Lee Valley LAS or BUS

[Yolanda Kirkland]

Hi, this is my first posting to SMC. I have been visiting this site for a couple of months now and I have really learned a lot. I am getting started in woodworking and have taken a couple of classes at Woodcraft; which I have enjoyed quite a bit. Actually the box class I took at Woodcraft got me hooked on this woodworking hobby. I have went on a tool buying binge. I so far have the Ridgid 2400 tablesaw and the ridgid jointer and planer. All were bought on sale. :D But my problem is that I want the power tools for the speed but I would also like to build some projects using mostly handtools. Hopefully getting rid of the power tools maybe all together. I don't know about getting rid of the Tablesaw though.

After taking a handplane class at Woodcraft, I purchased the LN adjustable mouth block plane, which I love. But, I think I may have made a mistake this weekend at the Houston Woodworking show. I ordered a Veritas LA Jack plane and a Veritas LA Smooth Plane. After reading the threads here, I think maybe I should have gotten the Bevel up Smoother plane instead of the LA Smooth plane. I want something that can get a great final finish, so I won't have to do to much sanding. Should I have gotten the BUS or did I do the right thing with the LAS and the Jack Plane?

I will be making mostly boxes and small pieces of furniture, i.e., end tables, small coffee tables, bookcases, once I get good enough.

Lastly, I was thinking that a good start on handplanes would be the following:

LV LA Jack Plane
LAS or BUS plane
shoulder plane
adjustable mouth block plane

Am I on the right track? Can I do the projects I want with just this four planes? Remember the I'm deciding between the LAS and the BUS from Lee Valley.

I know my first posting was long, but I really need to know I did the right thing in getting what I did. My husband swears up and down I can't make a decision, maybe he's right. It's only been one day and I'm second guessing my purchase.:o

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Yolande

Rest assured - the LAS can perform as well as the BUS. They just go about this slightly differently. The LAS is lighter and requires more down force than the heavier BUS.

I like the LAS very much for the extra "feel" (feedback) it imparts over the BUS. The BUS is one of those planes that just does the job and does it superbly, but the heft of the plane can disguise the feel of the surface, and there might be less satisfaction as a result. You work a little harder physically with the LAS to get this result, but you do so with more involvement.

The BUS is a dedicated smoother. I only use a 50 degree bevel (62 degree angle of attack) in mine. The LAS is used with a low angle blade in addition since it is handy as well as a large block plane and on the shooting board.

I have this plus a bit more in my reviews of these planes on my website.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Johnny Kleso]

Welcome,
I am new also..

I think you will be fine in your choice......
Just starting out I think it maybe a few month before you even notice any difference in the cuts and you can always b another blade and grind it at the angle of a BU or even higer which is called a York Pitch as English planes come at a 50º angle instead of 45º

Also Derek Knows his LV tools so he is also correct...

[Michael Faurot]

But my problem is that I want the power tools for the speed but I would also like to build some projects using mostly handtools.


It's up to you, if you want to do things exclusively with hand tools or exclusively with power tools. In my opinion, there's no reason not to use both. One philosophy to use, if you really need to have a way to justify keeping your power tools, is to think of them as apprentices. In the past, a cabinet maker might have several apprentices that did the grunt work so he could concentrate on the fine details. So instead of having people as apprentices, you've got a table saw, jointer, etc.

For some of the stuff I do, having a bandsaw is indispensable. Using hand planes, after cutting stock on the bandsaw, to take off the rough edges is a great example of the two philosophies working together.



But, I think I may have made a mistake this weekend at the Houston Woodworking show. I ordered a Veritas LA Jack plane and a Veritas LA Smooth Plane. After reading the threads here, I think maybe I should have gotten the Bevel up Smoother plane instead of the LA Smooth plane.
I currently own the LV Low Angle Jack (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515). I don't own one of their smoothers yet, but when I do order one, I intend to get the Bevel-Up Smoother (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51870&cat=1,41182,52515). By getting the BU Smoother, instead of the LA Smoother, I'll be able to swap the 2-1/4" blades around between them. Whereas with the Low-Angle Smooth Plane (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45864&cat=1,41182,41187&ap=1), I wouldn't be able to swap blades between it and my Jack, because they use different sized blades.

Now for a minor rant. I love Lee Valley, but I find the way they've named their family of bevel-up planes (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52515&cat=1,41182) that all use 2-1/4" blades confusing. The Jointer makes sense as Veritas Bevel-Up Jointer Plane as does the Smoother as Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother Plane, but then they name the Jack, Veritas Low-Angle Jack Plane. Why not keep it simple and name it Veritas Bevel-Up Jack so one could just look at the names, and know they're all part of the same group that use the same sized blades?

At any rate, it seems the main advantage of the Low-Angle Smooth Plane, vs. the Bevel-Up Smooth Plane is if you don't all ready own any of the other 2-1/4" sized planes and/or you need for the blade to have a bit less cutting width, which should make it slightly easier to push. With just a Low-Angle Smoother, you could use it with a shooting board, whereas you wouldn't be able to use the Bevel-Up Smoother with a shooting board. But since you do own the Jack, you can use it with a shooting board instead.



Lastly, I was thinking that a good start on handplanes would be the following:

LV LA Jack Plane
LAS or BUS plane
shoulder plane
adjustable mouth block plane
That looks pretty fine to me. But I'd suggest keeping your Jack and Smoother in the same 2-1/4" blade family, and then you'll be able to swap the different angled blades around between them. Later on, if you decide you need a Jointer, you'll be able swap the blades around with it as well.

[JayStPeter]

I actually sold my Low Angle smoother and got a BUS. Nothing wrong with the LA Smoother, I just wanted blades to match the other BU planes. I got the Bevel Up Jointer with a 25* blade. The BUS comes with a 38* blade, so I have one of each. When I get the LA Jack, it comes with another 25* blade which I'll sharpen with a bit more camber for rougher work. If I kept the LA Smoother, with 2 blades, I would most likely still have gotten 3 blades for the BU Jointer and LA Jack. So, it would be 5 blades to keep sharp instead of 3.
It was tough to sell the LA Smoother as it felt pretty sweet in the limited use I gave it. Although far less skilled than Derek, I agree with his comparisons between the two. I am starting to realize there is something to be said for a blade that isn't as wide sometimes.

[Yolanda Kirkland]

Thanks for advice. I have decided that I will go ahead and keep the low angle smoother. I may eventually end up getting the BUS. I hear that Lee Valley has a good return policy. I will try out the LAS and if I can't get the desired results, I will return it and get the BUS. I did like the weight of the LAS plane. Again thanks for all the comments.

[Ken Werner]

I, for one, am glad Jay sold his LA smoother. I bought it. And he tells the truth. It is a sweet plane.

And Yolanda, welcome to the Creek.

[Will Blick]

I really like both LV and LN planes. Two great companies, we are lucky they both exist in our field. Considering the quality of their planes, I think they are both reasonably priced...of course, you can buy less expensive planes, but all things considered they have done a great job keeping the planes priced in the reasonable price range. As a reference, really high-end planes can often sell in the thousands of dollars per plane.

However, many of us need to stretch our tool dollars as far as possible. And IMO, as mentioned above, LV really hit the nail on the head (excuse the pun) with their BU line of planes. The ability to swap blades, and have 3 different plane types with 3 blade angle options is quite impressive when it comes to stretching your tool dollars. Its like having 9 planes for the price of 3. Kudos to LV on their innovative thinking, even on a product line that is hundreds of years old!

IMO, LV doesn't do a good enough job advertising the value of the interchangeability. As mentioned above, part of the reason is, they naming of the planes is just plane confusing!!!