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Chris Padilla
04-07-2008, 4:31 PM
Hi Everyone,

Looking for some pics and ideas about gates you've built.

http://www.pacificgateworks.com/ sorta wet my appetite to build a new gate for the new fence my neighbor and I are putting up between our houses. I like the idea of using some nice clear Western Red Cedar to make it out of as well.

I plan to get locks/hinges/hardware from Lee Valley as they have some nice stuff.

Let's see some pics! :D

Cheers!

Terry Bigelow
04-07-2008, 4:55 PM
Finshed this last summer. Has taken quite a beating being on the west side of the house but still looks o.k.. BTW, got all the hardware from Van Dyke's Restorers. They got some pretty cool stuff too and good prices to boot.

Chris Padilla
04-07-2008, 5:10 PM
Very sharp, Terry! Cedar? Redwood?

Chris Holder
04-07-2008, 5:32 PM
Hi Everyone,

Looking for some pics and ideas about gates you've built.

http://www.pacificgateworks.com/ sorta wet my appetite to build a new gate for the new fence my neighbor and I are putting up between our houses. I like the idea of using some nice clear Western Red Cedar to make it out of as well.

I plan to get locks/hinges/hardware from Lee Valley as they have some nice stuff.

Let's see some pics! :D

Cheers!

Hi Chris,

David Marks did an episode where he builds a garden gate. You can see dimensions and design pics here. http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ww_decorative_furnishings/article/0,2049,DIY_14441_3573821,00.htmlI thought it would be a cool project. Good luck!

Terry Bigelow
04-07-2008, 5:38 PM
Very sharp, Terry! Cedar? Redwood?

Ha!! I wish! Try......good ol' pressure treated pine!!! Sorry to dissapoint but I had a budget man!!

Jamie Buxton
04-07-2008, 6:02 PM
Here's a pic and some construction details from one I built.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9669

Wayne Cannon
04-08-2008, 1:39 AM
We made frame and panel entry and garden gates plus a wide sliding gate in western red cedar left to weather gray. The lower panel was a cedar raised-panel; the upper panel was a metal grid. The entry gates were of clear WRC, while the others were #2 common. The latter are actually more attractive than the clear, in my opinion, but I was unable to avoid some broken knots along edges and panel trim. Received lots of compliments on them all.

There were two problems related to cedar, however.

(1) Cedar is soft and very easily dinged/scraped by mowers, wheelbarrows, and carried loads -- though I have to say that the weathered patina wears the dings surprisingly well.

(2) The tanins (?) in cedar react with iron to create black streaks. I thought I was being careful to use stainless bolts, stainless finish nails for the trim, and galvanized hinges and cane bolts. Wear points around the hinge and cane-bolt hardware's galvanizing results in ugly black streaks. Same problem with powder-coated hardware. Someone suggested a thin plastic spacer between the hinges and the cedar to prevent contact at those wear points. Other alternatives I've considered are fiberglass hinges, remaking the gates in a different wood, or living with cleaning the streaks (oxalic acid).

Brian Penning
04-08-2008, 5:36 AM
Some ideas here...
http://www.prowellwoodworks.com/gates/index.htm

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 10:55 AM
Here's a pic and some construction details from one I built.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9669

Jamie,

Most excellent and great tips! I plan to build the gate like a door just as you outlined. I'm 0/1 on finding some nice clear Western Red Cedar but I've only just started. I plan to use my Domino heavily in this project.

Gate dimensions will be around 4' wide and around 7' tall. Gee sounds like an awfully large door!! Hmmm, I wonder if it'll need a gate wheel for added support. This could be a rather heavy gate! Dry cedar weighs about 21 lbs/ft3. Hmmm....

I picked up the following hardware from Lee Valley:

Hinges (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=56487&cat=3,41241,41268,56507), Locking Latch (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=56489&cat=3,41241,41268,56507), Gate Closer/Tensioner (http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=45855&cat=2,2180,33227), and a couple of handles (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=56223&cat=3,41305,56340).

Should be fun!

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 11:03 AM
We made frame and panel entry and garden gates plus a wide sliding gate in western red cedar left to weather gray. The lower panel was a cedar raised-panel; the upper panel was a metal grid. The entry gates were of clear WRC, while the others were #2 common. The latter are actually more attractive than the clear, in my opinion, but I was unable to avoid some broken knots along edges and panel trim. Received lots of compliments on them all.

