Help with Ols Craftsman Saw Setup!

[Keith Oliver]

I just inherited a Craftsman 10" Table Saw, probably bought between 1970 and 1975. Cast iron top with steel extensions. I received it in pieces - wings off, etc. Put it together today. Noticed the cranks for the blade height and tilt adjustments were stiff so I oiled and greased them. They work really free now but the crank that brings the blade up has something wrong with it - if you keep the pressure on it (in towards the saw) the blade comes up but when you let go the whole threaded rod backs out (away from the saw) and the blade goes down on its own. Won't stay up. Obviously there is something broke in there that is supposed to keep it in. Is there anywhere on the web that would have an exploded diagram of how this works so I can see what's missing?

First post here. Maybe I'll even learn to use this if I get it fixed!

Any help would be appreciated.

Keith

[Lee Schierer]

There should be a snap ring inside the trunion that holds the threaded rod in place. This could either be loose or missing.

Go to theSears web site and check the repair parts area. They give exploded parts views of appliances and other things that they sell parts for. I just ordered a part for a garage door opener there today. You will need the model number of your saw, which should be located on a plate on the side of the saw.Sears Parts (http://www3.sears.com/) If you don't have any luck there, pm me and I will try to scan my manual though my saw is newer than yours, I don't think the design changed all that much. They have my saw parts breakdown.

[Randy Moore]

Hey Keith,

From the looks of the thread count and when it says you joined (March 2004) you are new here. Well let me welcome you to Saw Mill Creek. It is a friendly bunch of people but sometimes the pick on someone. I have asked a few questions and got some darn good answers. There is a lot of good WWers here. Again WELCOME.

If you don't have your saw fixed let me know and I will make copies of my owners manaul and US Snail Mail it to you. You will have to PM me.

Randy

[Keith Oliver]

Thanks for your replies, Lee and Randy.

Yes, I am new here. Not even a "novice" woodworker yet! (Gee, I don't even know the correct names by which I should be calling the parts!)

I took the saw apart again today, including removing the whole cast assembly from the table top. Other than the problem I mentioned, eveything seems in good shape, just needs some cleaning up and lubricating. The cast iron top was a bit rusted but not pitted. I used a bit of CLR and did some scrubbing and it turned out quite nicely. I found the problem with the "up/down crank thingamajug": as Lee mentioned, it is indeed a missing snapring. The thin washer is still there but not the ring to prevent the rod from pulling out. I'll pick one up tomorrow and put it back together.

There is no model number on the saw; I looked high and low. It does not appear that any plates are missing, no worn decals, but one might have peeled off. The actual cabinet is in exceptional shape for its age. Mom says Dad bought it around 1972, give or take a year or two. On the decal on the right side that says "Sears Roebuck, USA" and "Simpsons-Sears, Canada" (Simpsons-Sears changed their logo to Sears in 1971 according to their website - I live in Canada) and warns to use an overload circuit or delayed 15 amp fuse, there is a printed number: 803410A along the right side from the bottom up. It does not say anything about this being a Model number. On the cast iron assemply inside the number 152834 is cast. I've been searching wherever I can find on the 'net but can't find a manual or parts list. I know my father had one one time but...

Do you have any suggestions about how I might determine the Model number and find a manual/parts list?

Another thing, my father used this saw on a 220 circuit. The guy who had it for the past few years changed it to 110. Apparently its the same motor but I know little of these things. Would the saw work better on 220 as far as handling the load? Do you suggest that I change it back? Is there anywhere on the web I can find directions to do so?

Thanks again

Keith

[Tyler Howell]

Welcome to the Creek Keith . We like folks that just wade on in. You looked Hi & Lo. Did you look on the side. Left to be exact. Check for gunk (tech term) in the teeth of the height adjustment assembly. Also teeth missing or flat spots on the screw drive too. Dry lube is also recommended to prevent attracting dust to the mech. parts.
I found a screw driver 2 unrelated nuts and a cassette tape in the demo modal I got from Sears years ago. I was able to get a good idea of the operation of a different machine that belonged to a friend using my owners manual. Search sears web for any modal in that time period.
Well worth wiring up for 22o. More guts, more glory. Lots of threads on the forum for wiring your shop.

