LN Cabinet Maker Scraper Plane

[Will Blick]

I just bought this plane....never used a scraper plane before... I was experimenting on a Maple board edge. The blade seemed sharp enough, so I did not hone it.... the plane works, produces nice scraper dust / shavings, but it does not leave the surface as smooth as my BU LV Planes. I bought this for difficult woods.... but am curious, shouldn't it leave the surface nicer for all woods vs. Bench or Block planes?

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/images/85_sm.jpg

[Michael Faurot]

I bought this for difficult woods.... but am curious, shouldn't it leave the surface nicer for all woods vs. Bench or Block planes?


I don't own that scraper plane, but the one made by Lee Valley. My experience has been the surface finish left seems to depend on the species of wood. Sometimes it'll take a nice thin shaving, but it'll leave a slightly rough surface. I noticed this on some bubinga, where the surface was a little rough, but without any tearout. When I use it on other species, it seems to leave a smooth finish.

You might try experimenting with different angles of the scraper and see if that changes things.

[Will Blick]

Michael, interesting.... I tried it on Walnut, Purpleheart.... not very impressed with either.

I wish I had some burl, I assume woods with difficult figure such as Burl this plane would earn its wings. I too have the LV scraper plane, and I am impressed with its ability to leave a smooth surface vs. this LN Scraper plane.... maybe I am missing something...

I thought the LN scraper planes thick blade would have better command over the shavings, i.e. less chatter = cleaner cut? .... but so far that has not been the case...

Hopefully some highly experienced plane users will ring in.... it might be my expectations were too high...

[Jason King]

I am certainly no expert, but here goes...

A planed surface will "always" produce a better surface than a scraped surface if we don't take tearout into account.

A scraped surface will eliminate tearout, but will not give quite as crisp of a surface as a planed surface.


This isn't to say that some woods don't look good scraped, or that an excellent scraper can't produce a great finish, it can....

However, generally speaking, planed is better than scraped, but if tearout is an issue, scraped is the only way to go.

[Will Blick]

Jason, thanks for being the "voice of reason" :-).

I think you are right... scraper planes, IIRC, are primarily used on woods whereas a normal plane would produce tear-out. So they have a unique application... I understand that....but for some reason, I thought since the plane is so nice, it should produce a nice clean surface on any wood, and so far I am not seeing that. However, my LV Scaper does a much better job, albeit, still not as nice as my LV BU planes, which will spoil ANYONE!! A scary sharp blade in a LV BU is one of the joys of ww IMO. :D

I guess, this is a case of....too much expectations...

[Alex Yeilding]

I was experimenting on a Maple board edge.
Try working a flat surface rather than an edge. Might be easier to get a feel for it.


The blade seemed sharp enough, so I did not hone it....
Gotta suspect that is part of the problem. Did you turn a burr on it? I know one owner of that scraper plane who feels he gets a better surface with a burr. I don't have the tool in question, but get better results without a burr on my Stanley #80. Try it both ways to see what works for you.


I just bought this plane....never used a scraper plane before...

I too have the LV scraper plane, and I am impressed with its ability to leave a smooth surface vs. this LN Scraper plane.... maybe I am missing something...

Maybe I'm missing something. You have never used a scraper plane before, and bought TWO of them, one LV and one L-N?! Must be nice...

[Will Blick]

From LN web site....

We recommend that you hone the blade to a sharp edge like a plane blade, and do not use a burr (at least until you get used to using the tool). We have found that, with a 45° bevel on the blade, our thick scraper blades sharpen more easily and produce a better surface. Slightly round the corners of the blade with a stone to prevent them from marking the work.

I might try a burr on it.... but for that, I would just assume use a hand scraper.... I will experiment some more, specially with different surfaces....

Alex.... I do use hand scrapers, and thought the scraper planes would make life easier. I wanted a large scraper plane and a smaller one to fit in tighter places on smaller boards. So for the larger one, I bought the LV Scraper a few days ago, pretty happy with it... then I got the LN small cabinet scraper plane today.... different plane design.... maybe thats why I gotta get used to the different feel... I honed the blade to 8000, not much improvement... again, it works, but just not as nice as the LV.

The LV allows a bow in the blade (much thinner blade of course)... and it can be slightly angled. Maybe these features make for a better scraper plane? i.e. vs. a traditional flat thick blade?

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p2901-dsp.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

I just use an old plane blade with no life left and put a burr on it.

Seems to work for those times scraping is the only answer.

jim

[Alex Yeilding]

From LN web site....

We recommend that you hone the blade to a sharp edge like a plane blade, and do not use a burr (at least until you get used to using the tool). We have found that, with a 45° bevel on the blade, our thick scraper blades sharpen more easily and produce a better surface.

That's consistent with what I have found to work best in my #80. But as I said, I have a friend who has had the opposite experience (on ribbon mahogany). So it might be worth a try.

Good luck. The nice thing about dealing with folks like LV and L-N is that they will help you make their products work right, and failing that, will probably refund your money.

[Michael Faurot]

Michael, interesting.... I tried it on Walnut, Purpleheart.... not very impressed with either.