There were two problems related to cedar, however.

(1) Cedar is soft and very easily dinged/scraped by mowers, wheelbarrows, and carried loads -- though I have to say that the weathered patina wears the dings surprisingly well.

(2) The tanins (?) in cedar react with iron to create black streaks. I thought I was being careful to use stainless bolts, stainless finish nails for the trim, and galvanized hinges and cane bolts. Wear points around the hinge and cane-bolt hardware's galvanizing results in ugly black streaks. Same problem with powder-coated hardware. Someone suggested a thin plastic spacer between the hinges and the cedar to prevent contact at those wear points. Other alternatives I've considered are fiberglass hinges, remaking the gates in a different wood, or living with cleaning the streaks (oxalic acid).

That is some good information, Wayne, to keep in mind as I plod along this project. I think what I'm getting from Lee Valley will be fine (steel reinforced nylon). The hinges will be on the non-show side.

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Some ideas here...
http://www.prowellwoodworks.com/gates/index.htm

Ooooooo!!!! Good stuff there, Brian!! Real good! :D Thanks a lot!

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 11:07 AM
Hi Chris,

David Marks did an episode where he builds a garden gate. You can see dimensions and design pics here. http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ww_decorative_furnishings/article/0,2049,DIY_14441_3573821,00.htmlI thought it would be a cool project. Good luck!

I wonder what a sheet of copper like that goes for nowadays! :eek:

Chris Holder
04-08-2008, 11:32 AM
Ha!! I wish! Try......good ol' pressure treated pine!!! Sorry to dissapoint but I had a budget man!!

Hey Terry,

What did you use for stain? I've heard many people that had trouble finishing pressure treated materials.

Jamie Buxton
04-08-2008, 11:39 AM
I'm 0/1 on finding some nice clear Western Red Cedar but I've only just started.

IIRC the cedar for that gate came from PALS, in the San Francisco yard. They have a yard in San Jose, closer to you, but I don't know what they stock.

I'm not convinced that a gate wheel is a good strategy. Ground isn't flat, so the wheel would be touching the ground only in a few spots. Furthermore, ground in San Jose shrinks in the summer as it dries out. I think a better strategy is a very sturdy post for the gate to hang on. In that pictured gate, I anchored pressure-treated 4x4 in concrete, and sheathed it with 4/4 cedar. If you have a post on only one side, maybe a 6x6 would be better. Another approach might be steel for the post, either sheathed or not.

I used bronze square-drive screws (from McFeeleys). They weather to the color of an old penny, which goes nicely with the cedar. For higher contrast, you could use stainless.

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 12:23 PM
I might look at these J-bolt pivot hinges (http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=778) as well. They would be a much cleaner nearly invisible looking hinge that I could mortise into the post slightly.

I called PALS here in SJ and they don't carry cedar at all. Economy Lumber in Campbell does carry construction grade but he said he has some clear stuff that I can pick through since I won't need much for the gate.

I'm thinking 2x6 material for the frame and 1x6 material for the filler. Thoughts?

I have a 6x6 post to anchor to but I'll need to lag bolt another 6x6 (or whatever) to that in order to pull the gate out from the fence.

I'll have some pictures up soon if I can ever remember to take some! :)

They have gate wheels that are spring-tensioned (http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=1206).

Chris Padilla
04-08-2008, 4:10 PM
Hmmm, how to go about cutting and attaching the pickets for this arched top gate? I plan to use my Domino for most of this but I'm unsure how to approach the arch and picket connection.

Jim Dunn
04-08-2008, 9:11 PM
Raises my hand and shouts---"let me answer, call on me teacher"

You could route a slot along the top edge, and cut mortises on the bottom rail. Then cut tenons on the pickets.

Do I get a good grade?

Chris Padilla
04-09-2008, 3:14 PM
So I attached a few files of the fence area that will get a new gate. The new one will go in the spot where the old one is leaning against the house there near the hose reel.

It will bolt directly to the 6x6 post there (PT Douglas Fir) and I have another 6x6 that will bolt to the house. Rough size is 4' wide by about 7' tall.

I picked up a load of cedar this morning. Got some 2x6 by 8' with "lottsa character". My J/P will get a workout this weekend cleaning up this stock. It is rough on one side. This will be the stiles and rails.