Good luck;)

[Lee Schierer]

Here is the model number of my saw. 113.298720. (All sears Model numbers are 3 digits a period and six more digits.) It was located on a plate on the left side as you face the saw just above the bottom edge of the housing where the stamped steel legs are bolted on.

When you put the new snap ring in make sure it goes in the right way. The sharp edge of the ring should be toward the worm on the end of the shaft.

[Keith Oliver]

Tyler:

Thanks for the welcome. Nice place here! Yes I looked on the sides. Nothing at all on the left and only a decal like I described in my last post on the right.

Can you suggest a suitable type of dry lubricant?

Lee:

Thanks again. Looked at the diagram for your saw. Almost like mine except mine doesn't have a guard over the belt (at least it doesn't now). Your's also appears to have a round hole in front of the blade slot; mine doesn't. My saw has the fence rail in the front in two pieces - one in front of the main table and a separate extension on the left side extension. There is no rail at the rear where the fence just slides along and grips the table itself.

Can this saw take other types of fences - non-Craftsman?

Keith

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Keith,

Welcome to the Creek!

Probably the biggest advantage to rewiring your saw for 220 is that it will run cooler because it draws less current.

Good luck getting you saw in running order.

Ken

[Chris Padilla]

Keith,

Welcome to the Creek!

Probably the biggest advantage to rewiring your saw for 220 is that it will run cooler because it draws less current.

Good luck getting you saw in running order.

Ken

Is that really true, Ken? The power draw (energy if you like) is the same whether wired for 110 or 220 (current is halved).

[Keith Oliver]

Now that I have it all apart and am cleaning it, what is the recommendation for lubricating moving parts? Tyler mentioned "dry" lubricant. This many seem stupid, but I don't know what he means by "dry" except graphite powder of the like.

Keith

[Tyler Howell]

Is that really true, Ken? The power draw (energy if you like) is the same whether wired for 110 or 220 (current is halved).You asked Ken but yes power transfer is essentially the same (in an ideal world) More volts, less current = less volts, more current.=Power in watts. Resistance, loss in heat blah, blah blah... will reduce the ability to do work. There's a formula some place that I can't shake loose. A cooler running saw isn't waisting energy heating up the air. I've noticed there is no wind-up time. My BS, Jointer and DC Jump to attention since I cut them over to 220V
TTFN
Keith : something with teflon for a dty lube. Let me check the shop for a name.

TJH

[Dominic Greco]

Tyler mentioned "dry" lubricant. This many seem stupid, but I don't know what he means by "dry" except graphite powder of the like.

Keith,
The stuff you want to lube the internal mechanism of your saw with is called Dow Corning Dry Film Lubricant 557 Silicone (http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/DisplCtlgPage.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=1981&CtlgEdition=&sesnextrep=404250062999966&ScreenWidth=1024&McMMainWidth=492#.), McMaster Carr part # 1254K12 . Since this is a "dry" lubricant, it will not collect sawdust as oil or grease would. But for best results you have to clean the mechanisms with mineral spirits to remove any oil or grease. Just wipe them down a bit with a rag dampened with mineral spirits.

All of the advice you've gotten here is good. I should know, I've restored my fair share of tools. I restored my 10" Craftsman Tablesaw twice actually. Once when I got it, and then again after it had been in my flooded shop. So I can pretty much take it apart blindfolded. You can read more about that in my article titled "Restoring Power Tools After a Flood" (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/articles/5/). This in the Articles Section of SMC. The article also details how to flatten and clean a cast iron tablesaw top. You might find that information useful.

Good luck.

[Keith Oliver]

(I thought I had repled yesterday but it seems it did not make it here - probably floating somewhere in cyberspace).

Well, I got the clip and put everything back together after cleaning the innards and putting dry lubricant on all moving parts. Couldn't find teflon-based but did find a silicon-based spray that I used. Hope that will be OK.

