Pinnacle ZX (GCC Explorer) laser replacement cost?

[James Fillmore]

Has anyone here actually had to replace thier laser outside warrenty and how much did it cost?

I have a ULS laser at the office and when the engraving gets bad and I have to slow the machine down it's time for a $1000 recharge of the 25W Synrad. Luckily ULS swaps the tube using FedEx so I'm only down for an hour while swapping.

I bought a Pinnacle ZX (GCC Explorer) for my side business and it needs a laser recharge. Think the tech said IF I need my laser "repaired" it would be weeks. UGH. So looks like I'll have to buy a laser and then send mine in for "repair".

[Robert Ray]

I recently called GCC and asked how much it would cost to repair a laser, and the salesman said it could take a couple weeks. I finally got ahold of my local Laserpro rep and he said that cost depends on what all they need to do, weather just a gas change or up to replacing and aligning cavity mirrors, $800-2000 typical range for my 35 watt. It was not clear, but from the tone I suspect they send the tubes out for repair.

I have 2 Laserpro systems, and am looking for a new laser, but the more I research the more it's looking like an Epilog or Universal system is in my future, as i cannot afford downtime anymore.

Leaning towards the Mini 24 now. I wish they had a lens nozzle and some covering over their optics though.

[Rodne Gold]

The GCC explorer uses either a Synrad or Coherent DEOS , and if we in the tip of Africa have a repair facility and can get a swap out overnight or at worst a 2-3 day repair, I dont see how it is possible that in the mighty USA where these tubes are made it can be "weeks".................
Repairs or "swap outs" cost us round $1000.
How do you know your laser needs a recharge?
It might be a RF board blown or something else , what's it doing?

[Mike Null]

Rodney

The delay has to do with the manufacturer of the laser rather than the tube manufacturer.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Guys;
Talk to your Laserpro rep again- I can get a tube overnighted to me- it depends on how much your rep wants to work the system. As Rodne says, tough to believe that we get worse GCC rep service here in the States than he does down in SA. Again. a lot of times it's not the tube but the RF section. I suggest pushing your rep to the max.
Best regards;
George
LaserArts
60watt Mercury

[Rodne Gold]

What do you need the manufacturer for if its out of warrantee? There's nothing special about the tubes the Explorer uses, any Laser repair facility (like the one here) can fix em . For us, its a straight bolt out bolt in operation. Deal direct with the tube mnfgrs if there isnt a repair facility. Most tube repairs arent actually on the spot repairs , just a replacement from a "pool" of previously repaired tubes and yours , when repaired , goes back into the pool.
Even our agent's , when they had to ship tubes to us from Taiwan, never took longer then 4 days to fly one out here and exchange (mostly they kept a stock of tubes and this happened only once)
However , I must say , I had INCREDIBLE problems with coherent tubes failing in my Explorers , synrads in my mercurys and the ones in my spirits have been very reliable. (I think i had 12 tube swaps in my Explorers over their warantee period)

[James Fillmore]

JUST received the Synrad Laser Wizard power meter that I rented from Laserbits (too bad MY rep didn't offer to rent me one). 4.5WATTS!!!!! THAT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN. 2 years old and 4.5W. THEN they tell me WEEKS to get a new one cause they have to send mine in. WISH they would have informed me when I purchased the unit. It's a fine unit mechanically but getting ANY parts except for lenses and mirrors takes weeks! I needed a gas strut that holds the door open. WEEKS they told me. I instead found some that fit at Grainger and took ONE day to get.

Did I mention 2-6 weeks and $1-2000 to recharge my laser? I need one NOW. Wonder how much to get a new one NOW! IF they can even get one without having to go back to China. I'm DOWN.

NICE!

[Rodne Gold]

I would get hold of synrad in this regard. They must have a better turnaround or a core exchange system or can recommend a local repair facility. The tube does not have to go to china, and if it does m its total idiocy as its fixable in the uS

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Rodney
I have a GCC Explorer 50 watt.
I am in canada.
I have been having a lot of problems with with my "Z" table travel for a long time and the dealer has not been able to diagnose it properly as yet. I have been bringing it to his attention for almost a year now (since june 2007) and am now out of warranty and still without a solution.
The problem is as follows;

Most of the time I cannot Autofocus, the Z motor jams when the autofocus plunger touches the table, making a continuous grinding noise.

