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Gary and Jessica Houghton
04-05-2008, 11:29 AM
I have a customer that wants something engraved on pressure treated wood. Can this be done? I ask because of the toxic nature of the treated wood. I would hate to fry my laser with only $10 profit.
Thanks!

James Stokes
04-05-2008, 12:43 PM
Yes it can be done. I think people get to concerned about damaging their lasers. I do not think there is any thing out there that will instantly fry a laser. I have been playing with lasers since 2000 and there are not many things I have not tried to laser.

Steven Smith
04-05-2008, 12:47 PM
I have a customer that wants something engraved on pressure treated wood. Can this be done? I ask because of the toxic nature of the treated wood. I would hate to fry my laser with only $10 profit.
Thanks!

I wouldn't touch it for ten times that price. I'm more worried about the toxicity than damage to my laser.

Rodne Gold
04-05-2008, 1:00 PM
Pressure-treated wood should not be burned under any circumstances.
Other products that are on the do-not-burn list are plywood, particleboard, chipboard and painted or finished wood. To be fair, there was one government study that did not find any more toxicity in the smoke from pressure-treated wood than from regular wood. The ash, though, was definitely more toxic, because the arsenic does not burn off. So you wouldn't want to add this ash to soil or your compost heap. All of us who have heated their homes with wood know how the ash is everywhere and on everything!

from
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infpre.html

Up to you...for $10 I'd tell him no.

Gary and Jessica Houghton
04-05-2008, 1:08 PM
Thanks so much for all of your imput. I will try and persuade my customer to use something else.

Kim Vellore
04-05-2008, 1:11 PM
I was initially thinking we burn all kinds of things that give out toxic fumes and this should not be too bad but further reading into it, it is too hazardous to burn these wood. Releasing even small amounts of Arscenic in the air around people is bad. Burning this wood gives out arscenic.

Here is some basic info on these woods

http://www.poison.org/current/CCA.htm
http://www.origen.net/ccawood.html

Here is a quote from the link above

"Burning:Incineration of CCA wood does not destroy arsenic. It is incredible, but a single 12 foot 2 x 6 contains about 27 grams of Arsenic - enough arsenic to kill 250 adults. Burning CCA wood releases the chemical bond holding Arsenic in the wood, and just one Tablespoon of ash from a CCA wood fire contains a lethal dose of Arsenic. Worse yet, Arsenic gives no warning: it does not have a specific taste or odor to warn you of its presence. No one disputes that the ash from burning CCA wood is highly toxic: It is illegal to burn CCA wood in all 50 states. This has serious implications for firefighters, cleanup and landfill operations. Even more astonishing, minute amounts of 'fly ash' from burning CCA pressure treated wood, can have serious health consequences. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported on a family that burned CCA in a wood stove for winter heating. Their hair fell out, all family members suffered severe, recurring nosebleeds, extreme fatigue and debilitating headaches. The parents complained about 'blacking out' for periods of several hours, followed by long periods of extreme disorientation. Both children suffered frequent seizures described as 'grand mal'. The symptoms were finally traced to breathing minute amounts of arsenic laden dust leaking from the furnace as fly ash. The family's houseplants and fish died, too, victims of copper poisoning from the same dust. Peters HA, et al: Seasonal exposure to arsenic from burning CCA wood. JAMA 251:(18)2393-96, 1984)"

Take a few minutes and do your research and make your decision.

Kim

Jack Harper
04-05-2008, 2:41 PM
Kim,

To read this, am I to understand you can burn pressure treated wood so long as CCA was not used in it. In other words if it was made recently, it should be clean of CCA?

Joe Chritz
04-05-2008, 2:52 PM
New PT wood is not CCA treated and contains no arsenic. I think some posts 4x6 and bigger may still use CCA but not sure.

I would try to move them toward another outdoor wood that is just wood and has no treatment.

The choices are fairly extensive. White oak, purpleheart, IPE, cedar, redwood are some of the more popular choices.

Joe

Daniel Cline
04-05-2008, 3:01 PM
Additionally....

Pressure treated materials.

“Two wood preservatives are now being marketed as substitutes for Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA) pressure treated lumber. These include Ammoniacal Copper Quat Type B (ACQ-B) and Copper Azole Type A (CBA-A).”

In addition, untreated wood (cedar and redwood) and non-wood alternatives, such as plastics, metal, and composite materials are available.

M Toupin
04-05-2008, 3:22 PM
ACC (Chromated Copper Arsenate) is still available for limited purposes, but nowadays, the typical "pressure treated" lumber is ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quaternary). The switch to ACQ occurred about 2004, I doubt you'll still find ACC in stock in any typical lumber yard.

Still not good to burn it, but I would think it would be no worse than most plastics to burn...

Mike

Bill Morrison
04-05-2008, 3:56 PM
Rodne mentioned the list of items not to burn and I've seem a lot of SWM people showimg things they made with melamine. I ran a machine that embedded the melamine into the MDF core and we were told not to take any scraps home and burn them but it was because of the glue that was used to make the MDF, it could be toxic. I can only think that there's a big difference between an open flame and the fumes created in a room VS a laser that is vented.

Bill

Rodne Gold
04-06-2008, 8:00 AM
I think that list is pretty much tree hugger/epa activist territory , I doubt a laser would contribute to global pollution or even be a danger in terms of fumes .......however the ARSENIC laced residue of the pressure treated wood woulda concerned me. I think that could most certainly be a danger I wouldnt want to risk at all for $10.

Pete Simmons
04-06-2008, 8:22 AM
Pressure treated wood - Not sure my take on that but I would not be overly worried about a few fumes. I know people who have worked with it (cutting, handling, some burning) for over 20 years with no noticeable effects yet. How many of us have walked on decks made of it then into the house to spread small amounts of the chemicals all over the house. Even onto the rugs and floors where children play.

Our world is full of fumes! Cannot think off hand which one might be good for you.

We breath them all the time. Now I am not saying that we should not try to minimize our exposure to them but we sure are funny creatures.

We spray fumes all over the world from cars and trucks - are any of these good for us?? I do not think so.

We ( Some of us ) Pay for and make fumes on purpose (SMOKE) full of nasty things and then we breath them in for enjoyment!!! I always get a kick out of a Smoker complaining of some pollutant in the air or water.

Home air freshners (That was hard to type) Who are we kidding? Lets see,,lets disperse into the air tiny droplets of some scented oils so we can breath them in. For FRESHNESS???? I do not think so.

So I am a full nut case and only breath Oxygen from a pure bottle? No.

But we sure do some odd things on purpose and then worry or condemn something that does 1/1,000,000 of the damage of things that we do on purpose or for enjoyment.

So breath a few fumes. There are only a few that will kill you with one breath. The rest are just mixed in with all the other stuff we breath and who knows the long term effects of these.

Dee Gallo
04-06-2008, 10:40 AM
Hey Pete-

Add to that the brilliant idea someone had a few years back where we had an explosion of "kid designed playgrounds" built with pressure treated wood by local volunteers from professional plans the villages paid big bucks for... And now they are being torn down or left empty to not rot. Seems they found out 1) the kids didn't really like to play on them, 2) the pressure treated wood wasn't very kid friendly and 3) it looks like hell after a few years of weathering and warping. Bring back the old monkey bars and swings!

Thad Nickoley
04-06-2008, 1:49 PM
amen Pete and Dee,

How many of these people eat organic foods. Most people have no idea what is in their food. Any one out there ever work in the food industry??? If so you probably dont eat out at fast food places as much as you used to.