Saw seems to run fine, for all I know about it! I checked the fence to the blade and see that it is out about 1/8" front to back of the blade. Don't know if the fence is out or the blade is not true. I'm thinking of getting a book to show me how to properly set it up. If its the fence, as I suspect, maybe I'll have to look at getting a replacement.

I still haven't figured out what model my saw is. None of the diagrams of the Sears model numbers that I've been able to find seem to be the same - either the extensions, turning wheels or something else is different in the exploded diagrams. I'll probably take some photos and post in a different thread to see if anyone else has the same machine and recognizes it.

Thanks to everyone who helped me here. Great group!

Keith

[Dominic Greco]

...Couldn't find teflon-based but did find a silicon-based spray that I used. Hope that will be OK.

....I checked the fence to the blade and see that it is out about 1/8" front to back of the blade. Don't know if the fence is out or the blade is not true. I'm thinking of getting a book to show me how to properly set it up. If its the fence, as I suspect, maybe I'll have to look at getting a replacement.

Keith,
Don't scrap the fence just yet! Sounds like you need to align the blade to the miter gauge slot first. This procedure is covered in the book, "Mastering Woodworking Machines" by Mark Duginske, Taunton Press, 1992. The author walks you through the entire procedure.

An aftermarket accessory for contractor saws that might help you out is the PALS (Precision Alignment Jig) as sold by Woodcraft. I'm not sure of the price. By adding a allen headed set screw, it makes the adjustment and future readjustments much easier. I had one on my old saw and it helped me out a lot.

This trunnion alignment procedure must be done first in order to align your tablesaw. This makes sure the blade is aligned with the slot. After that, you align your fence to the miter slot. Then if the fence is really out, and can't be brought back into spec., then you know it's time to get a new one.

If you find that you need to get another fence, check out this months issue of WOOD Magazine. They have reviewed about (12) different fence systems.

Good luck!

[Carl Eyman]

[ The model number should be on a rivetted on plate in the lower left corner. That is looking from the back (motor side) go to the lower left and I think it is right around the corner. That is on the side of the machine. I'll check when I go to the shop later today.

By all means run it on 220V. It will work much better. A lot of theorest will tell you it makes no difference, but in practice it does. The rewiring is explained in a diagram on the underside of the oval shaped cover that covers the wire housing on the motor.

When you find the model number (and I'm sure you will) we'll check and see whose manual will apply and get you a copy.

[Tyler Howell]

Keith,
Tri Flow is the name of the dry lube. I see you are are all hooked up by Dominic in that department. PALS is running about $25.oo
I have a Bi Polar relationship with my Craftsman TS. Today we are friends. You can spend lot's of mony on upgrades for your saw and get some improvement with each add on. But it is still a 30+ year old machine. The sentimental value is in it self worth refurbishing the saw. Do a search on this sight for Craftsman TS repairs and mods. Lot's of people have burned many an electrons supporting and blasting this item.


More Good Luck.

[Keith Oliver]

Thanks again everyone

Besides the book Dominic mentioned, I saw "The Table Saw Book" at a hardware/building supplies store yesterday. Seems to have a bit it it about setting up/adjusting a saw as well as basics of its use. Are you familiar with that book?

I posted another thread asking for help in identifying the model number of the saw. There is no plate on it.

Keith

[Dave Falkenstein]

To address your question about after-market fences fro your Craftsman saw: There are several fences that will work on that saw. I had a Craftsman contractor saw for many years and upgraded it with a Biesemeyer fence system. That turned the saw into a pretty darn good woodworking machine. Biesemeyer still sells kits for Craftsman saws. Other fence systems that you might want to consider include Mule, Incra and Jointec. The alignment issue you have is most likely due to the fact that you had the saw apart. You will need to follow an alignment process to get the blade lined up with the miter slot, and then the fence and blade aligned. Do the alignment BEFORE you try using the saw. One thing I discovered about my Craftsman saw - it worked much better after I stopped using an extension cord. If you must use a cord, be certain it is a 12 gauge cord, and as short as possible.

[Carl Eyman]

Keith- I goofed. (not 1st time) The serial is right behind motor on the cross rail. I am e-mailing you picture. Carl

[Carl Eyman]

Here is Picture. The plate is the shiny spot center of picture on bottom cross rail.

