Rail and Stile face frame

[alex grams]

I am making a desk that I am going to make panels on the front of. I would like to do a rail and stile pattern on the inside of the panel frame, but with using a 3/4" veneered plywood as the panel, I can't do a raised panel style.

The best option I see is a rail and stile bit where I take off the groove cutter where the 1/4" panel typically sits. However, with normal thickness frames, this gives me a fairly deep set from where the pattern ends on the corner, to where the panel would sit. (adding 1/4" from where the typical panel would sit).

Do they make bits that suit this application? All matched rail and stile I see are for panel inserts, and are fairly shallows in regards

My other option would be to just rabbet cut the back of the plywood and go ahead and use that as the panel. However, this way I have to use the frame of the panels as the strength of the corner joints, where with the other way, I could develop a strong carcass and just frame it after the carcass is developed. The carcass method being much easier to construct, and much stronger in my opinion, because I can hide screws/glue in on the corner with the latter added framing.

Thoughts? Links to bits that suit this purpose (assuming the frame is 4/4 that is planed down)?

[Cary Falk]

I am not sure I understand the problem completely , but why can't you use 1/4" veneered plywood instead of 3/4"?

[Peter Quinn]

Can you run a 1/2" rabbit on the plywood edge on the back side creating a 1/4" thick by 3/8" deep tongue on the plywood? THis would allow a 3/4" panel to fit in a typical frame and panel set up. I usually do this with 1/2" plywood though to minimize weight.

Also not sure I truly understand your question.

[alex grams]

Sorry if it is a little muddy in my explanation.

I only have 3/4" veneered walnut ply available. I would rather build a carcass that I can construct instead of building individual frames that I have to connect via the frame (instead of the carcass).

I would prefer to just find a deeper set rail and stile so I can make a frame to mount on top of the panel (instead of a groove to set the panel in). That way I can construct the desk carcass and then frame on top of it, as opposed to making panels I have to make as a panel style.

I think I am just going to have to rabbet the back of everything (at least this helps give me a valid reason to buy a dado!)

[Jim Becker]

An alternative method I have used is to make thin overlay stock to simulate the rails and stiles over a flat plywood panel. Some of the doors in my kitchen were made this way as was the entire exterior of my island. A similar technique was used on the end panels of my recent cherry vanity projects...the overlays add the shadow lines without having to do all the work of milling actual rails and stiles.

[alex grams]

Jim, i am not sure what you are suggesting: It seems one of two things to me:

-make an inside corner trim piece (with any router bit pattern i want) and miter cutting it to fit inside frames of the panels? That way I could use any pattern of router bit i want? (did you just glue these in to place?

-using thinner stock and still using a rail/stile bit set where the depth that the backcutter would normally cut out is not there from the stock being thin?

[Joe Chritz]

Either of those work but you are probably faster and better by just making panels and assembling with those. It isn't difficult and has been done forever before plywood was available.

To do that you would just rabbit the back of the plywood until there is a 1/4 tongue left. With 3/4 stock you would have extra sticking off the back.

I read your question like you want to take a plywood panel and attach rail/stile stock to make it look like a recessed panel.

You can mill stock to do that anyway you want and then attach it with glue/clamps, tape or pins. Also if you search for jack miter it will show you how to attach them without mitering or using a cope cutter.

Joe

[Peter Quinn]

Bits to make divided lite doors may fit your needs as they typically stack for different thickness material and have a stout rabbiting bit as part of the set up.


Look at Amana's catalogue, as well as CMT and Freud. Basically you would be making a window frame and treating the plywood as the glass.

[David DeCristoforo]

You really only have four "good" options. The first is to get thinner plywood, an option that you have already precluded. Second, get thicker frame stock. Third, you can rabbet the plywood as shown in "Figure 1" in the following sketch. Not bad as long as you don't mind the panel projecting past the back of the frame (dimension "A" will equal dimension "B"). Fourth and, IMMHO, the better option is to do what Jim suggested and make a "mock frame" as shown in "Figure 2". You can use part of the cope and stick cutters to make the "frame" pieces.

There is one other option which I have left out of the "good options" category, is to build the panels as per "figure 1" and they take them to a shop that has a wide belt and pay them to sand the panel backs flush. Expensive and the backs will look like doodo
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YDMD

[Jim Becker]

Jim, i am not sure what you are suggesting: It seems one of two things to me:

-make an inside corner trim piece (with any router bit pattern i want) and miter cutting it to fit inside frames of the panels? That way I could use any pattern of router bit i want? (did you just glue these in to place?

-using thinner stock and still using a rail/stile bit set where the depth that the backcutter would normally cut out is not there from the stock being thin?

Start with a flat piece of 3/4" veneer plywood. Mill up some thinner stock, typically 3/8" to 1/2" thick to use as your faux rails and stiles. If you pick a profile that you can make a matching cope, the fitting will be easier. (I most often do a simple 15º Shaker style bevel edge) If not, you'll need to do a little hand-work to miter the profile to fit the corners. With careful setup, you could use an existing rail/stile cutter setup...you just want the portion of the profile that goes outside of the panel on a normal cope and stick panel. This material is used to create the faux rails and stiles that are applied to the plywood panel. It's mostly a matter of careful fitting.

Relative to wood movement, I'll typically glue near the panel and just use some 23 gage pins closer to the edges shot in at a slight angle. They disappear during the finishing process in most cases.