General 650 w/ Riving Knife

[Dan Lautner]

Has anyone seen it in person yet? How is the Riving knife implemented with the trunions.I have been waiting for this saw and just want to make sure they did it right before ordering.

Dan

[Mark Carlson]

Hi Dan,

I see your in LA. Eagle Tools is a General distributor in LA. I bought my 650 from them. Give them a call and ask if they have the version with the riving knife you can look at.

I'm very interested to hear if the riving knife can be retrofitted onto an older machine.

http://www.eagle-tools.com/

~mark

[Dan Lautner]

Yes Eagle tools is very close. Jesse told me that a retrofit will be available from General. How do you like your saw? Would you buy it again? It is now between the General 650 and the Jet for me.

Dan

[Mark Carlson]

You can't go wrong buying a General 350/650. Even more so now that they come with a riving knife. I love mine and will get the riving knife if available. I just need to figure out a way of hooking a shark guard to the riving knife for dust collection.

If I was in the market today for a cabinet saw it would between a General or a Sawstop. I would also look at european slider type saws like the Minimax or Felder.

~mark

[Scot Ferraro]

I have a General 350 I bought from Eagle a few years ago and it has been flawless since I brought it home -- if I can get a retrofitted riving knife, so much the better, although the standard gaurd is pretty good and easy to take on and off with no alignment issues of any kind. I would not hesitate to buy this saw again. When I get more shop room someday I will consider adding a slider to my mix for straightline ripping, but that will be several years down the road. I cannot imagine parting with my General, though and I do not think you will be disappointed.

Scot

[Scot Ferraro]

I sent an email to General asking about availability and retrofit kits and I also called Eagle tools -- Raul is going to contact General tomorrow and get back to me and I will post what I find. He did say that General has a tendancy to advertise well in advance of making the tools available -- the Hover pad was an example that he used -- this has been "out" for the last year to year and a half and he said that they just started getting them in stock about 4-5 months ago. So, even if they are available or will soon be available my guess is that it might be some time before they show up on store shelves. Who knows, maybe we will get lucky on this and they will reach the public sooner.

Scot

[Vince Shriver]

I was at Eagle Tools today. Jesse gave me a demo of the Aggazzini Band Saw (cut a very thin veneer piece of oak), and Raul gave me the 411 on the Saw Stop and General Table Saw. I walked out with about $400 in tools and very happy. These guys are great, and very knowledgeable. They have a separate room dedicated to nothing but Festools; awesome shop. If you get a chance, stop in - nice folks, great selection, good prices. What's not to like!

[Narayan Nayar]

Jesse and Raul are great. I just bought my Agazzani from Eagle Tools and everything went flawlessly. If I ever need anything for my General 650 they'll be the first folks I call.

A diving knife would be a great addition to the 650 but I'm really happy with my Shark Guard.

[Zach Hanna]

I have some reliable information that the new 650 will be in production in late April, and delivered to distributors in mid to late May. A retrofit kit should follow shortly thereafter. No info on pricing.

[Scot Ferraro]

Dear Mr. Ferraro,
Thank you for your inquiry, kind words, and most of all for choosing General!

Production tooling has begun to produce the new 650R saw later this spring with a tentative target of late May for shipping to stores. The 350R will be about 4-6 weeks later. I’m sorry for the confusion caused by this information appearing prematurely on our website. This is a clerical error that will be corrected first thing Monday morning. We will put this information back up on site (and with a little bit more fanfare) at a more appropriate time.

As a second stage to this project, we are planning to develop retro-fit kits for both the 350 and 650. Unfortunately it is still too early to be able offer you definitive availability date or pricing for the retro-fit kits.

Your local dealer will be kept advised and should be able to let you know when the kit is available.



Right after I received the email Raul called me back from Eagle. He said that the list price on the retrofit kit will be $795 -- apparently there will be 4-5 componenets that will need to be changed including a new arbor, riving knife mechanism, blade guard and a change in dust shroud under the blade in the cabinet. These are slated to be available sometime in June/July (of course these dates can vary). He also told me that once the product is available and he knows what his cost will be that he might be able to work out a discount of some kind for volume orders.

The saws in stock have the old system, the new ones will be available in a few months with the new system.
Thanks!
Scot

[Keith Beck]

Ouch, $800 for a retro kit! I'm going to have to think long and hard before I shell out that kind of money to retrofit my 20 year old saw. For the small number of times I've had to remove my homemade splitter to do bevel cuts and non thru-cuts, I'm not sure it's worth it.

Keith

[Dan Owen]

My advice would be to purchase a General 350/650 before May 31st and worry about the riving knife later. I would anticipate a substantial price increase in all their equipment after their Spring Promo ends at the end of May. I hate to see what the price will be for the new 650R. I'm picking up a new 350 for 2499.00 on Tuesday and I can live with the stock splitter. I can remove and install it in less than a minute. Anyway, that is my .02 worth.

[Mike Gabbay]

My 650 should be in to my dealer today or Monday so I'm going to only tell how much I really love it without the riving knife! :D

Actually, I had extensive conversations with PM/Jet dealers and the General rep (Joe B.) at the last WW show. All in all I really like using the guard, it keeps my flesh away from the blade (a good thing). I am planning on making a minor modification and installing quick relase bolts so I can remove the guard without a wrench.

I would also expect to see a price increase due to the cost of fuel and the Canadian/US dollar exchange rate.

[Scot Ferraro]

The standard splitter on my saw is really not that bad to use -- I cut a slot in the aluminum on the back and now it is quick release -- literally a 15 second job to take it off for non-through cuts. It goes back on just as fast and is in perfect alignment. I agree that $800 is kind of steep, but given that there are some pretty heavy-duty components getting swapped out I guess it makes sense. It might not be for everyone, but the extra safety of always having the riving knife in place might be worth it, especially if it helps prevent a nasty kick-back. At least we have some definitive word on the retro-kit and on the new saws to help folks with their purchase.

