dealers.

It would take me 90 days to figure out how to use it.

Steve Bolton

> It would take me 90 days to figure out how to use it.

Steve,

LOL, its not that difficult ONCE you watch the video and read the manual a few times. It comes with very good diagrams on the machine and a little card to keep close by to help you in the beginning. I've done about 6 half blinds and dont need the card any more.

I just checked that warranty in the manual again and perhaps the 90 day guarantee doesn't apply to the jig. There are three headings.

Three year limited warranty - (includes defects)definately applies.

1 year Free service - (includes worn parts, and labor) definately applies.

90 Day money back guarantee - ???
It states: If you are not completely satisfied with the performance of your PORTER-CABLE Power Tool, Laser, or Nailer for any reason. you can return it within 90 days from the date of purchase with a receipt for a full refund - no questions asked.

After reading the last one it probably doesn't apply because its not a power tool.
I really dont want to return it, I'm more hoping there is a fix or its simply a matter of some further guidence.

Wayne

[Jeff Monson]

I measured my bit and collet from my old 4212 jig, (which cuts 1/2 blinds very nicely) and find it very interesting.

bit .528
collet .610

omnijig

bit .498
g2 collet .605 (which my card suggested for 1/2" material)

I think there is definately an issue with the collets PC is suggesting to use. There is a .15 difference in the 2 setups which would make a huge difference.

[Mark Grotenhuis]

Well look at that! The outer diameter of the collets are listed on the back of that handy little card. It says:
G0 is 85/128" ... which is 0.664" Mine is 0.665
G1 is 5/8" ... which is 0.625" Mine is 0.624
G2 is 39/64" ... which is 0.609" Mine is 0.608
G3 is 19/32" ... which is 0.594" Mine is 0.591
G4 is 37/64 ... which is 0.578" Mine is 0.578
G5 is 9/16" ... which is 0.563" Mine is 0.560
G6 is 15/32" ... which is 0.469" Mine is 0.461
G7 is 3/8" ... which is 0.375" I dont own this one
G8 is 23/64" ... which is 0.359" I dont own this one

So basically my collets are in their designed specifications, at least within a few hundreds of an inch, which is acceptable in most applications. So that cant be the problem.

I find Jeff's comment and comparison between the old 4212 jig and the new omnijig very interesting. However Jeff I don't understand where you said your card tells you to use a g2 bit with half inch material... do you mean your card tells you to use the g2 collet when routing a 1/4" tail height in half blind dovetails? I usually route 3/8" tail heights in half inch material... which my card says to use the g3 template.

[Mark Grotenhuis]

Man this is confusing... I just realized that I goofed my first post on this subject I have now edited my collet numbers in that post accordingly. Sorry to confuse you guys. Just for the record
G0 is the biggest collet
G8 is the smallest collet

Why make the biggest number the smallest collet, and the smallest number the biggest collet? To confuse guys like me I'm sure.

[Eric Haycraft]

Hmm.. Makes me wonder if it is the pins being the wrong width or perhaps the documentation calls for the wrong collets. I only had a big problem with the variable spaced half blinds.

[Mark Grotenhuis]

I'm pretty sure its just wrong documentation. However my problems with the half blind dovetails have never been terribly bad... just a hair too tight. Even in the worst case I could still bang them together with a large hammer and hard blows, but it shouldn't be that hard. I should be able to put them together with very little force.

[Wayne Watling]

A quick update. Today I took a call from the engineer who designed the Omnijig, he is aware of this thread and is being very helpful. After doing a few more test joints based on his feedback it appears that the G5 collect is the correct one for the 1/2 bit. Later tonight I'm going to do a few more joints and we'll know for sure but it does seem that this is the case and its more or less an error in getting the documentation inline for the collets and bits.

This seems to agree with what Mark found, so its looking good.

Will report back later this evening.
Wayne

[Roger Lance]

As an owner of the old omnijig...what you guys appear to be saying is that the boards are too tight to go together...that is the pins are too big for the tails to fit...so you have to decrease the width of the pins and increase the width of the tail sockets...if you use a smaller diameter guide bushing, both of these objectives would be obtained with all other variables held constant...good luck.

[Joe Spear]

Maybe they numbered the template guide sizes like wire gauge: the lower the number, the thicker the wire or the bigger the template guide diameter.

[Eric Haycraft]

Thanks for the update. I'll magic marker an update onto my jig. I had a hunch that was the problem when I adjusted the 1/2 inch VS half blinds and the pod ended up the same height as the one next to it. I guess that I will have to undo my adjustment.

[Dennis Peacock]

I have the old model 24" Omnijig and it is perfect. Works great. Solid!

I have the old version as well. Used it a LOT and I like it.

[Craig D Peltier]

They had this jig 2 nites ago on cool tools tv show. It was at a trade show booth and the porter cable rep showed the host how to do. Obviuously the PC guy was very knowledgeable on the jig an whipped out a joint very quick. He made it look easy, the fit was flawless. He showed some black rubber head that you set your bit too depth on that comes with jig I guess.
Think they said $549.

[Ray Scheller]

I really stirred up the pot with my thread but this feedback is tremendous as I'm thankful I didn't jump in and buy one before I asked you owners for your views. I look forward to the findings from your tests and I hope you publish the results and any learnings you get along the way. I still want to buy one in the future if you guys solve the puzzle of using the jig. Thanks

[Jeff Monson]

Mark,

I did use the g2 collet, I was using 1/2" material so I thought 1/4" tails would be the right figure. I set up the router with the g2 collet and the d4 bit, adjusted the bit depth with the appropriate stop and the joint was not even close to fitting, I moved my bit up until the joint did fit and the tail ended up just slightly over 1/8". So what am I doing wrong? Am I calculating my starting tail height to low?