Also picked up some 1x6 material for the lower panel. This stuff is clearer but still has some character. :D

Oh, yeah...the gar..err...shop needs a SERIOUS cleaning before I start on this project.

Chris Padilla
04-09-2008, 3:28 PM
I threw this together in Sketch-Up. Since the fence has a square top my wife decided on square top as well.

And since the fence is topped with a lattice structure, I will incorporate that into the top panel as well.

I will add some sublte curves to the rail tops and bottoms and sllightly lower the rails as I think it softens the gate look a bit.

One thing that bugs me about this design is water entrapment. I'm wondering if I should drill holes all the way through the grooves cut out in the rails to hold the panels and lattice work. Any thoughts there? Should I attempt to seal the grooves or something?

We plan to stain the gate some to get it a bit darker.

Should be interesting working cedar...never did anything with it before.

Cary Swoveland
04-10-2008, 1:38 AM
Jamie,

Have you considered Alaskan yellow cedar? Compared to red cedar, it is harder, stronger, splinters less and holds fasteners far betters. It machines beautifully and is a pleasure to work with. I think the two are similar in terms of resistance to insects and rot.

Lee Valley sells a gate latch that I really like: http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=47817&cat=3,41399,48019 . The self-adjusting design has an important benefit other than its ability to compensate for a sagging gate: the up-down movement acts as a shock-absorber when the gate is closed. That significantly reduces the stress on the screws holding the latch.

Cary

Chris Padilla
04-10-2008, 5:30 PM
Cary,

I got a lockable gate latch (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=56489&cat=3,41241,41268,56507) from Lee Valley because wifey requested such a beast.

As a shock absorber, I will be using the Kant Slam Gate Closer (http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&p=45855&cat=2,2180,33227) from Lee Valley. My door will be heavier, I believe, than what this one is rated for so we'll see how it does.

Chris Padilla
04-11-2008, 11:26 AM
I'm still looking for some ideas on how to do the bottom of the panel slats as they will sit in the top of the bottom rail. I'm concerned about creating a trap for water and dirt over time. Same thing for top of the middle rail where the lattice will reside.

Dennis Peacock
04-11-2008, 11:31 AM
Hey Chris....what's that so close to your house??? Is that another house that is THAT close to your place????

Chris Padilla
04-11-2008, 11:34 AM
Oh, that is my shop, Dennis! :D (yeah, I WISH!!!)

We're REAL friendly here in the big bad Bay Area of California! ;)

Chris Padilla
04-14-2008, 4:37 PM
So the first order of biznitch was to rip the 6x6 PT fir (log? beam? tree?) in half because it dawned on me that I didn't need such a large post on only ONE side of the gate. I could split it and get a 2 for 1 deal!

Weeeellllll, my skills on the BS forced me to bring out the jointer plane and do some flattening. :o Boy did I work up a sweat on that one but it was fun...making PT curly shavings. Next, I sealed/stained the fresh PT face even though it wouldn't show, I figure it wouldn't hurt.

Next was to drill some holes and space to inset the washer and head of the bolts.

So I held the post in place on the wall and plumbed it up and I'll be darned if in order to make it plumb on the face, it need tipped away from house 3/4"!! That is a scrap of MDF holding out the top there.

Chris Padilla
04-14-2008, 4:47 PM
Yeah, after all that hard word redoing my shop, I had to tear into the sheetrock in order to securely bolt the post to the house. Drywall is easy to fix even if a real PITA. However, I had to disconnect a section of my DC, too! :mad: *sigh*

LOL, my daughter took this "live action" shot of me recutting the post to fit my crooked house. That is my MM20 with a nice Timberwolf 1/2" blade chewing up that post in nothing flat.

I did a much better job slicing a taper off the post...just free-handed it baby!!

Ah, nice 'n plumb on the face! That will make the gate swing nicer, too. Of course, with such an adjustment, my 7" bolts are officially too long! Off to the h/w store for an exchange.

Chris Padilla
04-14-2008, 4:55 PM
Yep, them 7" bolts ain't gonna work now!!

I got a lil' bit fancy and stoped he taper cut early to find up against the foundation. I was as shocked as the next guy when it fit quite nicely!

Tonight I'll bolt up the post and work on bolting the hinges to it. They will be inset so some chisel work and router work are up next. Actually, I may not permanently bolt the post in yet...would be nicer to work on the hinges on the bench....

