Making Your Own Veneers

[Jeff Wright]

With the cost of hardwoods being what they are, I was wondering if many of you make your own veneers by bandsawing your solid stock. If so, to what thickness do you cut the veneers? Any good tips for making your own veneers? Or do you skip the resawing and simply buy ready made veneers?

[Thomas Knapp]

I'm just starting to explore that path myself. A couple of good sources of veneer are B&B Rare Woods http://www.wood-veneers.com/index1.htm and Certainly Wood http://www.certainlywood.com/. It is hard to cut your own as thin as they do. That just makes it hard to mix both kinds. A thickness sander also helps making yoiur own. If you make your own just make than less than 1/8" thick and they should work well. The veneers from the past were thicker than todays and worked well. I'm not sure you will save that much money by using veneer. Fancy veneer can cost a good bit per square foot, but you can do things that are hard to do with solid wood. Things like book and radial matches, marquetry, using burl which may not have had enough strength as solid wood. MDF seems to be the choice now for core material. Those that have more knowledge than I do, like it for its consistency and stability. Paul Schurch has a coupe of good DVD's available. Explore his website he does some nice work. http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/index.html This picture is my first attempt at Marquetry.

[Toney Robertson]

Thomas,

That is one nice bird. Great work.

How long did that take?

Any insight on technique?

Toney

[Jeff Wright]

This picture is my first attempt at Marquetry.

Nice work!

Regarding veneer thicknesses, I thought if I were to resaw to thicknesses of 3/16 or so, then I could dress it up once glued to the substrate on my 16-inch planer and jointer. Am I being naive to think that is possible?

[Peter Quinn]

I haven't tackled any major veneer projects but have been praticing setting up my bandsaw and cutting samples from test pieces. Its my understanding the 3/16" is about the upper limit in thickness which allows wood to behave like a veneer (limited movement) and not like solid wood. I cannot cut veneer as thin as comercially made stuff nor do I want to, but with my 14" band saw and drum sander I can consistently achieve 3/64"-1/16", sometimes thinner.

I watched more experienced guys at work apply veneer to curved substrates made up of italian bending plywood layers, poplar I think. They applied shop made mahogany veneers @ 3/32", just thin enough to not spring back and be able to form the required radius. They used traditional cauls and clamps (lots and lots of clamps).

Remember to apply veneer to both sides of a substrate to keep tension in equilibrium.

[matthew Roberts]

I made some veneers from spalted maple for a table I am working on. I just set up a shop made fence to accommodate the the drift in the blade. I cut them oversize and then used the surface planer to get them all to thickness.

[Jay Jolliffe]

What glue would you use for shop made veneer? I used tight bond with bad result.The thinnest that I've made so far has been .040" using a drum sander after I resawed it.

[Joe Chritz]

I am just getting started with shop sawn veneers but I am shooting to cut at 1/8" then dress to a bit less.

Even a moderately tuned BS can turn out veneer like that pretty easy.

This is strictly an educated guess on my part but once the wood gets over 1/32 I doubt there is any benefit to thicker veneers except maybe ease of handling.

Joe

[David DeCristoforo]

"I thought if I were to resaw to thicknesses of 3/16 or so, then I could dress it up once glued to the substrate on my 16-inch planer and jointer. Am I being naive to think that is possible?"

Absolutely not. As long as your BS is able to cut clean, flat sheets, this is completely within the realm of possibility. In doing this, you open up a whole world of grain and figure matching potential. "Sawn" veneers are much better than the thin stuff that comes in "sheets" or "leaves". It looks, works, feels and finishes much more like solid wood. Just remember to obey (you must obey!) the "rules" that apply to all veneer work, the most important of which is to keep your panels in balance. What is done to one side must be done on the other.

Have fun?
Dakuni Yosoforomoro

[Will Blick]

The rule of thumb, keep final veneer thickness 1/16" or thinner, otherwise, the veneer will act like wood and possibly separate from the substrate.

