Patio Steps

[Eric Franklin]

I have a cement slab as my patio that is cracked really bad. I going to remove it this spring and want to put brick pavers down. The issue I have is there are 2 steps down to the patio that are also cement. I was planning on remove those too.

How would you create new steps using brick pavers?

[David G Baker]

Cover the steps with brick, it looks neat.

[Joe Chritz]

David is correct. That is the best way and way back when I made a living doing landscape we did a lot of patios. Steps were mortared in place or if they were big enough just set in.

You have to have some support and I can think of a few ways to do it with concrete underneath there isn't an easy way that is cheaper or faster than concrete.

Joe

[Eric Franklin]

Cover the steps with brick, it looks neat.

How do you handle the height increase of the steps?

I'm thinking to make my life easier is to remove the existing cement steps and put in wood steps using nicer wood like cedar or use composite decking.

How do you think that would like?

[David G Baker]

Eric,
Height increase can be a problem if the brick raises the steps up into the patio access doorway. Removing the old steps and making new steps out of concrete that will accommodate the height increase caused by the bricks is an option. Cedar or composite decking is also an attractive option and is probably the way I would do it because I am not experienced with do it myself concrete work.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The wood would look nice for awhile but in the long term they would have to be replaced. I'd consider removing and repouring the steps to accomodate a full brick.

[Joe Chritz]

Often the rise is not a full 8" so you can add a thinner brick that matches the others and still be OK. If the rise is already as high as you want then you are stuck with removing and replacing.

If I was doing a deck again I would look seriously at IPE. I have plain PT wood and will switch the front porch someday.

You can also look to complimentary stones, like flag stone or a manufactured alternative.

Joe

[Jim Mattheiss]

I spent a good bit of Summer 06 building a retaining wall, stairs and a paver walk between my driveway and front stoop.

You can use wall systems like Anchor or CST to make stairs. I needed an 8" rise so life was a little more difficult but do-able. I used CST the 6x16 wall stones for the wall and 4x12 wall stones for the risers. You glue the 4x12 wall caps on as stair treads. If you can live with 6" rise building th stairs is simpler.

The deal breaker was the 90+# weight of the wall stones - my back has never been the same. I lost count of the stones used in the wall 5 or 6 pallets in.

The trick is to build the stairs first and then work the patio to the proper height of the last step.


Good luck

Jim

[Brian Effinger]

How do you handle the height increase of the steps?

I'm thinking to make my life easier is to remove the existing cement steps and put in wood steps using nicer wood like cedar or use composite decking.

How do you think that would like?

I made a small 4' x 4' deck and 3 stairs with composite decking, railing & aluminum spindles and it looks great with my paver patio. I also made a skirt around it out of composite. After 3 years I'm still very happy with it.

If you want to keep with pavers, check out manufacturer's websites (such as Unilock) or go to one of their retail facilities where you can see some examples and talk to them about how to construct it. Building paver steps might be a lot of manual labor, but it is not really all that difficult and you'll love the result.

Remember though, if this is your main exit door (usually your front door) & you have more than 1 step out of the door & down to grade, you need a landing, by code. If it is a back door, then 2 rises are OK with no landing. Also, you need a handrail on on side if your stairs have two or more rises. This isn't meant to scare you, just inform you of what the building code states. If you pull a permit for this project, then this stuff comes into play. If you don't...well...you can probably get away without keeping it in code, but you should be aware of what the code is (and you didn't hear it from me ;) ).

[Curt Fuller]

Eric, this isn't any help on building the steps, but a comment about replacing concrete with pavers. There's a reason the concrete patio is broken up and it's probably due to a combination of poor prep before the concrete was placed and the climate of Grand Rapids. So keep in mind that when you replace the concrete you'll need to do some prep work before putting down the pavers or you'll have the same problem. The freezing temperatures that heaved the concrete in the winter and the subsequent thawing that let it settle in the spring will also cause the paver surface to be uneven. A foot or more of good granular material (gravel) under the patio, something that will drain and not expand when it freezes along with some coarse sand for leveling will make for a much nicer patio. If you just lay the pavers over the existing soil you'll have the same problems as the concrete.

BTW, I'm not sure what's available in your area but they make blocks that match the pavers for steps.

[Eric Franklin]

Thank you all for the help.

I'm going to just do wood stair mainly because of cost.

Curt, everything I have read so far say you need 4-6" of a graded base.

I was planning on doing 4" of a graded base compacted done 2" at a time with a plate compactor. Put a layer of landscape fabric down and then 1" of sand.

Does this sub-base seem correct.

I think one of the reasons my patio cracked so bad is that there is not any expansion joints. I think you would need expansion joints when you have a 12x20 patio.