Chris Padilla
05-12-2008, 1:37 PM
I haven't updated this in a bit but I am still, SLOWLY, working on it.

While these j-bolt hinges I've decided to use are incredibly strong and will be kinda sorta hidden on the gate, they have been a real PITA to deal with. I guess when you only pay $12 per hinge, they aren't going to be constructed to ANY tolerances. They don't swing level and true through a full 180 degrees. Thankfully, I only need 'em to swing 90 so I can correct for that as you can see in the pics. I have a nice straight piece of fir I used as a test to get it plumb throughout it's swing. That's KINDA important on a door or gate doncha think?! :mad: Sigh....

Okay, I got one board swingin' true...what could be next with these hinges I wonder.... The size of the bolt is 5/8"-11 (coarse thread)....

Chris Padilla
05-12-2008, 1:37 PM
About that 5/8"-11 bolt. That's KINNA big! :confused: I WUNNER what size nut, diamter-wise, that bolt needs? I FURTHER WUNNER what size socket that there nut needs?? :mad: What did I just plane all my 2x6 (rough on one side, construction grade) cedar down to to get nice wood? 1.3"? Yes, 1.3".... :o

I find that the typical 5/8"-11 nut needs a 15/16" socket which, on average, add about 3/16" to the socket size to get its outsdie diameter and I'm seeing that this isn't going to fly. Darn hinges....SIGH!

Wait! I'll just buy some smaller nuts and RETAP them for 5/8"-11 threads!! :D Gosh, 5/8"-11 taps aren't easy to find and when I do find one, it is kinda pricey...along with the 17/32" drill bit I need to go along with it. :( Gee, my tap wrench in my nice Sears Professional Grade tap 'n die kit isn't large enough to handle this 5/8"-11 tap; more money but Sears happily sells me a larger tap wrench. Oh well, it'll SOLVE my problem!! I even set myself up on the drill press to get things all nice and straight...and they turned out anything but straight. They wobbled around on the bolt like some child's toy and considering what to do to get things flat and level made my head hurt so....

....I found out that they make 5/8"-11 COUPLERS that require a 7/8" socket to turn them so I just bought myself another 1/16" of extra wood on either side of this hole!! :D The coupler was 2" long and I could just hacksaw myself 4 nuts out of it, easy as pie!! Uh...NO. I hacksawed 2 nuts out of it because they were the only ones with the factory face nice 'n square. I couldn't cut a flat face to safe my life and should have bought 2 couplers. SIGH!

Oh, 5/8" washers are HUGE! Lucky me, for once, I found some "precision" brass shims 1/8" thick x 1" diameter with a 5/8" diameter hole. PERFECT!

Well, mechanical fun aside, I used my fir test piece to mark up the cedar. Several test cuts to DEAD NUTS center the holes in the side of my cedar stile and I had some nice holes, that my 7/8" socket fits snugly into. I will later plug the holes after installation of the gate. I plan to locktite the nuts on there but won't glue in the bungs just in case....

Chris Padilla
05-12-2008, 2:43 PM
Domino!! Finally, I get to use this sucker! Now I'm not going to use the Domino for the joints but it works good as a fast way to give me test fits so I can put the gate in its spot to gauge fit.

As it turned out, a design change later on in the day will allow me to use the Domino to secure 1 of the 3 rails.

Oh, maybe you obeserved that my rails appear less thick than the stiles? :o Well, some of that WUNNERFUL cedar I got decided to do the Chubby Checker on me and I was forced to face-plane it, re-joint the edges, and even re-rip it so overall, all the rails will be slightly smaller. Oh wait, I did this on purpose...as a design...for a shadow lines...yeah, that's it. ;)

Hey, even the Domino can be used to fix itself!! This rail was the late design change to match the fence better and it allowed me to use the 10 mm x 50 mm domino. I dunno how I messed up the mortise by the Domino but if it can be done, I'm sure to do it!! I glued in a domino, cut it flush, and redrilled the mortise...good as new! :D

So here she is, held together with Dominos, in place and fitting just like I planned...somehow...no clue how...but she fits darn good! :D

The final pic shows from whence the design change came. We want to match the privacy lattice piece on the fence and the upper rail didn't look right being the same width as the other two rails nor did the privacy lattice look right cut down smaller.

Wayne Cannon
05-13-2008, 2:27 AM
I built our entry gates from clear Western Red Cedar last year and have received many compliments on them.