I too am considering doing more of my own veneering. But only for special projects where I want a certain look. In some cases, I prefer the consistency in appearance of a rotary cut veneer.... Other figured woods lend themselves to more attractive appearance when book-matched, something not possible by rotary cut veneers. So IMO, its important to pay attention to the look you want first, then consider how to get to the end result.

[John Timberlake]

I have cut my own veneers for a number of projects. The biggest was a dining table for my daughter. Cut piece that were about 8"x 20" from a 2" think piece of figured walnut using my Jet 14" bandsaw with riser block. I cut them to about 3/16" and then cleaned them up after gluing. Now I a Performax 16" drum sand, so I usually get the veneer down to about 1/16" or so before using. Also do the same for smaller pieces that I use for marquetry. Just make sure the bandsaw has a sharp blade (I use 1/2" x 4TPI) and is set up well with a good fence.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...keep final veneer thickness 1/16"..."

"... I usually get the veneer down to about 1/16" or so..."

Well, I think a sixteenth is stepping on it a bit hard. Krenov and his army of acolytes, consistently use sawn veneers of 1/8 to 3/16 in thickness without issue. I do think that 3/16 is pretty much the max thickness you would want to use. I have made a million chessboards and, for a while I was using a laminated construction with 1/4" thick squares. These did, indeed, cause problems with wood movement. But as long as I stayed between 1/8 and 3/16" in thickness, everything stayed put.

DeMatasoro Yovid

[jim oakes]

With the cost of hardwoods being what they are, I was wondering if many of you make your own veneers by bandsawing your solid stock. If so, to what thickness do you cut the veneers? Any good tips for making your own veneers? Or do you skip the resawing and simply buy ready made veneers?

I've been thinking about this: When it comes to cost it's way cheaper to buy bookmatched plywood. I just priced bookmatched Walnut 3/4" plywood and it's cheaper than solid 4/4 Walnut. Then figure the cost of the substrate,good bandsaw blades and sandpaper and even if your labor is free sawn veneers will be way more expensive.

With bookmatched plywood you can see the grain, if the figure is not right don't buy that sheet. The downside now days is the veneers are getting so thin you can see the glue through the veneer on some species (oak is the worst).

With shop sawn you don't really see the results until you've done lots of work. You will want allow a bit of waste or a "defect" factor.
I would increase that defect factor if your counting on running 3/16 or thinner through a planer.

My reason to get into sawn veneer more? IT'S FUN! It's really satisfying to slice wood open and see the bookmatch. I do have some nice planks I got at a bargain price, so that helps justify spending about $3,000 on a bandsaw and blades, plus maybe a sander, cyclone, veneer press, bigger shop and (whew) I better check the 220 volt capacity of my shop. This could be expensive fun!

[Peter Quinn]

A few things:

I remember seeing DJ Marks using a glue sizing on commercial veneer to stabilize and flatten it on Woodworks. He basically moistened one side with watered down yellow glue (it was walnut thin like paper) then pressed it between sheets of MDF with weight on top for a few days to get it flat in preparation for use. I may be missing a few details here as I lost the episode and my memory isn't what it used to be.

I've been browsing an old Tage Frid article in FWW where he was gluing thick sawn veneers (3/16") to a solid wood substrate for a table top then carving the edges and radiusing them for a cool effect. Seems they used wood substrates before plywood to good effect. The process was way more technical than I can recount here, but might be worth a search for some.

I'm told the balancing veneer on the blind side of a piece is not usually made using the same figured material as the show piece and often not even the same species. I think using the same thickness and relative density is the critical factor there.

[Peter Quinn]

Also Berkshire Veneers (who happens to be drivable from my location) carries figured woods in sequenced flitches that are plain sawn and can be book matched as neccessary. I'm sure other regional speciality veneer companies offer similar products if shop sawn is not an option.

[William OConnell]

Nice work!

