Start from scratch: What mortise / joining method would you go with

[Rob Will]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Rob

[Wilbur Pan]

You're missing two useful options.

1. Mortise chisel and mallet.
2. Drill press and chisels to pare the sides.

[Rob Will]

Go back to your cave Wilbur;).

Rob

[Carl Fox]

You forgot a simple butt joint.:D

[Bill Wyko]

I just can't figure any way to do a M&T faster and more accurately Than the Domino. It goes to the wood and does it in seconds. I did 8 M&Ts in 5 minutes including clamping and removing 4 pieces on 45 degree corners earlier tonight. It's cheaper than the multi router and I don't take the wood to it. Some will say you can't do a large M&T but It can do multiple which creates more surface area. Part of being good at what you do is knowing the right tool for the job, the Domino, for me, is the right tool.:)

[Jacob Reverb]

If the question is through mortises....

What about a drill press, Forstner bit and chisel?

Or a brace and bit and chisel?

Those are my votes 1 and 2.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
(currently)
1. - Kreg
2. - Biscuit
3. - Other

"Other" is a work in progress.

[Al Navas]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Rob

You might have overlooked Leigh's FMT in the choices.

The reason I selected this one: Integral tenons, extreme accuracy for single and multiple joints, simple and compound angles...


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[Don Dorn]

If I could justify a Domino, I think that would be the best combination of accuracty and speed, but barring that, I bought a Mortise Jig and it's also very fast and very accurate. The other thing I like is the ease of using either loose or fixed tennons, and doing offsets is a breeze.

[Sam Yerardi]

I'm with Wilbur on this one. I guess I'm a caveman too ;)

[Rob Will]

I'm with Wilbur on this one. I guess I'm a caveman too ;)

Working in a cave would be ok ----- so long as it has 3-phase power;).

Actually, I ran out of choices (maximum 10).
Maybe one of the choices should have been Neander methods?
Al, I'm not familiar with that Leigh jig (?).

Thanks,
Rob

[Rob Will]

I am a bit surprised that a horizontal slot mortiser is not chosen more often. I wonder if Domino is getting some of those votes?

Rob

[Art Mulder]

Picking 4 was actually easy: pocket hole, biscuits, dowelmax, plunge-router jig.
Those are the four I know best.

I've never used a domino. or a hollow-chisel mortiser, or a horizontal boring machine, or any of the other choices. (I have chopped them by hand, and I have bored out mortises with a drillpress and then chiseled them smooth. Those are not my favourite methods!)

[Kirk Poore]

I only picked two, because, as others have observed, hand-chopped mortises and drill-and-pare were not included. But my 1928 Greenlee 227 autofeed mortiser is still the best.:)

Kirk

[J. Z. Guest]

Fun thread. Conspicuously missing was manual mortise & tenon joints, either by hand-chopping or drilling, paring, and dado or tenon jig.

I chose dowel, biscuit, pocket screw, and other. I figure I'd do 90% of my work with the first three, and whatever I can't do with that, I'd do through manual means. (drill press & paring for the mortise and dado or router/straight bit for the tenon) That or skip the manual means and use another joinery method, such as dovetails, lap joints, etc.

[Greg Cole]

Go back to your cave Wilbur;).
Rob

Guess I'll go with Wilbur & Sam when it comes to M&T.
I'm tall but my knuckles don't drag yet, some more mallet swinging might stretch them out enough to hit the cave floor? BTW, my cave only has single phase.
Pocket screws I do use for carcase construction as they're fast as sin.
Biscuits have mostly been replaced by the pocket screws....
I use dowels, but more for an accent than actual joinery.

I'm guessing Rob just needs a little push to pull the trigger on a domino & CT vac?

Greg

[Wilbur Pan]

Go back to your cave Wilbur;).

Rob

Ugh, ugh. My cave does have 120V in it -- I did say drill press, after all. ;)

I've found that cutting mortises by hand has a big advantage over powered methods when [1] you're putting a mortise on an edge, since you don't have to figure out how to make the router balance on the narrow edge, and [b] if the mortise is going to be close to the edge of the board.

Of course, a horizontal mortiser makes life easier for the above situations as well.

[Wilbur Pan]

You forgot a simple butt joint.:D

Isn't a butt joint really a mortise and tenon joint, but with a really really really shallow mortise and a really really really short tenon? ;)

[Kevin L. Pauba]

... Some will say you can't do a large M&T but It can do multiple which creates more surface area. ...