Sometimes i can move the table up or down but mostly it jams, making that funny noise continuously. I have to shut the machine to stop it.

Sometimes when I press the up or down "Z" table button, the table keeps on moving even after the button is released.The machine has to be shut down to stop it.

All the hardware tests are positive, including the LCM key test and the LCM interface test.

The auto focus test does not yield any result.

The dealer has given me a list of possibibilities including the following:
Uneven "Z" table
Dirty table mounting bolts
faulty "Z" motor
Faulty delimiter switch
faulty autofocus plunger
Motherboard

I dont know what to believe.
Can you help.
It has gotten so bad now that I have to shut the machine down every time i have to focus and do the manually by pulling the serpentine belt.

By the way, it took GCC about 3 months to send me the gas plunges for the lid(warranty)

Abdul

[James Fillmore]

My table makes the same "grinding noise". It's really just the stepper motor not able to move. The Z axis stepper is a toy. I ONLY do the manual focus with the supplied metal distance rods because the auto focus is so unreliabe. I think the 30lb vector cutting plate doesn't help either. Think they coulda made that out of alum instead of STEEL? Sheesh.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

I really dont think it is the strength of the motor.(i have a servo).
My problems happen with no load on the table and also on the down travel direction as well. If the table was not aligned properly then the resistance offered could neuatralize the power of the "Z" motor but how do you explain the continuous motion of the table, up or down, even after releasing the button.
There is more to it.
Come on Rodne.
(pay close attention to what Rodne says. I'm sure it will help you with your issues as well)
abdul

[Rodne Gold]

The most likely problem is the limit switch which is a microswitch the table itself contacts (near top right of the frame for upper limit) when at its upper or lower level. let the table go down , as its going up , way before it contacts the upper microswitch , manually switch the microswitch , ie actuate it as tho the table had switched it. If the table does not stop instantly . its that. There is a bottom one as far as i know too, not too sure of where that is.
Its pretty easy to check the table level , the head moves by hand , adjust the table so the autofocus plunger is about a mm from touching the table , just move the head all around the table and see if the gap increases or decreases. The table lead screws can be greased with a lithium bearing grease , so you can eliminate that.

To test the AF probe , do the same as the limit switch but just push in the probe by hand before it contacts anything, table should stop and lower a bit.

Check the belts etc under the table to see nothing is jamming , take the Z motor out and check its not grinding or anything , I havent done this myself , dunno if it is a shaft encoder motor , if it is , see the encoder isnt dusty (im pretty sure its a stepper tho and not a servo motor , says stepper in my spirit maintenance manual) If the diagnostics pass the Z motor test , its unlikely to be the motor anyway.
Check all the wires from the limit switch and the AF probe that there are no loose connections , check em into the motherboard as well , that all connections are ok. I do remember having problems with the af cables or the ribbon cable from the flying head to the little pc board where the X motor is , check this too. it can partially crack. The little PC board culd be faulty as well.

No way to know whether the MB is faulty , only swapping out a new one will tell.

One problem the Explorers had was with the LCD display , this caused all sorts of problems with all sorts of systems on the machines, if yours seems dim or dimmer than when it was new , it can be that too. Thing is , the problems didnt seem related to the display but they were.

The explorer has a very lightweight ally honeycomb cutting table , dunno why yours is steel if you have an explorer. AF on the GCC machines is exceptionally accurate as the machine has a "autofocus tune" circuit that allows you to calibrate AF to the manual focus tool.


Thing is , if the problem pre existed the expiry of the warrantee and you complained about it at the time , the fact the warrantee is expired does not exonerate the agents from fixing it , if the agents give you problems in this regard , phone leonard chi in Taiwan and complain, this affects the machines functonality big time and is not a problem that one can live with or work around.
Your warrantee should be at least 18 months bumper to bumper , ours was 18months on source and 3 years in the machine.

sorry I cant be far more specific , I havent worked my lasers or been under the hood of the explorers for a while , my workshop manager and my laser operators do that and im not at work right now to check the machines myself.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Rodne
As always, you are a gem.
I will go through all the steps you have mentioned and let you know what happens.
abdul

[Angus Hines]

My table makes the same "grinding noise". It's really just the stepper motor not able to move. The Z axis stepper is a toy. I ONLY do the manual focus with the supplied metal distance rods because the auto focus is so unreliabe. I think the 30lb vector cutting plate doesn't help either. Think they coulda made that out of alum instead of STEEL? Sheesh.