[Chris Padilla]

Keith,
The stuff you want to lube the internal mechanism of your saw with is called Dow Corning Dry Film Lubricant 557 Silicone (http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/DisplCtlgPage.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=1981&CtlgEdition=&sesnextrep=404250062999966&ScreenWidth=1024&McMMainWidth=492#.), McMaster Carr part # 1254K12 . Since this is a "dry" lubricant, it will not collect sawdust as oil or grease would. But for best results you have to clean the mechanisms with mineral spirits to remove any oil or grease. Just wipe them down a bit with a rag dampened with mineral spirits.

Dominic, I see that the temp range of the 557 is pretty limited on the high side at 110 F. Should this worry me?

The PTFE High Temperature Dry Lubricants look interesting, too. Any experience?

Thanks!

[Keith Oliver]

Here is Picture. The plate is the shiny spot center of picture on bottom cross rail.

Read your post, ran immediately up to the garage to check.... not there on mine! I had everything off and even checked inside. The closest thing to a number was the stamp in the cast iron trunion: 152834. Searched on that and could find nothing except for another guy in 1999 looking for the same info on his saw.

Thanks anyway.

Keith

[Keith Oliver]

....There are several fences that will work on that saw....The alignment issue you have is most likely due to the fact that you had the saw apart. You will need to follow an alignment process to get the blade lined up with the miter slot...

I want to make sure the saw itself is accurate before I put any money into it. I don't want to spend $300+ (I'm in Canada!) on a fence only to find the saw itself is out. I just checked the blade from the right miter slot - there's about a 1/16" difference front to back (of the 10" blade fully up). What is a tolerable variance? I didn't see any adjustment for this when I had it apart but possibly loosening the 6 bolts that hold the whole thing to the cast iron top and moving it slightly may look after this little bit.

I'll have to get a book that addresses accuracy. Dominic suggested, ""Mastering Woodworking Machines". I couldn't find that one in the bookstore I was in today and will have to order it. I've also heard "The Table Saw Book" by Meyers (?) is a good resource as well. Have your heard of that one? That's available locally if its worth the price - about $30CDN.

[Chris Padilla]

Keith,

Correct...you must nudge the top to get the miter slot PERFECTLY lined up (parallel) with the saw blade. Use a rubber hammer or dead blow or hammer and a chunk o' 2x4 and only sligthly loosen the top. Whack it in the right spot, check it, whack it, check it. You may need to loosen or tighten the bolts depending on how much the top moves per whack.

Get the miter slot and saw blade dead parallel. Also, make sure your saw blade isn't out of whack since it is your reference.

My tools of choice for machine alignment/adjustment are the following:

Feeler Gauge Set (http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/473.cfm?)

Starrett Precision Straight Edge
(http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/groups.asp?GrpTbl=2&GroupID=396&GrpTab=Spec)

Master Gage and Superbar (the plate is superior to any saw blade to ensure accurate alignment)
(http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/224.cfm?)

And, finally, a good solid machinist square.
(http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9640)

These items aren't cheap but if you want good solid repeatable way to set-up most woodworking machines, the above items will go a long way to doing this.

There was a thread about these not long ago (do a search on 'straight edges'...you might find it) but there are certainly much cheaper alternatives to what I list. The above are what I personally own and use.

[Carl Eyman]

Now the truth can be told. After I found my nameplate I took the motor off so I could examine more closely. I had remembered them being rivetted on - hard to take off. Guess what? Mine was held on with Tape!
So much for memory. If you have any fence problems I have my old fence you can have any or all of. I'll take the number off mine and give you that. As someone else mentioned you can go to Sear's site and bring up a parts list. Might be helpful even if it isn't same number.