I've been told that the strength in the M&T is due to the surface area of the cheeks. How, then, can multiple Domino's be more surface area than a traditional M&T? Also, can't a traditional M&T be made deeper (when required) ... yielding more surface area?

This is probably splitting hairs since, for most applications, one or two Domino's are more than adequate (strength-wise) anyway.

[Peter Quinn]

Really depends on the work at hand for me. I consider kitchen cabinets to be the woodworking equivalent of tennis shoes, so any method that holds them together is fine by me. I've used biscuits, pocket holes, screws and glue, dowels, even duck tape once (oh. no, that was my tennis shoes)! The framing of the house is bearing most of the weight anyway.

When I rebuilt the mud sill on the basement entrance of my old house to accept new wooden bilco doors I used a hammer and chisel to chop the mortises. Not going to trust pocket screws there (do they make 6" pocket hole screws?)

When I made carriage house doors for the garage I used dowels because I need them to last about 5 years till I rebuild that structure, and thats about how long I give a dowel door in the weather. They were 5 1/2" X 1/2" spiral maple dowels, not those little short ones, but still at 2-3 per intersection, my hopes aren't high and my experience says no bueno para mucho tiempo. The next set will be true M&T as they will be the last set.

I've been making storm windows for a restoration project and on those its loose tennons. I've been using the router and simple jig, just ordered a slot mortiser to speed it up a bit (and quiet things down). Something about glass hanging 45' in the air in a frame held together with screws or dowels I just don't like, but integral mortises would have pushed the bid for the job beyond acceptable fiscal tolerances. Those loose tenons go pretty quick.

Guys who do period reproduction furniture seem to have to use period joinery or its not really authentic. If I purchased a high end reproduction furniture commission and found the shop using dominoes I'd be pissed.

What I'm saying is there is room for all these systems of joinery and more in the wide world of wood, so I can't pick one without knowing the other variables.

[Bill Wyko]

I've been told that the strength in the M&T is due to the surface area of the cheeks. How, then, can multiple Domino's be more surface area than a traditional M&T? Also, can't a traditional M&T be made deeper (when required) ... yielding more surface area?

This is probably splitting hairs since, for most applications, one or two Domino's are more than adequate (strength-wise) anyway.
You get more surface area because multiple dominoes have the long and wide surfaces where a larger tenon will only have its long and wide surface once. :confused: Easier explanation, more Domino's= more surface area with glue.:D You can also use one domino tight as a reference and the rest loose. The Domino comes with reference pins so you can make your first mortise then use the pins or the adjustable reference setup to make the rest of your mortises w/o even drawing a line. :)

[Al Navas]

[quote=Rob Will;821072]...Al, I'm not familiar with that Leigh jig (?)..../quote]

I hope nobody will mind if I put in here the direct link to the Leigh Industries' FMT (Frame Mortise & Tenon Jig): http://www.leighjigs.com/fmt.php . You will also notice the link to a short video, at the bottom-right-hand corner of the FMT image.

Thanks!


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[Don C Peterson]

blink...blink... he squints at the sun after crawling out from his cave and mutters "You'll never find a machine that is as versitile as a good set of chisels and a mallet" in a barely understandable gutteral dialect. Then he quickly retreats to the safety and quiet of his self imposed prison just in time to avoid the slings and arrows of his electron burning cousins...

[Greg Cole]

Hey Don,
Don't forget the kerosene for the torch lamps on the way.
Sam, Wibur and I all agree it's getting kinda dark....
Ok, I need to find something else to do to pass the time today....:rolleyes:

Cheers.
Greg

[Bill Wyko]

I can tell those of you that have not used a Domino.:DJK

[Peter Quadarella]

I voted Pocket Screws and Domino. I won't be buying any other dedicated mortising jigs or machines. If I need to make a special sized one, I will use router/drill press/hand methods.

[Billy Chambless]

You're missing two useful options.

1. Mortise chisel and mallet.
2. Drill press and chisels to pare the sides.


Along with plunge routed mortise w/sawed (or routed) tenon. I didn't find ANYTHING I could check. :(

[Jerry White]

You might have overlooked Leigh's FMT in the choices.


Rob, the absence of the FMT as a choice is why I had a vote in the "Other" category.