That reminds me. I did some purpleheart with my Lee Valley scraper plane awhile back and it left both a smooth surface and did so with no tear out. At the time, I couldn't get any of my other planes to do anything with the purpleheart without tear out. So at least with the LV scraper plane and the right species--you can get a smooth finish.

I just took another look at the picture of your Lie-Nielsen scraper plane and it looks like the angle of the scraper blade is fixed, unlike the LV plane where it can altered. Sorry, I didn't realize that when I had suggested trying different angles.

[Will Blick]

Alex, I agree, both are great companies.....

I am getting the impression the LV scraper with its versatility of angle and bow, combined with the thin edge on the blade, makes for a better scraper plane.... sometimes you have to tweak it for a given wood, but you have no options with the LN.

[Michael Fross]

Alex, I agree, both are great companies.....

I am getting the impression the LV scraper with its versatility of angle and bow, combined with the thin edge on the blade, makes for a better scraper plane.... sometimes you have to tweak it for a given wood, but you have no options with the LN.

Well, LN has two scrapper planes. A large one that is much like the LV, adjustable angles, larger bottom, etc. The one above is a bit more of a speciality item. It can go flush to corners, is smaller, and has a fixed blade.

LN Scrapping Plane Lineup:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=508

Michael

[Rye Crane]

Hi Will,

I would suggest you call Denab at Lie-Nielsen 800-327-2520. He used to do the demo's at the ww shows around the country and now Denab is working the sales order desk.

He has helped me several times, tuning their planes. I hope he will give you some insights.

Good Luck,
Rye Crane

[Will Blick]

spoke to LN...very nice... they suggested reading FW Dec 07 issue, article on scraper planes.... then, if I don't want them, I can return them to LN for exchange for other planes.... nice to see a company stand behind their products...

Of course, LN suggested blade prep is everything and it seems a burnished blade is really required, despite what their instructions said...

I will report back....

[Don C Peterson]

then, if I don't want them, I can return them to LN for exchange for other planes.... nice to see a company stand behind their products...

I will report back....

That is one of the big reasons that I never hesitate to recommend LN. They are always willing to help and do whatever is required to make sure you are happy with the purchase. Despite the sticker shock that some us have, LN works very hard to deliver a good value to their customers.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

[Quesne Ouaques]

Of course, LN suggested blade prep is everything and it seems a burnished blade is really required, despite what their instructions said...

I will report back....

I was shopping for several planes a few months ago, and I spoke at length with the LN folks at the Somerset NJ show. One of the planes I was looking at was the Cabinetmaker's Scraper.

The gentleman who spoke with me stressed that the scraper blades did not ship ready for cutting. I'm not sure if you did burnish the blade before using it, but I think that could make all the difference based on what I was told.

It looked like a really exceptional tool, and I hope to own one some day soon when the budget will allow. BTW, LV has the same policy w/r/t scraper blades. You need to burnish them yourself before they are ready for use.

[Mike Cutler]

spoke to LN...very nice... they suggested reading FW Dec 07 issue, article on scraper planes.... then, if I don't want them, I can return them to LN for exchange for other planes.... nice to see a company stand behind their products...

Of course, LN suggested blade prep is everything and it seems a burnished blade is really required, despite what their instructions said...

I will report back....

Actually Will, and not to split hairs here, they recommend learning to use it as is before you apply the burnished edge.
Once that burnished edge is applied you will find that you have a whole different tool in your hand. It will require a very deft touch in the beginning. With the edge burnished,You have enough leverage with the plane to make some very aggressive cuts.( Read as mess up some wood if you're not careful)
I have the same plane that you just bought. It takes a little bit to learn to use it to it's full potential. I'm still trying to get the hang of it.

[Doug Shepard]

.... Did you turn a burr on it? I know one owner of that scraper plane who feels he gets a better surface with a burr. I don't have the tool in question, but get better results without a burr on my Stanley #80. Try it both ways to see what works for you.
....


I also have both the LV scraper and #80 and agree. Unless I get a burr on it, I'm just making dust and not the fluffly little shavings that leave a finished looking surface.

I'd also recommend taking the blade out and making a few passes with it by hand to get a feel for how much of an angle you need with that particular burr to get shavings. It will help you figure out how to adjust the angle on the scraper plane and help you better judge what angle to use with the burnisher when you create the burr.

[Will Blick]

Good advise guys, thanks....

Since I am happy with the results from the LV Scraper Plane, I will stay with that one. IMO, I think LV Scraper Plane with its thin blade and adjustable angles and bow is a more flexible design, giving the best chance for success. I am sure many of the hand-tool pros could do well with either plane, but in my case, the LV Scraper Plane will cover 90%+ of my needs...

I bought the plane from

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/

They are a great small vendor.... they seem to always have everything in stock, very helpful, ship FAST, package everything very well, the owner will talk to you direct...... I did not feel comfortable returning the plane to them, even though they have a 30 money back policy... (they don't make enough margin on these products to accept returns that must be sold as used, or demo'd, just my opinion)


So since LN offered to take back any plane on exchange, I took em up on their offer and will exchange it for the 98/99 side rabet planes. It's a joy dealing with makers / vendors that offer such superb customer service!