BTW Thanks for all the good information :o

[Steven Bolton]

I have a router which has two collets. One is 1/4 in and one is 1/2 inch.

I keep reading about collets with the Omnijig. I think I counted 8 different collets in one post. That is a lot of collets.

Are these collets different than the ones I am thinking of? Have I always been confused about what a collet is. To me, it is a round metal sleeve that tightens the router bit. I think on the Omnijig it may/must be something different.

Steve Bolton

[Joe Spear]

You're right about what a collet is. I think what people are calling collets are the template guides, which screw into the router baseplate. The bit goes through them, and the collar or sleeve or whatever you call it contacts the template finger and limits the travel of the bit to the places it is supposed to cut.

[Steven Bolton]

Thanks. This is a lot of collar guides.

Steve Bolton

[Wayne Watling]

It appears like the problem has been solved. Using a G5 template guide instead of the stated G4 guide with the 1/2" dovetail bit produces perfect variable spaced half blind dovetails. The PC guys are very thankfull that we brought this issue to their attention and were very helpful getting to the bottom of it. I got the impression that over the evolution of the jig they just messed the documention up for the template guides as they apply to variable spaces half blind DT's.

Here is my latest joint routered using the G5 guide, D4 DT bit and the B1 stops. The fitting was perfect, just a little tapping with a rubber mallet, nice and tight once fit toether. The front face is over an inch thick and the side is 1/2" thick oak but the depth of the tails is a full 1/2" which is what I need.

Thanks for everyones help.

Wayne

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l227/woodworkingpics/Porter%20Cable%20Omnijig/halfblinds.jpg

[Steven Bolton]

What if you used a 5/8 inch (approx) pin board and a tail that was 1/2 inch long. This would give you a small end grain showing on the joint and I think it would look pleasing. Do you think this could be done without a lot of horsing around?

How many collar guides come with the jig.

Thanks

Steve Bolton

[Wayne Watling]

What if you used a 5/8 inch (approx) pin board and a tail that was 1/2 inch long. This would give you a small end grain showing on the joint and I think it would look pleasing. Do you think this could be done without a lot of horsing around?

How many collar guides come with the jig.
Thanks
Steve Bolton

Absolutely Steve, for those test joints I was using up scrap material. Now the problem is resolved I'll be doing a bunch of drawers similar to what you described. Infact the thickness of the face board is flexible, its up to you as long as its thicker than the depth of the router bit. The thickness of the tail board for this particular setup should be approx 1/2", you can change that but you would need to change your setup. So the jig is setup from the factory to do what you want, just ensure you use the correct template guide i.e use the G5 guide not the G4 stated in the documentation. All up there are 7 guides.

Here is an example of a joint that I did with this Omnijig with a thinner face board. You can probably even go a bit longer with the tails and the joints would still come together, although the longer you go the tighter the joint. The engineer mentioned that he is working on more advanced level instructional material with information on how to do much longer tails and other joints with the jig, should be out later this year.
One of the tips he gave me was to ensure the fingers are flat down against the pin board before tightening the fingers down, if there is any gap then a corresponding gap will be left between the end of the pins and the tail socket.

Wayne

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l227/woodworkingpics/Porter%20Cable%20Omnijig/blindDT1.jpg

[Steven Bolton]

Wow, that is nice. And now it is completely repeatable?

Thanks. Much nicer looking half blind in my opinion.

Thanks

Steve Bolton

[Walt Caza]

Thanks to all posters,
I have been following this thread with great interest. The new Omnijig has been
on my wishlist for quite some time.
I am sure many others have been quietly watching as well.
It seems a documentation problem has been discovered, PC has been
made aware, and a solution found...very nice and tidy resolution.
The test joints shown look good-as-gets by router.

Rather than collets, the guides in question are usually called guide bushings.

Thanks for a solid thread,
Walt
:)

[Mark Grotenhuis]

Mark,

I did use the g2 collet, I was using 1/2" material so I thought 1/4" tails would be the right figure. I set up the router with the g2 collet and the d4 bit, adjusted the bit depth with the appropriate stop and the joint was not even close to fitting, I moved my bit up until the joint did fit and the tail ended up just slightly over 1/8". So what am I doing wrong? Am I calculating my starting tail height to low?

Jeff,
No your using the right setup according to the quick card. However I would recommend using the g3 or g4 collet (or template guide, whatever you want to call it) instead of the recommended g2 collet. This will make a big difference in your fit. Set your bit up for the full 1/4" tail height and use the g3 collet ... still too tight? Then use the g4... still too tight? use the g5... get the idea here?

I usually use a 3/8" tail height in half inch material. There's nothing wrong with what your doing with only setting it up for 1/4" tail height. Its just a personal preference.

[Wayne Watling]

Mark,
Jeff,
However I would recommend using the g3 or g4 collet (or template guide, whatever you want to call it) instead of the recommended g2 collet.


Yes the G3 should be correct for 1/4" tail hight. So if you want to change your documentation to the correct template guides then it would be as follows:

For Variable spaced half-blind dovetails (only)
1/4" - G3
3/8" - G4
1/2" - G5
5/8" - There is none for the 1/2" router bit (I'm going to ask them what to about this)

Wayne