[Jason King]

Chisel and mallet, or drill press chisel and mallet.

Then again, I don't do this for a living, so speed isn't that important to me.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

slot mortiser~!!

Often enough using conventional tenons.

I have the ability to clamp fixtures to my table which is great for goofy angles and weird shapes like you have on chairs.

I'm considering a way to convert my old table saw (which I don't use any more) into a double blade tenon cutter.

[Rob Will]

I'm guessing Rob just needs a little push to pull the trigger on a domino & CT vac? Greg

I'm busted (in more ways than one :o).
I ordered a Laguna horizontal slot mortiser and then went to Woodcraft and bought a Domino combo kit with a CT 22 vac. Yep, two in the same day (teeter, faint, thud) It looks like I'm committed to loose tenons huh?

If nothing else, I feel that my kids can be more involved with this loose tenon approach - as opposed to cutting tenons on a table saw.

I sold my Maka oscillating chisel mortiser. It was a good machine but my gut feeling is that the slot mortisers will be better for me right now.

Now I may have to live in a cave to pay for this stuff.:o:D

Thanks,
Rob

[Bob Genovesi]

I like my hollow chisel mortiser. I use my tenioning jig on my table saw to cut the tenons to fit the mortises perfectly. I'd love to have the Festool Domino machine but right now it's just a we bit pricey for my blood...

1. Hollow Chisel Mortiser
2. Biscuit Jointer
3. Kreg Pocket Jointer

[J. Z. Guest]

Interesting that the humble pocket screw joinery is in the lead, even though it isn't even a M&T?

Not good for everything, but damned versatile nevertheless.

[Brian Kent]

"Ray Iles Mortise chisels", said he, with no sense of shame whatsoever!

[Matt Bickford]

I guess that you're not that much of an advocate for renewable fuel if you won't even consider something that doesn't consume electricity.

[Mike Cutler]

Hollow Chisel Mortiser for me.
The M&T joint has been in use for centuries, upon centuries and had proven the test of time. There's nothing new to learn about them that hasn't been learned already.

Wilbur.
You'll need to make some room in the cave for me, my chisels, the mallet and my shoulder plane. I'll bring the beeswax candles.:D,;)

[Rob Will]

I guess that you're not that much of an advocate for renewable fuel if you won't even consider something that doesn't consume electricity.

My wife has to pedal the on-site generator anytime I work in the shop.

Rob

[Rob Will]

Really depends on the work at hand for me. I consider kitchen cabinets to be the woodworking equivalent of tennis shoes, so any method that holds them together is fine by me. I've used biscuits, pocket holes, screws and glue, dowels, even duck tape once (oh. no, that was my tennis shoes)! The framing of the house is bearing most of the weight anyway.

When I rebuilt the mud sill on the basement entrance of my old house to accept new wooden bilco doors I used a hammer and chisel to chop the mortises. Not going to trust pocket screws there (do they make 6" pocket hole screws?)

When I made carriage house doors for the garage I used dowels because I need them to last about 5 years till I rebuild that structure, and thats about how long I give a dowel door in the weather. They were 5 1/2" X 1/2" spiral maple dowels, not those little short ones, but still at 2-3 per intersection, my hopes aren't high and my experience says no bueno para mucho tiempo. The next set will be true M&T as they will be the last set.

I've been making storm windows for a restoration project and on those its loose tennons. I've been using the router and simple jig, just ordered a slot mortiser to speed it up a bit (and quiet things down). Something about glass hanging 45' in the air in a frame held together with screws or dowels I just don't like, but integral mortises would have pushed the bid for the job beyond acceptable fiscal tolerances. Those loose tenons go pretty quick.

Guys who do period reproduction furniture seem to have to use period joinery or its not really authentic. If I purchased a high end reproduction furniture commission and found the shop using dominoes I'd be pissed.

What I'm saying is there is room for all these systems of joinery and more in the wide world of wood, so I can't pick one without knowing the other variables.

Very interesting post Peter, thanks for the details and insight.

Rob

[maurice charitat]

I'm fairly new to woodworking (3 months) and I'm trying to build an end table. I cut my first 2 mortises by hand with a chisel yesterday and it took almost 2 hours. I brought the legs to a friend's house and in 10 minutes we had done 6 more with a drill press. I'm all for learning the old ways and respect them but a domino is in the cards for me:o
Maurice