Regarding veneer thicknesses, I thought if I were to resaw to thicknesses of 3/16 or so, then I could dress it up once glued to the substrate on my 16-inch planer and jointer. Am I being naive to think that is possible?

I do exactly what you stated on a regular besis. just remember to have good blades on your planer. I am not a fan of bought veneer even though there are some nice exotics out there. I just finished 16 interior doors and they came out real nice using the method you just described

[Brad Shipton]

I have done a bit of re-sawing for stave core doors. I read one article where the fellow managed to get 4 - 3/16 from 4/4 stock, but the best I have managed is three. I have an 18" GI BS with the standard ball bearing rollers and have been thinking of going to Carter guides to get a better yield. Has anyone tried these? You may think it is fussy, but I have found my current methods leads to a little more jointer clean up between slices than I like.

Anyone looking for commercial veneers may want to give Certainly Wood a try. Very good to deal with and prompt cheap delivery. One tip, they really do not monitor their email much so you best give em a call. They have domestics in thicker matched quantities up to 1/8" thick.

Brad

[Bill Wyko]

Myself, I use both. If I make my own I usually make it around 1/16th thick. This way I can get 6 slices out of 4/4 material then book match it into 3 sheets of veneer. I also buy highly figured veneers because making burls into veneer can be more difficult. Also finding burl that you can do this with is not easy in these parts. When buying unbacked burl veneer you'll find it to be bumpy and difficult to work with. This is where you'd use a veneer softener. You spray it on both sides then place some unprinted newspaper on both sides then place that between 2 cauls. You can flatten it using clamps but you'll have much better results using a vacuum press. Both ways can give you beautiful wood to work with but to make your own and do a good job, you need quite a few expensive tools. IE a Drum sander, vacuum press, a band saw, lots of clamps and lots of patience. The easiest way is paper backed veneers. They are very smooth and can be applied with a variety of adhiesives. I'd say try everything at least once. Good luck.:D

[Jay Jolliffe]

What glue would you use for shop made veneer's ?

[Jeff Wright]

A few things:

I remember seeing DJ Marks using a glue sizing on commercial veneer to stabilize and flatten it on Woodworks. He basically moistened one side with watered down yellow glue (it was walnut thin like paper) then pressed it between sheets of MDF with weight on top for a few days to get it flat in preparation for use. I may be missing a few details here as I lost the episode and my memory isn't what it used to be.

I've been browsing an old Tage Frid article in FWW where he was gluing thick sawn veneers (3/16") to a solid wood substrate for a table top then carving the edges and radiusing them for a cool effect. Seems they used wood substrates before plywood to good effect. The process was way more technical than I can recount here, but might be worth a search for some.

I'm told the balancing veneer on the blind side of a piece is not usually made using the same figured material as the show piece and often not even the same species. I think using the same thickness and relative density is the critical factor there.

I just watched a DVD by Darryl Keil called Working With Vineer and he teached how to flatten curled veneer using a homemade brew of yellow glue, glycerin and a couple other ingredients (I forget at the moment). He brushes the brew on both sides of the veneer and then puts plastic window screening against both sides of the veneer and then puts multiple layers of newspaper against each of the screens, then puts flat panel cauls on each side and clamps the whole thing tight. He lets that sit for a few hours and then replaces the wet newspapers with fresh ones and clamps it again for a couple hours. He does this process maybe six times over a two day period to make sure the veneer is completely dry. I recommend the DVD; I bought mine a Woodcrafters last week.

I plan to buy a Lennox carbide blade, maybe a 3/4-inch or 2-inch, to attempt good resaws using my MiniMax 20-inch bandsaw. Blades aren't cheap!!

[Peter Quinn]

Come to think of it Jeff that sounds more like what I saw DJ Marks do than my crude description. Seems like Bill's explanation above was similar. Thanks for the tip on the vid.

I made some veneer samples using 9" wide rift sawn oak for test pieces on a job that wound up going paint grade (thank god). It had to bend around a subtle radius over 10' for 15" wide window extension jambs. I edge glued two pieces at just under 1/8" thickness and got a good glue joint to make up 18" wide pieces.