Just throughly clean and re-lubricate the threaded lifting/lowering axels and the noise will magically go away.
:D

[Vicky Orsini]

My table makes the same "grinding noise". It's really just the stepper motor not able to move. The Z axis stepper is a toy. I ONLY do the manual focus with the supplied metal distance rods because the auto focus is so unreliabe. I think the 30lb vector cutting plate doesn't help either. Think they coulda made that out of alum instead of STEEL? Sheesh.
Our table makes a "shuddering" noise. I think it's the same as your grinding noise. We've attributed it to the machine being "cold" (i.e. not in use for a period). We just take it slowly, moving up a bit at a time until the rods "warm up". As for the auto focus, I've stopped using it all together. The wire for the autofocus runs in the channel behind the arm that the head runs on. As the head moves back and forth, the links in the channel that houses the AF wire fold and unfold. The result is that they chafe against the AF wire, eventually cutting it in half. Since it's inside the channel, you don't really notice it until one day when you go to use the AF and the table just keeps coming up. Not fun if you have a thicker piece of material in there, so that the material meets the head before the limit switch is tripped. :mad: Yup, had this happen once. That's why I never use the AF anymore. It's so easy to use the manual focus, it's actually quicker than the AF most of the time. Yes, we've replaced the wire twice for what was supposed to be a tougher model, but it has always wound up being cut by the channel that is supposed to protect it, so we've just given up on that feature. :rolleyes:

[Rodne Gold]

Run the wire outside the channel , the ribbon cable in the channel is also susceptible.
One good thing is that its easy to use the manual rod , cos you can just drag the head using the red dot pointer to where you want to engrave. Shuddering sounds more like one of the corners is out of alignment, check to see the table is level the way I described earlier.

[Mike Hood]

This may sound counter-intuitive, but the slipping Z-axis is actually caused by the belt being TOO tight. It needs to be sloppy loose.

Kevin Huffman quickly shipped me a replacement Z-Axis motor for mine... but it did the same thing... until I got the belt tension right. It slips right on the cog at the servo.

Loosen the belt, clean the screw shafts and watch it improve.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

Rodne
I have been following through with all the suggestions you made to diagnose the problem. i have still not been able to figure it out as another problem appeared and the dealers technician is coming in tommorow to fix it.
While initializing, for some unknown reason, the X-axis belt snapped.It broke cleanly close to the plate where it is attached to the lens carriage.I can find no obstruction in the movement of the lens carriage. Now, as the belt has fallen out, the machine will not initialize. However, I can still go into the hardware diagnostic mode and they are returning the same results.
The dealer has agreed that the Z table is a pre existing problem.
Lets see what happens tomorrow. Will keep you posted
(I could not replace the belt myself as I am told it requires the use of a special tension tool)
P.S
I am sure my table does not have a mechanical problem as at times it continues to move even after the "down" button is released

Abdul

[Rodne Gold]

The tension tool seems to be nonsense , we have replaced X axis motors and thus the belt and just made it nice and tight , had no hassles with em afterwards?
Why do they need a tension tool?
Iv'e heard of that before tho..........but for the Y axis
maybe they do..........

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

I guess they must have a very compelling reason (for the tension tool) as the cost of the belt is only $30 and it is going to cost me a total of $350, all told. I think we all should be in the repair business. My interest is also to let the technician come and fix the other problem. warranty only covers parts and not the labor.

abdul

[Don Sims]

I see people have good luck and bad luck finding replacement parts. My autofocus cable broke awhile back and I have been manually focusing since, but today my x motor self destructed and I need a replacement. where, who do I call for parts? Like everyone else, I need it and need it now!

Pinnacle Mercury