[Keith Oliver]

...If you have any fence problems I have my old fence you can have any or all of. I'll take the number off mine and give you that. As someone else mentioned you can go to Sear's site and bring up a parts list. Might be helpful even if it isn't same number.
Carl, boy! that is really nice of you to offer me your old fence. However the cost of shipping it would likely be more than it would be worth. If I can determine what the model number of my saw, I can either order one from Sears or look into an aftermarket one. Either way I think I'll need a model number to ensure a fit.
Do you think your saw is the same as the one I have? Possibly even a different model saw with different extensions, different crank handles, or the like would have the exact same table (holes, slots lining up) and therefore maybe my saw would take a fence made for one of those??? As my blade is only out about 1/16" I think I can true that pretty easily. The fence I have may then suit my purposes in the short term - may just need extra caution/checking to ensure it is true each time I use it. I want to ensure I'l be using it enough to warrant spending money on it.

Thanks again for your offer.

Keith

[Dominic Greco]

Dominic, I see that the temp range of the 557 is pretty limited on the high side at 110 F. Should this worry me?

Chris,
If the inside of your saw sees that kind of temperature rise, you'd better look out the window to see if you're not on the planet Mercury! :D

All kidding aside, I've used that dry film stuff on my Unisaw for the last 4 years. You know how often I need to re-lube? Once a year,....maybe! The trunnions, and internal mechanisms never get anywhere near that hot. Even if I'm running the saw during the summer. And it gets pretty hot in my garage during the summer.

I mean, how would they? Heat from friction? If thats the case, the bearings are shot and I'm in more trouble than I thought. But I would know if the bearings were good or not. And the motor is out of the way and has an internal fan.

So in short, 557 is perfect to use. No worries!

[Ben C Johnson]

I think I just bought an identical saw at an auction last week. There is absolutely no identifying nameplate beyond "Craftsman" and it has the same casting number in the table. I was wondering if you ever found a manual for it. I realize this posting is 7 years old, but that's the wonder of the 'net.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ben, If you check the OPs profile, he hasn't checked in since May of 2004. I doubt he will reply.

[scott spencer]

I think I just bought an identical saw at an auction last week. There is absolutely no identifying nameplate beyond "Craftsman" and it has the same casting number in the table. I was wondering if you ever found a manual for it. I realize this posting is 7 years old, but that's the wonder of the 'net.

Ben - Many of these Emerson and Ryobi made Craftsman saws are very similar to the Emerson and Ryobi made Ridgid saws. If your saw looks like the ones below with an outboard belt drive induction motor (regardless of the wing material), the manuals from any of them should be of some help.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Craftsman%20saw%20parts/cman2.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Craftsman%20saw%20parts/cman3.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Craftsman%20saw%20parts/r14.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Craftsman%20saw%20parts/r11.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Craftsman%20saw%20parts/r9.jpg

[Keith Oliver]

I think I just bought an identical saw at an auction last week. There is absolutely no identifying nameplate beyond "Craftsman" and it has the same casting number in the table. I was wondering if you ever found a manual for it. I realize this posting is 7 years old, but that's the wonder of the 'net.

Ben, no I never did find the model number or manual for the saw.

Keith

[Jerome Hanby]

It's been years, but we used to use a Teflon based spray lubricant called Triflon. We were using it for gunsmitthing and I believe were buying it from the same store that we bought powder and other reloading supplies. I just googled it, but only see very old references to it...


(I thought I had repled yesterday but it seems it did not make it here - probably floating somewhere in cyberspace).

Well, I got the clip and put everything back together after cleaning the innards and putting dry lubricant on all moving parts. Couldn't find teflon-based but did find a silicon-based spray that I used. Hope that will be OK.

Saw seems to run fine, for all I know about it! I checked the fence to the blade and see that it is out about 1/8" front to back of the blade. Don't know if the fence is out or the blade is not true. I'm thinking of getting a book to show me how to properly set it up. If its the fence, as I suspect, maybe I'll have to look at getting a replacement.

I still haven't figured out what model my saw is. None of the diagrams of the Sears model numbers that I've been able to find seem to be the same - either the extensions, turning wheels or something else is different in the exploded diagrams. I'll probably take some photos and post in a different thread to see if anyone else has the same machine and recognizes it.

Thanks to everyone who helped me here. Great group!

Keith

[Myk Rian]

I've used bees wax instead of oil or grease.