Caution: Cedar is very soft. It dings and scratches if you just look at it cross-wise; e.g., mowers, suitcases, ice chests, packages, firewood -- almost anything hard that is carried through the gate -- becomes a source for damage. After a while, I guess it will take on a somewhat "distressed" appearance, but until that happens, I see every ding and scratch. My neighbor made gates from stained Ipe, which would be hard to ding. They're beautiful gates, though I feel sorry for the hinges -- having to support all that weight.

Chris Padilla
05-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Wayne,

You aren't kidding! Every little ding, bang, and bong can be clearly seen in the wood!! A sharp edge on one board will gouge its neighbor!

Oh well, it all provide character I guess and when it ages a bit, those marks will blend in better.

However, I LOVE the smell when milling. I just dumped a drum full of cedar sawdust and it smelled so nice although it was choking me. :)

Steve Leverich
05-13-2008, 12:39 PM
If you do decide to use a heavy, concrete set post, remember to drop a shovel-ful of gravel into the hole and set the post in place BEFORE you pour the concrete - otherwise, you'll make a neat concrete "cup" for your post - this will ensure speedy rotting of the post by keeping it nice and wet long after a rain... Steve

Chris Padilla
05-13-2008, 12:51 PM
Well, the joinery is all complete. I have all the mortises done and milled up the floating tenons last night.

I used a 1/2" spiral up/down cut solid carbide bit that is a favorite of mine because it always cuts so cleanly and beautifully. It was, perhaps a bit larger than I wanted but I didn't have the equivalent in a 3/8" bit. The thickness of the stiles was 1.3" and the rails came in a 1.12" so the 3/8" might've been better but some times you just make do with what you got. :) Besides, I've tossed enough money chasing solutions in this project....

The mortises are all a tad deeper than 2.5" and a width of 3.5" so my floating tenons will be cut at 5" long. I wil cut 1/32" - 1/16" shallow grooves along the faces of tenons to help allow air to escape upon insertion as well as to allow more room for glue (epoxy) to expand. They fit nicely but might be a hair too tight for the depth so I'm afraid to insert them all the way until I cut the grooves! :D

Next up is to figure out the lower tongue 'n groove panel/section. I need to size the panels and figure out what kind of tongue 'n groove and then cut it all.

After that I need to cut grooves (either vie dado blade or router bit) for the tongue 'n groove and lattice sections into the stiles and rails.

Chris Padilla
05-13-2008, 12:57 PM
If you do decide to use a heavy, concrete set post, remember to drop a shovel-ful of gravel into the hole and set the post in place BEFORE you pour the concrete - otherwise, you'll make a neat concrete "cup" for your post - this will ensure speedy rotting of the post by keeping it nice and wet long after a rain... Steve

Steve,

All the posts are bolted to Simpson post brackets that were set into concrete so they never sit in any dirt or water and therefore should last a very, very long time. :)

The post that my hinges are attached to is bolted to my house and I have that sitting just a hair above the concrete walk so it should never see any water as well. I think I'm good for the fence lasting a long, long time. We built it for the ages! :D

Chris Padilla
05-19-2008, 2:00 PM
Slowly but surely things are progressing on my gate. :)

I worked on the lower panel section. I initially picked up 5 1x6 by 12 feet (!) boards but immediately had the lumber yard chop the whole caboodle in half for me. :)

After working on the frame, I concluded that the panels should be 9/16" thick so I planed all 10 boards down. Next I jointed one edge and ripped everything to 5 1/8" wide.

Now to the tongue 'n groove part. I stared at my router bits and stared at my table saw and stared at my stock. Hmmm, 9/16" divided into 3 comes out to a nice even 3/16". It is almost like I planned that! :rolleyes:

Well, with my trusty Incra fence and a nice flat-top ripping blade, I was able to set up a nice "not-too-snug, not-too-loose" centered groove and centered tongue. I also employed my trusty Bulldog orange feather board to keep things nice an consistent throughout the 10 boards.

Next was an edge treatment. I was initially thinking to roundover all the edges but test cuts didn't get me what I thought I wanted so out came the trusty 45 degree router bit and with it barely poking out from the router table fence (also Incra! :D), I chamfered all the edge of the board and I'll be darned if they didn't come out rather nice looking!!

Next on the list is to cut the grooves in the frame to accept these T&G boards.... I know you all can barely wait for these.... ;)