One thing to note is that the existing models might actually go on sale when the new saws ship since they will have the old style guard -- something that prospective buyers might want to consider -- if the new guard is not important to you, then you might be able to pick up the saw for a lesser cost (or may the same cost as today since they will likely increase it in May/June):rolleyes:!

I love my saw today with the present system and if I decide to upgrade it or change it, I am sure that my sentiments will not change.

Scot

[Dan Lautner]

"I hate to see what the price will be for the new 650R"

If they go higher than $2,800 USD I think they will have priced themselves out of the market.

Dan

[Dan Owen]

My guess is that the current stock of 350/650 may remain at or near the current pricing until gone, but the new saws equipped with the euro riving knives will see a sustantial increase and I'm guessing well into the $3000s. In my opinion, the quality and craftsmanship of the saw is to highly regarded to base a buying decision soley on the riving knife option.

[Mel Gallardo]

Hello there,

First time posting. I just took delivery of a General 650R 5hp. My goodness! what an amazing saw! I have never been intimidated by a piece of machinery, particularly when you start it up; there is sort of a thunder coming out of the cabinet!. before I purchased it, it compared it to the unisaw, Sawstop, GI's and Powermatic. The fit, finish, power and precision is definitely (IMHO) above its competition.

I have a Laguna 16HD bandsaw and a Minimax 14" elite jointer/planer combo. The reason I mention these two, is that I was led to believe that if you wanted quality, you would have to go European, and if you wanted a basic machine, your options were mainly Chinese. Well... North American craftsmanship is still alive and well in this saw!
I will be posting pictures of this incredible saw. I just wanted to post this because I've been reading your posts for about 5 years and your comments have always been very helpful. And for that I thank you.


Question:In the past, I have used a thing kerf Freud saw blade on my contractor's table saw, mainly because a full kerf saw blade would bog down and/or trip my breaker when ripping hardwoods. I am about to buy a new saw blade ( Forrest) for my green beauty. I have read I should stick with a full kerf saw blade since my table saw is 5hp, it should not bog down, and the saw blade will not deflect as easily as a think kerf blade.

Comments will be fully appreciated!


Thanks,


Mel Gallardo

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mel, great saw, but 5HP, I guess the Binford 1000 was out of stock?

I have the 3HP General 650, non riving knife, and I don't use thin kerf blades.

I've found that the saw produces smoother cuts using a full width blade, and at 5 HP you'll be able to rip anything at a fast enough speed for best performance.

I added an Excalibur overarm guard to mine so that I could use a guard for non through cuts, and have dust collection.

Have fun sawing..........regards, Rod.

[Mel Gallardo]

Thank you Rod,

5hp... I think it was the short-man complex kicking in. I probably will never need the 2 extra ponies, but I found my contractor's table saw a bit dangerous due to its lack of power. I figure it would only cost me $200 extra amortized in a 20 year span. I definitely did not want spend $3000 and still be concerned with the power of the saw.

BTW. I did the electrical wiring myself, but I first consulted with 3 people: two of whom happen to be good friends ( a certified electrician and a electrical engineer) and the third was an electrical technician for General. They all told me to use a 30 amp breaker with a 10/3 cable. I bring this up because if you read the manual, General recommends 20 amp and 12/3 cable.


I wonder if anyone out there has a different opinion on this matter.


Thanks,


Mel

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mel, on my saw (3HP) the motor is 12.5 amperes, so I used a 15 ampere breaker.

The rule for continuous loads is that the breaker must be 125% of the load rating, so in my case it works out to 15.6 amperes.

I never approach full load on a continuous basis, and may not even approach it at peak loads.

What's the full load rating of your 5 HP motor, about 20 amperes?

A 20 A breaker would carry the saw no problem in a home shop, how would you ever use 5HP, put the blade in backwards and use a feeder?

I wouldn't hesitate to use a 20A breaker if it will start the saw (which it should).

Regards, Rod.

[Mel Gallardo]

Thank you Rod,

Thank you for your input. I believe my table saw's motor full load rating is 19.5 amperes. All three of my contacts did tell me that under normal conditions, a 20 amp breaker would be sufficient, but 30 amp would be more "appropriate" to the size of the motor. BTW, my Laguna bandsaw has a 4.8 hp Baldor, which I believe is the same as my table saw. They recommend a 30 amp breaker. The only Baldor motor in my shop requiring a 20 ampere breaker is my 3 hp Oneida Gorilla DC system.


Question: in your experience, does the excalibur collect dust proficiently? In other words: are you happy with it?

Thanks,


Mel

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mel. I'm very happy with the dust collection when the entire guard has material under it.

For example when cutting sheet goods, the workpiece is large enough that the guard is fully "sealed" against the wood, and the dust collection is excellent.

When cutting small pieces, parts of the guard aren't as well sealed and some dust can come out.

It however is an order of magnitude better than stock guards, and importantly, the guard can be used when grooving or dadoing.

regards, Rod.

[John Ricci]

Mel, big congrats on the new saw. I took delivery of my 650R in the summer and although I bought the 3hp version it has never shown me a lack of power yet. With a Freud P410 Fusion blade that sucker vapourises 8/4 maple as quickly as I dare feed it through:cool:...a saw to last a lifetime and then someone elses after I'm gone.

I wired mine with 12/3 cabtire and a 20a twistlock plug and have it on a 20a circuit. Your friends are correct that with the 5hp a 30a circuit and 10/3 wire might be better but I doubt you will ever push it hard enough to need it. BTW one addition that I have found to be a big help was to make a ZCI for it. Have fun, be safe and get us some pics or it didn't happen:D

J.R.