When I got down to just over 1/16" on the DS the oak started getting real fragile and crumbly every where. I tried misting it with water and things got worse. Wondering if the veneer stabilizer would work for a project like that or if I was doing something wrong to begin with?

[Sam Yerardi]

When I make my own veneer, I resaw to 1/8" thick. I've seen in a lot of old dimensioned drawings of period furniture (Gottshall, Margon, Taylor, etc.) more often than not 1/8" veneer dimensions keep showing up. Sometimes they are used with crossbanding underlayment. I saw some veneer that Harold Isonson did for a series of Federal tables he built once and used 1/8" Santo Domingo mahogany for the top veneer surface and an underlayment of Honduras mahogany for the crossbanding.

[Jesse Cloud]

I resaw to between 3/32 and 3/16. This gives plenty of room for subsequent sanding and edge joining. After glueup, I run the piece through a drum sander, then take off the drum sander marks with an ROS.

If you are doing this, a couple of helpful things to remember, veneer both faces of your piece with the same species/thickness and if you are using a substrate with grain (e.g., plywood) try to run the veneer grain at 90 degrees to the substrate grain.

[Jeff Wright]

When I make my own veneer, I resaw to 1/8" thick. I've seen in a lot of old dimensioned drawings of period furniture (Gottshall, Margon, Taylor, etc.) more often than not 1/8" veneer dimensions keep showing up. Sometimes they are used with crossbanding underlayment. I saw some veneer that Harold Isonson did for a series of Federal tables he built once and used 1/8" Santo Domingo mahogany for the top veneer surface and an underlayment of Honduras mahogany for the crossbanding.

Sam, can you please explain what crossbanding is?

[David DeCristoforo]

"...can you please explain what crossbanding is?"

It's a layer of veneer between the face and the core, the grain of which runs across the grain of the face and the outer layer of the core (assuming that the core is a laminated core). If the core is a "solid" (also called a "lumber core") then the grain direction of the core and the face should run in the same direction with the "crossband" grain at 90 degrees.

DM

PS If the core is (yecch) MDF, then there is, obviously, no grain direction. Most veneers are laid up on MDF without a crossband but using one (if you are laying up your own panels) will add some stability to your finished panel.

[Doug Shepard]

...resaw to thicknesses of 3/16 or so, then I could dress it up once glued to the substrate ...

I'm not sure how much extra you were allowing for to dress it up but a carbide blade on your BS wont need much cleanup at all. If you were aiming for a final 1/8", I think the 3/16" is overkill. My best guess is a 1/32 oversize is probably plenty. If you have a power feeder or rejoint the face between cuts, you can probably get away with much less. I needed some thin shims in the 1/16" neighborhood this afternoon and resawed some 4" purpleheart that were cleaned up with just some 60g paper on a large sanding block in about 10 minutes (MM16 & TriMaster). The only saw marks I ever see is where I pause the feed to reposition my hands.

[Jeff Wright]

I'm not sure how much extra you were allowing for to dress it up but a carbide blade on your BS wont need much cleanup at all. If you were aiming for a final 1/8", I think the 3/16" is overkill. My best guess is a 1/32 oversize is probably plenty. If you have a power feeder or rejoint the face between cuts, you can probably get away with much less. I needed some thin shims in the 1/16" neighborhood this afternoon and resawed some 4" purpleheart that were cleaned up with just some 60g paper on a large sanding block in about 10 minutes (MM16 & TriMaster). The only saw marks I ever see is where I pause the feed to reposition my hands.

Doug, that's encoraging. I better get that blade ordered!

[Christof Grohs]

What glue would you use for shop made veneer's ?

Unibond 800 (http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm)

[Bill Wyko]

I just made a thread discussing my encounters with a burl veneer. You guys should take a look. I ruined a small but beautiful piece of burl going to the school of hard knocks again:(